Piranha bashing?

Greg Cole

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Seriously- is there anything else to say about Polish and his marketing plan? He promotes attacking any and anyone that stands in your way. States that you need to be on an ethical cleaner list but then promotes that you be unethical and call people that aren't paying him money to be part of the system unethical? Am I misunderstanding something? Don't Piranha eat everything in their path?

But seriously, Joe makes tens of millions doing what he does. he is one heck of a moticational speaker with a nitch in the cleaning industry.
 

Mike H.

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Greg,

I'm not sure where you stand - first you bash Joe P. and then you say he's an excellent speaker who has a niche in the industry.

Also, do you really think he makes tens of millions ?
 

Cameron1

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I enjoy nothing more than winning at what I do, and that includes beating my competition to a pulp on a fair and level playing field. Business competition of any kind is a dog eat dog proposition. Kind of like a modern day equivalent of Darwin's theory of evolution.

Competition is good......it makes one work hard to have a better company.It is what causes one to deliver a better service to one's clients.

It's not personal....It's business

Joe/Piranha has helped me to stay focused on the prize.
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Joe does not promote attacking people. Actually, we teach more than anything the value of creating local networks with other companies, including cleaners. I certainly do that in my city, where I work with restoration companies and cleaning companies (some of which do clean rugs also) - when they get in a bind, they use us. If I wanted to be hard core I could say no, but I don't like to burn bridges with them.

The ideal situation to be in is where your competition is actually a client.

Now - maybe things were different when he first came onto the scene - I don't know. But what I do know is that for the past decade, that has NOT been the case.

Lisa

P.S. Hey Steve Cameron! Are you doing flood work yet? You guys have been getting a TON of rain this season ... our Georgia members are kicking butt with restoration this year. :)
 

Greg Cole

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LisaWagnerCRS said:
Joe does not promote attacking people. Actually, we teach more than anything the value of creating local networks with other companies, including cleaners. I certainly do that in my city, where I work with restoration companies and cleaning companies (some of which do clean rugs also) - when they get in a bind, they use us. If I wanted to be hard core I could say no, but I don't like to burn bridges with them.

The ideal situation to be in is where your competition is actually a client.

Now - maybe things were different when he first came onto the scene - I don't know. But what I do know is that for the past decade, that has NOT been the case.

Lisa

P.S. Hey Steve Cameron! Are you doing flood work yet? You guys have been getting a TON of rain this season ... our Georgia members are kicking butt with restoration this year. :)

Always a pleasure to hear from you Lisa. You have always conducted yourself with class and dignity.
 

Dolly Llama

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LisaWagnerCRS said:
Joe does not promote attacking people.

balony
unethical service was a sleazy, deceptive campaign .
If they'd of stopped at just listing those that paid Joe to be on the "ethical" list, that would be one thing.
But when they listed reputable outfits and implied they were UNethical, is where it was dripping with SLIME

..L.T.A.
 

ken horvath

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Lisa,

I tried to get a booth at your Rich Cleaners convention and was turned away because Interlink did not carry my product. I hope you guys make a different decision next year so your members are presented with the best possible products and not just the ones you have agreements with. Now that would be ethical.

Ken Horvath
602-723-2534
 

Desk Jockey

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I tried to get a booth at your Rich Cleaners convention and was turned away because Interlink did not carry my product. I hope you guys make a different decision next year so your members are presented with the best possible products and not just the ones you have agreements with. Now that would be ethical.
:shock:
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Larry - that was changed YEARS ago. Quit crying.

Ken - you were turned away NOT because Interlink did not sell your products (we had a number of manufacturers not handled by Interlink) - but because I have never heard of you before. Everyone who was in our show was a company who I personally knew, or had members with direct experience with.

I am the gatekeeper for product endorsements and discount agreements - and I want to make sure nothing subpar is getting peddled to our members. If I am endorsing the company and relationship, I'm telling them this is a company to work with - and that has a lot of weight with our membership.

So allowing someone I do not know, to sell a product I have no direct data/experience with, would be UNethical.

Lisa
 

ken horvath

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Yes Lisa, Originally I was told my product was a no brainer and should be there. David? I believe that was who I talked with. Anyway, ultimately I was turned away and told that is was "specifically" because my products were not sold by Interlink.

Business is business.

