Pictures of Milliken Demo

[carolinasurface]

Here are some pics of a demo Milliken did for a church. I am going to have a shot at doing an encap demo next week. Do these look washed out to anyone else? Looks unnatural in my opinion - or is it simply wear?

The first two are the same. I wanted you to see the corners, where no one walks.

Any ammo as to why the powder they use is bad for the carpet would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Chris

 

[Brian R]

Kind of looks like there may have been a uniform residue on the carpet from a previous cleaning.

But yes, it looks like the carpet has been altered in the demo'd areas.....would have to see it in person as photos just don't give the entire picture.

 

[carolinasurface]

From my understanding, that carpet in the third picture has never been cleaned. I believe the carpet is 15 years old.

 

[Mark Imbesi]

....

 

[Brian R]

From my understanding, that carpet in the third picture has never been cleaned. I believe the carpet is 15 years old.

Uniform dirt?

Only way to tell is do a regular clean next to it.

 

[sweendogg]

Don't knock it down....

Take a BAGLESS VAcuum like a Bissel (the 46.00 version too boot to make it even better). And slowly vacuum those areas that were cleaned by the Milkin guys. If you have a crb or pile lifter do that first as well then slow vacuum and let the canister speak for itself. The Capture is an ok interim cleaning system meant for do it yourselfers. (I'm pretty sure the pro team is using the same thing). The dry powder granular its very hard to vacuum out completely, and if it you run bagged vacuums, its impossible to know when the powder is done being pulled up. And my guess is the pro guys are throwing this down extra heavy for a "deep cleaning" instead of the light sprinkle on top and brush in.

 

[Ryan]

Did this church by any chance have a lot of candles lit?

 

[The Great Oz]

If I were the carpet owner I'd be alarmed at that result. It looks like color loss.

Possible that Capture residue reflects a lot of light - just like encap residue. If the carpet owner is looking at this as the best end result you may not be successful at matching residue light reflection. It might be interesting to extract a line through the Capture and see if the carpet gets darker as you remove residue.

It is also possible that the carpet HAS been cleaned (your contact just doesn't know it) and quick n dirty bonnet cleaning did a great job of swishing soil everywhere evenly.

As far as Capture negatives, leaving powder residue is the biggest, but you'll be doing that with encap too. Capture used to be notorious for being sticky enough that the residue caused rapid resoiling and was so hard to remove that carpet had to be replaced, but I thinnk it likely that the formulation would have been changed to make this less likely.

 

[carolinasurface]

No candles in this church.

 

[sweendogg]

Here is their process:

http://www.millicare.com/commercial-car ... -care.aspx

Basically a brush and clean host style cleaning utilizing their "polymer" powder and their special prespray. If you really want to harp on them again, the bagless demo is important show you are removing more soil, And also depending on if you are running on a maintenance program or just a single clean. If you are pushing for a matenance program make sure you captilize on the importance of a periodic HWE. This is what seperates you as a trully professional cleaner who has embraced all methods of cleaning and knows when to use them vs. Millicare which is a one method company, that happens to use small portable for cleaning upholstery. So as a floor care expert, you can offer a full service and not simply a surface dusting.

 

[Scott Rogers]

I good thing about competing against them, Price. Capture isnt cheap so cost to do it on that job will be much higher then encapping or HWE.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Never seen Milliken but Millicare did a powder cleaning demo in a leasing office we do the janitorial in. They had dark maroon carpet. The floor was uneven and the powder would not scrub in or vac out well, it looked really splotchy. We hwe'd it but it wicked back. Our janitors didn't get it out until they had vacuumed about 100 times over 6 months

 

[harryhides]

The Capture powder is white in color and so any left over product that has not been removed will leave a "whiter"
"cleaner" looking carpet.

 

[carolinasurface]

Thanks guys. I can't wait to get my demo there next week. We will see how it goes. Hopefully I can vacuum up the left-behind powder to prove it!

Thanks, Chris

 

[Ron Werner]

pretty amazing if that is the "real" colour of the carpet. The carpet is very uniform in colour right into the corners. You could take a cloth with a spotter and take a swipe in the corner just to see what comes off.
That demo would sure make them want to clean the carpet.

