Jim Nelson
Member
What all is needed to pimp my tm and who has the parts? It has all 3 packages. thank you jim.
Pimp my butler
- Thread starter Jim Nelson
- Start date
Dolly Llama
Number 5
Jim Nelson said:
I believe that would be Greenie you need to talk to.
He be the dude with the big crushed velvet hat and zOOt suit
is it all stock now?
as in, you're running a live vac reel and 1.5" whip?
..L.T.A.
joe harper
Member
Hi JIM,
The only mod. you need is 2.5 inch hose.......And cool-cuff reducer/2.5 to 2 inch....
Buy 50ft. of 2.5 hose.....Disconect your live VAC. reel from the waste tank......
Then attach the 2.5 hose to the Waste tank .....(fits perfect).
YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE THE INCREASE IN VAC.YOU WILL GET!! (cut dry times in half)
Adjust your vac relief to at least 15HG....... (it is set from BUTLER 13HG)
Then take the THERMOSTAT out of the vehicle..( the increased AIR-FLOW with the 2.5
hose will cost you about 10 degrees in HEAT.) The blower BREATHS better & produces
LESS HEAT.
The 2.5 hose is BULKY... Cut 6ft off 2.5 hose ....& run it from the waste tank ....along
the floor..... beside the hose reel....out the side door....then hook to remaining 44 ft..
This is a much easier SET-UP...Rather than wrestling with the entire 50ft out of the
back door. Wrap the 44ft section up...bungee strap & hang on the LARGE hose hooks
provided on the fresh water tank.....
The only change to your set-up is......You no longer have the LIVE vac hose on the SYSTEM.
If you make LONG HOSE runs buy another 50ft. of 2.5 hose & a 2.5 cool-cuff connector...
Don't try to put the 2.5 hose on your HOSE REEL....Takes up too much space........
ps The 4007 blower in MACH 2 ....Now has the SUCK of a 5.9 blower on 2in. hose...
The only mod. you need is 2.5 inch hose.......And cool-cuff reducer/2.5 to 2 inch....
Buy 50ft. of 2.5 hose.....Disconect your live VAC. reel from the waste tank......
Then attach the 2.5 hose to the Waste tank .....(fits perfect).
YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE THE INCREASE IN VAC.YOU WILL GET!! (cut dry times in half)
Adjust your vac relief to at least 15HG....... (it is set from BUTLER 13HG)
Then take the THERMOSTAT out of the vehicle..( the increased AIR-FLOW with the 2.5
hose will cost you about 10 degrees in HEAT.) The blower BREATHS better & produces
LESS HEAT.
The 2.5 hose is BULKY... Cut 6ft off 2.5 hose ....& run it from the waste tank ....along
the floor..... beside the hose reel....out the side door....then hook to remaining 44 ft..
This is a much easier SET-UP...Rather than wrestling with the entire 50ft out of the
back door. Wrap the 44ft section up...bungee strap & hang on the LARGE hose hooks
provided on the fresh water tank.....
The only change to your set-up is......You no longer have the LIVE vac hose on the SYSTEM.
If you make LONG HOSE runs buy another 50ft. of 2.5 hose & a 2.5 cool-cuff connector...
Don't try to put the 2.5 hose on your HOSE REEL....Takes up too much space........
ps The 4007 blower in MACH 2 ....Now has the SUCK of a 5.9 blower on 2in. hose...
Applause for Joe!
After you pimp your vac, tehn address your wand, quite a bit of room there to make a tool better.
Which wand ya got?
I would like to add to Joe's vac hose capacity comments, if you don't have an elec. reel, and you are just running around knocking out 100' hose runs, you can do jsut about whatever you want with your hose storage, it's the guys who routinely pull 150' of hose and more that run into issues on a Butler reel.
There are one or two custom pieces of hardware I make specifically for Butlers to enhance vac, Do you have the Butler (outside tank) filter box?
Do you have the 110 or 210 waste tank.....wait you said all three packages,,is the 210 included?
After you pimp your vac, tehn address your wand, quite a bit of room there to make a tool better.
Which wand ya got?
I would like to add to Joe's vac hose capacity comments, if you don't have an elec. reel, and you are just running around knocking out 100' hose runs, you can do jsut about whatever you want with your hose storage, it's the guys who routinely pull 150' of hose and more that run into issues on a Butler reel.