You may not know me or my products. We were 30 feet apart on opposite sides of the isle at the Connections Show for days. You would likely recognize me as I said hi to you several times. I'm nice like that. You should look around at the booths next to you sometime. :cry:

I'm not trying to get down on you as much as it is my strange sense of humor. I see what you guys have going from a business perspective and would like the opportunity to participate. I'll disagree, but understand if money keeps my awesome product away from your members.

Ken
 

LisaWagnerCRS

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Ken, this is not a money issue, as I said I have no direct experience with your product, or any member who mentioned to me that they do. If you find one, please let me know.

We had Bruce Deloatch and Truckmount Cleaning Solutions in our show - they are not carried by Interlink.

I'm sure I would recognize you... I just would not recognize your machines.

Sorry... maybe this year you can give me some feedback from someone in our network using them - that would help.

Thanks,
Lisa
 

Willy P

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meAt said:
LisaWagnerCRS said:
Joe does not promote attacking people.

balony
unethical service was a sleazy, deceptive campaign .
If they'd of stopped at just listing those that paid Joe to be on the "ethical" list, that would be one thing.
But when they listed reputable outfits and implied they were UNethical, is where it was dripping with SLIME

..L.T.A.

penguin-slap.gif
 

Ron Werner

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Well, from my experience my busn wouldn't be where it is today had I not replied to his full page of copy ad in Cleanfax back in 97. Between the info he was promoting and talking with many of the cleaners, I learned what no one else was teaching, at that time. Joe came on the scene and made a huge difference in a LOT of cleaner's busns for the better. Since then there have been many others selling their info.
Yes, I've spent a fair bit of money on material, and a lot of it I've not even opened. But I know when I get hungry enough to want to build my busn to a higher level, its there. Most of what I'm using is very basic and a lot of it is just mindset. I also have to thank Steve Marsh for his coaching.
Bash all you want. Had Joe not come into this industry many cleaners wouldn't be making as much as they are.
 

Dolly Llama

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LisaWagnerCRS said:
Larry - that was changed YEARS ago. Quit crying.



Lisa

Thanks Lisa
I must of missed the "anymore" part of your statement

Joe does not promote attacking people.....anymore
when the lawyers got involved


..L.T.A.
 

Jim Pemberton

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Joe is one of those people who will remain a lightning rod for as long as he's a part of the industry.

Its interesting how time changes things. Ed York is generally revered as a visionary and advocate for the "little guy", but in his lifetime he, too, was the target of criticism similar to what Mr Polish and Ms Wagner are receiving.

I remember when my father threw in his lot with Ed and the fledgling IICUC (IICRC now). The amount of phone calls that Lee got from industry leaders and associates was incredible. They asked him how he could possibly let his name be associated with such a man.

Ed had some fairly brutal, in your face, marketing tactics, and also took care of his own business and financial interests as a part of his service to others.

His exile from the IICRC and his elder statesman status helped rehabilitate him in the eyes of our industry in his later years, but what is being said about Joe and Lisa here is mild compared to what was said about Ed in the mid 1970's.

Make no mistake: I respected Ed deeply, and while he often made Lee and I wince and question our sanity at times for working with him, he too gave our industry far more than he took.

Joe and Lisa have made me wince a few times. I've disagreed with things they've done, and Lisa and I have debated those issues publicly and privately. But at some point I think its time to leave the past behind and move ahead.

Lisa knows that I'll challenge her if we disagree. I also know she'll argue her point back just as boldly. But don't lose sight of the fact that the great thing about this place is its venue for open debate.

But personal attacks from both sides not only are unpleasant, but they cloud the real issues that should be debated.

Just some perspective from this old man.
 

Willy P

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Ms. Wagner, some advice - no charge :D - Once you or your partner crap in the bed you made, you need to change the sheets and get a new mattress or lay in it and pretend it doesn't exist or never happened. Either way there's still a strong stench of poop.

Your sincerity seems underwhelming.

Jim, with the utmost respect, I can't and won't forget the personal attack(s) on small business with the Ethical services horsepucky. I do respect Ms. Wagner's expertise in rugs, but the endorsement of the business practices of attempting to manipulate the market through something that falls just short of extortion is appalling and needs to be addressed constantly and with a loud voice.
 

Jim Pemberton

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Thank you Willy.

I understand and respect your passion on the subject. I too had a cleaning company "below the line". It annoyed my sense of principle, but in fact never hurt the company anywhere near my own management mistakes and hiring miscues probably did over the years, if it all.

Those who feel injured in person or by the principle of what occurred neither have to forgive nor forget to move on. I've had worse done to me and frankly I have a few things I've done I still don't feel very good about that I've done.