If it did make the carpet whiter, hope your method can match it

 

[sweendogg]

As clear cut as that was, you know they have to tape all four sides just like the Host demo.

 

[carolinasurface]

Well, the church decided to let Millicare clean the church and foyer area without letting us demo. We will get to demo in one of their other buildings (top 2 pics).

We should be able to get this. Here is why:

I didn't see much problem (or difference) after they cleaned the church aisles. HOWEVER, the foyer area (3rd pic) looked NOTHING like the demo and it is extremely splotchy! They have a mess on their hands, in my opinion. I don't know what the administrator thought, but it is bad.

I guess it is hard to spread that powder evenly.

If I get a shot at correcting their mistake, what (if anything) can I do? vacuum real slow, then HWE? Could I encap over their cleaning without issues? (they are not a fan of using the HWE method for some reason)

Thanks!

Also, I did email the Millicare rep and he said prices range from .05 to .15 per sq.ft.!

 

[Ron Werner]

so its easy and more exacting doing the demo, but they don't use it that thoroughly when actually cleaning?

If its a powder cleaning, definitely run a vacuum over it.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

That is exactly what happened on my account that they demoed. A 3x3 covered in powder gives an amazing contrast, try to do it over hundreds or thousands of feet then you better have alot of powder.

 

[sweendogg]

While the CRI does not have a great Seal of approval program... they do have some of the best info on promoting HWE as a cleaning method. You may have to pull out all of the stops to correct their mess:

A pile lift to dig the capture out, a very thorough vacuum to remove as much dry soil as posible, followed by a very thorough HWE, post pad the carpet with an encap product and include cost of a return trip to post vacuum and perform an encap cleaning to elleviate the wicking.

And be prepared to charge for it. They are the ones who decided to hire a substandard method, they are the ones with the mess now, and you'll be the one that ends up trying to fix the problem. Don't let their problem become yours. Make sure they own their own problem and that any thing you can do is an attempt to not only fix their problem but try to capture the soil that was never removed in the first place.

 

[Ron Werner]

Amen David

 

[encapman]

Perhaps it's a Milliken carpet. Ifs it's a Milliken carpet - they REQUIRE that it gets serviced by Millicare. It's one of the more successful versions of the "Cradle to the Grave" concept. Milliken makes the carpet and they insist that only Millicare be used to clean it or they're on their own with the warranty.

We clean the floors and carpets for a company who has us clean all the carpet in their buildings except for one large room that has Milliken installed. We clean their entire LARGE complex, right up to the Milliken line (they use Millicare for that room only). They won't let us cross over the line and service that carpet, because they're afraid of affecting their warranty with Milliken. Even though they've LOVED our service in the rest of the building, we can't touch the Milliken carpet. Successful "fear-based marketing" by Milliken! This may be why the church opted for Milliken without giving you chance to do a demo.

 

[randy]

Perhaps it's a Milliken carpet. Ifs it's a Milliken carpet - they REQUIRE that it gets serviced by Millicare. It's one of the more successful versions of the "Cradle to the Grave" concept. Milliken makes the carpet and they insist that only Millicare be used to clean it or you they're on their own with the warranty.

We clean the floors and carpets for a company who has us clean all the carpet in their buildings except for one large room that has Milliken installed. We clean their entire LARGE complex, right up to the Milliken line (they use Millicare for that room only). They won't let us cross over the line and service that carpet, because they're afraid of affecting their warranty with Milliken. Even though they've LOVED our service in the rest of the building, we can't touch the Milliken carpet. Successful "fear-based marketing" by Milliken! This may be why the church opted for Milliken without giving you chance to do a demo.

Sooner or latter some property owner with Miliken carpet is going to sue Miliken for violation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act 15 USC 2301. This often ignored FEDERAL law specifically prohibits EXACTLY what Miliken is doing with their "cradle to grave" approach. Perhaps it's time for a bunch of cleaners to get together and pursue Miliken under U.S. Anti-trust laws as well, and put an fast end to this and other SOA style attacks on our FREE ENTERPRISE system.

 

[carolinasurface]

Did not think about that. It is Milliken carpet, but 15 years old at least. Not sure it would be under warranty anyway. This is the first time Millicare has cleaned it to my knowledge.