There are one or two custom pieces of hardware I make specifically for Butlers to enhance vac, Do you have the Butler (outside tank) filter box?
Do you have the 110 or 210 waste tank.....wait you said all three packages,,is the 210 included?
Jim Nelson
Member
Thank you for asking about my wand its a twenty year old HM wand. 11 in by 65 in. I do have the out side filter box and the 210 tank. I would like a 2.5 hook up and a true 2 in hook up. and maybe a glide for the wand if i get more suck.
joe harper
Member
JIM,
You REALLY should call GREENIE....The little bit of knowlege I have on this subject..
I learned from JEFF. It is AMAZING that he will always return your call & takes the TIME
to answer any question you may have. Once you tell him what preformance mod. you are looking for.....He will CUSTOM design it to meet your needs...
Your mod. will be MUCH simpler than I posted...if you have A PRE-FILTER box.......
He has everything you need in stock....They are simple BOLT-ON installations, you
can do yourself.....JEFF WILL NOT SALE YOU ANYTHING YOU DO NOT NEED :!: :!: :!:
I am SURE you are going to have to CHANGE WANDS......He will hook-you-up with
exactly what you need for your NEW machine..( or modify your old wand )
ps I GUARANTEE YOU TO THIS WILL BE THE BEST MONEY YOU HAVE EVER SPENT
ON YOUR BUTLER :!: :!: :!: :!:
You REALLY should call GREENIE....The little bit of knowlege I have on this subject..
I learned from JEFF. It is AMAZING that he will always return your call & takes the TIME
to answer any question you may have. Once you tell him what preformance mod. you are looking for.....He will CUSTOM design it to meet your needs...
Your mod. will be MUCH simpler than I posted...if you have A PRE-FILTER box.......
He has everything you need in stock....They are simple BOLT-ON installations, you
can do yourself.....JEFF WILL NOT SALE YOU ANYTHING YOU DO NOT NEED :!: :!: :!:
I am SURE you are going to have to CHANGE WANDS......He will hook-you-up with
exactly what you need for your NEW machine..( or modify your old wand )
ps I GUARANTEE YOU TO THIS WILL BE THE BEST MONEY YOU HAVE EVER SPENT
ON YOUR BUTLER :!: :!: :!: :!:
Jim Nelson
Member
i will call greenie but i wanted to hear from others too.
joe harper
Member
Jim,
Post the mods. you are considering.............
then everyone can chime-in.....alot of talent here.....
I have owned BUTLERS since 1989........
LETS GO....LETS PIMP THE-OLE-GIRL....
Post the mods. you are considering.............
then everyone can chime-in.....alot of talent here.....
I have owned BUTLERS since 1989........
LETS GO....LETS PIMP THE-OLE-GIRL....
joe harper
Member
Hey Mr. Jim,
Its 11:00 here.....Lets get busy....We can have this baby done by midnight....
Here is the info we need.....................
What year :?:
GMC or FORD :?:
5.8 blower :?: (really a 4007)
5 cp CAT PUMP :?:
210 waste tank YES
Filter Box YES
What is your adverage hose run :?:
Do you run a in-line Filter :?:
inch & half or 2 inch wand :?:
Do you ever Duel Wand :?:
How many hours on Machine :?:
Is it still under Warranty :?: (Butler frowns upon you changing there CHIT :!: )
HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU WANT TO SPEND :?:
Its 11:00 here.....Lets get busy....We can have this baby done by midnight....
Here is the info we need.....................
What year :?:
GMC or FORD :?:
5.8 blower :?: (really a 4007)
5 cp CAT PUMP :?:
210 waste tank YES
Filter Box YES
What is your adverage hose run :?:
Do you run a in-line Filter :?:
inch & half or 2 inch wand :?:
Do you ever Duel Wand :?:
How many hours on Machine :?:
Is it still under Warranty :?: (Butler frowns upon you changing there CHIT :!: )
HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU WANT TO SPEND :?:
joe harper
Member
The 2.5 90 is already in place on the Butler waste tank.......FREE.......
If he would go DIRECT to the 90....He would elimanate the air-flow RESTRICTION of the FB.
Other than the obvious application of the (fb) filter box......He should just cap it off....
or he will have an issue of starting the machine. The Butler (being a PTO) reqires restriction
of the air-flow to bring the RPM's of the vehicle's motor up to start the unit.......