When my grandfather was on his deathbed, he knew I had some strong resentments about some personal matters there were boiling over in me.

He told me this:

"Anger only hurts the vessel that carries it."

The younger man I was then didn't completely understand what he was telling me.

The older man that I am today does. Just my two cents Willy.
 

Jim Pemberton

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I would gladly become your personal coach and spiritual adviser.

Meditate on all of the unkindness that you've heaped upon those who wither under your acidic wit, and repeat over and over...........IGAS IGAS IGAS......
 

Ron Werner

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need that Bob Newhart clip if you're goingto counsel anyone.
I';m not get this done. STOP IT!
I'm doing this. STOP IT!
Etc


I NEVER saw JP as bashing any cleaners that didn't deserve a bashing. His main attacks were against unethical cleaners. Now of course, if you're an unethical cleaner, you're going to take that personally.
It was more about educating people to all the BS that has flown around this industry over the past 20yrs, all the bait and switch, the poor cleaning practices, etc.
All I ever saw him as trying to do was raising the standard of this industry where cleaners are providing the service they said they were going to provide, they would be providing more value to the customer, making customers extremely pleased and in return being able to charge more than the average cleaner.
There's a cleaner in town that , well, a couple cleaners, that say I over charge at 55 cents, that they can do what I do in 1/2 the time and for 1/2 the money, and they have come close to bad mouthing me. THOUGH they can't say I didn't do a great job on the carpets, just that "they" could have done it. Yet they CAN do what I do, they CHOOSE to do mediocre work instead.
Perhaps some things were implemented incorrectly or they weren't controlled enough. And I think for most cleaners, like myself, we aren't ready for the volumes of marketing information that he keeps bringing out. We're still trying to use what we got. So we get overwhelmed and irritated at being constantly marketed to. But there are other cleaners, hungry for the knowledge and ideas and they go out and make $1000's off it. Stuff works, just need to work it.
 

Greg Cole

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Ron Werner said:
need that Bob Newhart clip if you're goingto counsel anyone.
I';m not get this done. STOP IT!
I'm doing this. STOP IT!
Etc


I NEVER saw JP as bashing any cleaners that didn't deserve a bashing. His main attacks were against unethical cleaners. Now of course, if you're an unethical cleaner, you're going to take that personally.
It was more about educating people to all the BS that has flown around this industry over the past 20yrs, all the bait and switch, the poor cleaning practices, etc.
All I ever saw him as trying to do was raising the standard of this industry where cleaners are providing the service they said they were going to provide, they would be providing more value to the customer, making customers extremely pleased and in return being able to charge more than the average cleaner.
There's a cleaner in town that , well, a couple cleaners, that say I over charge at 55 cents, that they can do what I do in 1/2 the time and for 1/2 the money, and they have come close to bad mouthing me. THOUGH they can't say I didn't do a great job on the carpets, just that "they" could have done it. Yet they CAN do what I do, they CHOOSE to do mediocre work instead.
Perhaps some things were implemented incorrectly or they weren't controlled enough. And I think for most cleaners, like myself, we aren't ready for the volumes of marketing information that he keeps bringing out. We're still trying to use what we got. So we get overwhelmed and irritated at being constantly marketed to. But there are other cleaners, hungry for the knowledge and ideas and they go out and make $1000's off it. Stuff works, just need to work it.

LOL! His list of ethical cleaners then had a list of tens of thousands of carpet cleaning companies that he deemed unethical simply because they weren't his customers. he pulled the list from the yellow pages!
 

Desk Jockey

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Here is where the bitching and complaining make a difference.

Do you think Joe and Lisa said “hey we went too far let’s change this.”

I don’t believe that’s what caused the change, I think it was exposing the scam to daylight that made the change.

I think when it doesn’t look right or smell right people should be questioned, but there is no point in getting angry or using profanity (tough for me not to) just ask “why”.

They made the changes to improve the site, so you have to give them credit for that.

We need to be big enough to move on, to their next scam…oops I mean project! :p
 

Ron Werner

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the premise behind Ethical Services is good. Wouldn't hurt to have a site that separates the wheat from the chaff.
Implementing something like that is a challenge, and even harder is policing it.
Unfortunately they made some bad choices with it.
 

ken horvath

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Lisa,

I will look for one of your members with experience using my equipment. It would help if I had a list of your members including addresses and phone numbers to check against my sales records. How quickly do you think I could have this? :roll:

Ken
 

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