If he starts the unit without at least 25ft of 2.5 hose attached.....HE WILL OVER-SPIN THE
BLOWER....THE RPM OF THE MOTER WILL RACE .....because he will have increased the CFM's
DRAMATICALLY with no restriction.......
That is the BEAUTY of the MOD.....not only is he increasing his air-flow.....Taking stress off
the BLOWER (now it can BREATH).....But he can now adjust the actuaters to a lower RPM
on the van motor and increase his GAS MILAGE
Just to make SURE my techs didn't FORGET & start the unit without the proper lenght of
hose. I mounted an in-line FILTER (with a hose clamp) 0n the end of the 2.5 hose......
This solved a safety issue & served as a reducer for the 2in connection :wink: :wink: :wink:
If he would go DIRECT to the 90....He would elimanate the air-flow RESTRICTION of the FB.
Other than the obvious application of the (fb) filter box......He should just cap it off....
or he will have an issue of starting the machine. The Butler (being a PTO) reqires restriction
of the air-flow to bring the RPM's of the vehicle's motor up to start the unit.......
If he starts the unit without at least 25ft of 2.5 hose attached.....HE WILL OVER-SPIN THE
BLOWER....THE RPM OF THE MOTER WILL RACE .....because he will have increased the CFM's
DRAMATICALLY with no restriction.......
That is the BEAUTY of the MOD.....not only is he increasing his air-flow.....Taking stress off
the BLOWER (now it can BREATH).....But he can now adjust the actuaters to a lower RPM
on the van motor and increase his GAS MILAGE
Just to make SURE my techs didn't FORGET & start the unit without the proper lenght of
hose. I mounted an in-line FILTER (with a hose clamp) 0n the end of the 2.5 hose......
This solved a safety issue & served as a reducer for the 2in connection :wink: :wink: :wink:
Jim Nelson
Member
Its a 2006 GMC with everthing 550 hr. just needs more vac.
It's great that Joe brought up the vacuum delay pods on the Butler.
No Butler will "fire up" with a high flow 2.5 package, you will always have to cup the hose, and in fact you may Lose mach I setting, where you will have to engage mach II to get it to fire up (I'm not 100% sure as to the tech reason why) but i know it for a fact can happen because of the No resistance issue, it's really no big deal, cause high performance guys are usually always running in the higher speed anyways, if not for heat, then additional vacuum.
On the topic of Butler PRE-filter Box, here is a modification that is cheap and easy, just replace your stock bottom plate IN the box with the one I made, big difference in vac.
Then you can start addressing replacing your Gray plastic Spears fittings with thin walled gentle bend ones like the ones I make.
If you prefer to hook up out the back door, or have somehow moved your filterbox to the center so you can use it out the side door, then replace the spears 2.5' straight barb with a threaded 2.5 elbow, much easier to work with, and the Thin wall is better for airflow.
.
No Butler will "fire up" with a high flow 2.5 package, you will always have to cup the hose, and in fact you may Lose mach I setting, where you will have to engage mach II to get it to fire up (I'm not 100% sure as to the tech reason why) but i know it for a fact can happen because of the No resistance issue, it's really no big deal, cause high performance guys are usually always running in the higher speed anyways, if not for heat, then additional vacuum.
On the topic of Butler PRE-filter Box, here is a modification that is cheap and easy, just replace your stock bottom plate IN the box with the one I made, big difference in vac.
Then you can start addressing replacing your Gray plastic Spears fittings with thin walled gentle bend ones like the ones I make.
If you prefer to hook up out the back door, or have somehow moved your filterbox to the center so you can use it out the side door, then replace the spears 2.5' straight barb with a threaded 2.5 elbow, much easier to work with, and the Thin wall is better for airflow.
.
Now, I'm a big proponent of replacing 2.5 plastic with 2.5 metal, but on all of your (5.8 package) butlers 4007 blower, they will have 3" plastic elbows on the waste tank, on vac reel side it will have a plastic bushing bringing it down to 2.5" plastic barb, I don't have a problem with teh 3" elbow it's self, or the bushing, it's the actual 2.5 barb you gotta pitch, either repalce it with my threaded male elbow above, or one of these, much better for reducing restriction:
I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but this all ASSUMES you are off the "live" vac hose reel, and either running 2.5 to a filter box and then out to the wand, or 2.5 from tank to the door and then to the wand/2" lead hose.
If you are STILL on the live vac reel, that is 1/2 of your vacuum problem.
If you Skip the filter box, tehn jsut get one of these, and run 8' of 2.5 from tank to side door; and now you have a fixed 2.5 hook up. You can go down behind the reel to the floor, or up and over across the roof to the side door by fresh tank, some have even bolted it to the riser on their solution reel stack.
I probably should have mentioned this earlier, but this all ASSUMES you are off the "live" vac hose reel, and either running 2.5 to a filter box and then out to the wand, or 2.5 from tank to the door and then to the wand/2" lead hose.
If you are STILL on the live vac reel, that is 1/2 of your vacuum problem.
If you Skip the filter box, tehn jsut get one of these, and run 8' of 2.5 from tank to side door; and now you have a fixed 2.5 hook up. You can go down behind the reel to the floor, or up and over across the roof to the side door by fresh tank, some have even bolted it to the riser on their solution reel stack.
Now your airflow is straightened out, get at least 50' of 2.5 hose, and ditch your 1.5" leader entirely. If you can make use of it, get 100' of 2.5, because the closer that 2.5 is to the wand the suck you are gonan get for your buck, so use as short of a 2" lead line as you can get away with, 25' of 2" lead sucks better than 50' of 2" lead, so chose your weapons based apon how much "hassle" factor you are willing to tolerate for how much drier you are gonan get carpets, and work faster to boot.
The limitation for you butler guys is gonan be the capacity of that hose reel, and you pretty much want to pull n go, so 75' or so of the 2.5 and a lead hose is about all you will fit, hopefully that does 90% of your jobs, and life is good, otherwise you get into alternative hose management issues.
Me, personally, I think i try and stack 100' of 2.5 on my elec. reel, and just hand coil my leaders, one 25' and one 50'.
Oh...and until you step up the ol 1.5" Hoe to a 2" high flow wand, get a "vac attack" adapter and leave it on your wand so you can run 2" to it. yes....you may want some more flexible 2" hose to serve as your leader, cause butler 2" is stiff.
oh...don't forget to adjsut your butler vacuum relief valve (knurled knob on wast tank), pull the kotter pin, and turn clockwise a turn or two, this will bring up your vacuum reading on your gauge, set it at 15"hg, and put the kotter pin back in.
The limitation for you butler guys is gonan be the capacity of that hose reel, and you pretty much want to pull n go, so 75' or so of the 2.5 and a lead hose is about all you will fit, hopefully that does 90% of your jobs, and life is good, otherwise you get into alternative hose management issues.
Me, personally, I think i try and stack 100' of 2.5 on my elec. reel, and just hand coil my leaders, one 25' and one 50'.
Oh...and until you step up the ol 1.5" Hoe to a 2" high flow wand, get a "vac attack" adapter and leave it on your wand so you can run 2" to it. yes....you may want some more flexible 2" hose to serve as your leader, cause butler 2" is stiff.
oh...don't forget to adjsut your butler vacuum relief valve (knurled knob on wast tank), pull the kotter pin, and turn clockwise a turn or two, this will bring up your vacuum reading on your gauge, set it at 15"hg, and put the kotter pin back in.
joe harper
Member
GREENIE.
If I was aware of your mod. on the Filter Box.....I wouldn"t have sold mine...NICE MOD....
HOW THEY START:System engage switch activates solenoid on electric clutch "low speed"
then by restricting the air-flow at hose end.......This engages the 2
vac. advances ...located in the engine compartment...raising engine
RPM's to operating speed...Which opens the solenoid & allows the unit
to matches the RPM of the engine...Mach 2 simply raises the RPM of the
engine....Spinning the PTO faster at the unit."VERY COOL" design....
IT elimanates the SUDDEN JOLT on the BLOWER & PUMP... Reminds
me of the way you start a TURBINE engine...low stress as you bring it
up to FULL POWER 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
I elimanated Mach 1 also....un plug vac. hose & stick a Golf tee in it...."it is usless with 2.5"
I run 2.5 from the waste tank.....Like your photo....But..I run a little longer lead hose,so I
can still use the SAFETY PORT that Butler cuts in the side door....I like to LOCK the doors
when I am doing commercial work...or in "BAWBS NEIGHBORHOOD" :wink: :wink: :wink:
I personally PREFER running an IN-LINE filter......And cleaning it after EVERY JOB.....then I am sure I have no RESTRICTION in the PITA bag filter Butler puts in the waste tank.. Alot
easier than UN-SCREWING & taking of the tank lid......
If I was aware of your mod. on the Filter Box.....I wouldn"t have sold mine...NICE MOD....
HOW THEY START:System engage switch activates solenoid on electric clutch "low speed"
then by restricting the air-flow at hose end.......This engages the 2
vac. advances ...located in the engine compartment...raising engine
RPM's to operating speed...Which opens the solenoid & allows the unit
to matches the RPM of the engine...Mach 2 simply raises the RPM of the
engine....Spinning the PTO faster at the unit."VERY COOL" design....
IT elimanates the SUDDEN JOLT on the BLOWER & PUMP... Reminds
me of the way you start a TURBINE engine...low stress as you bring it
up to FULL POWER 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
I elimanated Mach 1 also....un plug vac. hose & stick a Golf tee in it...."it is usless with 2.5"
I run 2.5 from the waste tank.....Like your photo....But..I run a little longer lead hose,so I
can still use the SAFETY PORT that Butler cuts in the side door....I like to LOCK the doors
when I am doing commercial work...or in "BAWBS NEIGHBORHOOD" :wink: :wink: :wink:
I personally PREFER running an IN-LINE filter......And cleaning it after EVERY JOB.....then I am sure I have no RESTRICTION in the PITA bag filter Butler puts in the waste tank.. Alot
easier than UN-SCREWING & taking of the tank lid......
Jim Nelson
Member
Thanks . And what if i spin the blower faster with a smaller gear?
joe harper
Member
JIM,
I don't understand ????? The blower is belt driven......WHAT GEARS??????
I don't understand ????? The blower is belt driven......WHAT GEARS??????
Jim Nelson
Member
the pulley on the blower is 4.25 in if i put one on that is say 3.75 in the blower will spin faster at the same RPM. stepped it down like a ten speed bike. sorry gears is not the right word for it nor is pulley.sheave?
Jim Nelson
Member
clutch would stay the same speed it is now.
joe harper
Member
Jim,
I can't answer that ONE....I'm NOT Qualified...."GREENIE WHERE ARE YOU"
I realize that your theory....Would spin the blower Faster...
BUT it is also going to spin the PUMP faster......
( Im just guessing????) BUT....The 2 different size pulleys...is to syncronize or
balance the speed of both components :?: :?: :?:
I can't answer that ONE....I'm NOT Qualified...."GREENIE WHERE ARE YOU"
I realize that your theory....Would spin the blower Faster...
BUT it is also going to spin the PUMP faster......
( Im just guessing????) BUT....The 2 different size pulleys...is to syncronize or
balance the speed of both components :?: :?: :?:
Jim Nelson said:
That is why it would increase the torque if you speed up the blower. You are putting a larger load on it the faster you turn the blower. Then you will have to be more cautious of your hg limit. A good clutch will probably hold a 4007 blower or equilevant to a pretty good performance level. I am just mentioning it as a concern.
NOT worth the hassle of a sheave/pulley change, once you upgrade to 2.5 you will have tons of vacuum...end of story.
From there on out, you'll be identifying everything in your system that is NOT 2.5" , as all teh 2" stuff is now your choke point...ie: Wand.
And just for the record, those butlers have a good coolant HX, they hold temp against a high flow wand well, so don't be afraid to up your jets and get some super flushing going on, it can take it, and you will clean faster, dry better and be reporting back with smiles.
From there on out, you'll be identifying everything in your system that is NOT 2.5" , as all teh 2" stuff is now your choke point...ie: Wand.
And just for the record, those butlers have a good coolant HX, they hold temp against a high flow wand well, so don't be afraid to up your jets and get some super flushing going on, it can take it, and you will clean faster, dry better and be reporting back with smiles.
joe harper
Member
Greenie ?????
I have a stupid :?: :?:
Would a 2.5 hose on a RX 20 relieve the (choke point) :?:
I have a stupid :?: :?:
Would a 2.5 hose on a RX 20 relieve the (choke point) :?:
Jim Nelson
Member
Thank you all four your input.
HARPER said:
I'm gonna assume you just mean hooking the 2.5 up directly to the stock 2" port on the RX? Yes it wodl be more efficient than say a 25' leader of 2", but I don't think that 2.5 feet of 2" plumbing is gonna make any difference, you still have the star hub, and the lil' 7/8" hub nipples for a choke point. But that 25' leader vs: no leader would make a difference, but it's probably not gonna make the tech happy to pull around the BIG hose...lol
