Predator advice

Heathrow

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Heath Menefy
G'day guys - looking at one of Duanes Predator Unleashed units possibly in the near future. I haven't come accross any adverse information so far on this unit, so I'm thinking they're good value for money. Any advice from users of these machines? I'm looking at putting one in a smallish box type truck.

Cheers
Heathrow
 

Duane Oxley

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Hey, Heath. FYI, thee are 3 of them over there (maybe 4, actually) in NZ. So you can see one first- hand, etc., there, if you'd like.
 

Heathrow

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:wink: Ahh, the man himself! Hey I don't suppose you know what region they're in? Roro is about 5 hours drive but I will definitely pay him a visit before making a decision. Happy New Year BTW!

Heathrow

Ps - Duane can you tell me if the propane (LPG here) tank is part of the unit or would I just hook up a cylinder?
 

Duane Oxley

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Hey, Heath...

2 are in Christchurch. I need to look up where the other is.

L.P. tank is included, but the last 2 requested not to include them. Apparently, there's a difference of some sort between the way they hook up (for refill...?) there, from here...

BTW... I am designing an "entry level" heat exchanger system, and have designed a mid- level one as well, but neither will be no where near the heat capability of an Unleashed! system.

Thanks,

Duane
 

RichardnTn

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Worked last night with a friend who has an Unleashed II with roughly 175 hours on it. Nothing really significant as far as maintenance is concerned.
Excellent heat....240 ATM is easy, vacuum is great. Easy access to components...(no Shill here) ....... Tnx Richard R.
 

Duane Oxley

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Correction, Richard... 240 ATW (about 115 deg. Celsius, BTW.), is easy... at just under 2 GPM... 8)

Duane
 

RichardnTn

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Hey Duane, How are ya.... No correction needed, I was just trying to be conservative... in reality 250 plus is more like it....take care, Richard R
 

Duane Oxley

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Hey, Richard... :)

A- o.k. Getting a bit more into this exchanger thing. Taking it slow, to be sure I'm doing it right the first time. Been looking at other designs literally since they first came out in the early 80's with the Endura's we used to sell at another company. I've been taking mental notes every time I got a chance to see a different design philosophy. Still don't understand why everyone else likes to make them so complicated...
 

Duane Oxley

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We don't make one that has no fresh water tank. All systems use a small incoming reservoir to regulate incoming water pressure to atmospheric pressure and to add additional heat via passive heat capture. (i.e., The tank is located inside of the system frame, and therefore gains heat as a result, from the system itself.)

If you mean the one that's continuous pump- out, the answer is, "Yes.". Unleashed Predators are all "CP" systems, meaning, "continuous pump out". They have "separation tanks", not holding tanks.

All 5 systems in NZ are Unleashed Predators with continuous pump- out's... same as Danny's, same as Duane Smith's, and same as the one Richard has used.

Both Unleashed Predators and the new entry- level exchanger come that way. (That particular exchanger regulates temperature by dumping into the tank, which, since it's "bottomless", never fills up.) The high- end exchanger has a tank and is absolutely unique. It does not dump to regulate temperature, but rather only as a fail- safe, which is on the bypass loop, same as all systems I've ever built. It regulates temperature in a new way that the patent is being applied for...

Duane
 

hogjowl

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Sorry ... I got that screwed up. I meant to say no waste tank.

I've been "hearing" that your owners are having issues with their pump-outs being able to keep up with the volume of waste water entering the small separation tank. I assume it has to do with debris blocking the inlet filter.

What have you done to correct this?
 

Duane Oxley

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Mardy, I know you don't like to read much, so I'll give you the short answer up front, then let you know where the short answer stops... then give background, just in case...

I've been designing a larger filter. Actually, 2 of them. One is a pump- out in itself (for systems other than the CP systems). The other is a filter box. I did one a while back, but didn't like the size of it. It took up too much floor space, so I decided to revise it. It has optional 2.5" ports in it, and will also come with a 2.5" and a 2" as an option. (2.5" between the tank and filter box and 2" to the wand. For our systems, it will be standard with 2.5" and 2" ports, to preserve airflow.)

Mardy That was for you. And this is a note to let you know that you can stop reading now... :wink:

Personally, I never have been a big fan of the "Leaf Guard" type filters. I've seen them as having some drawbacks, such as being too small and affecting vacuum, "quickly". But they're readily available and industry- accepted.

The CP systems work fine as long as the filter is used and the filter is in good working order (i.e., no holes or tears in the stainless steel screen) and kept clean. The pump we feature on them can pump 75 GPM to a distance of 50 feet from the system. At longer runs, the GPM isn't as high, but even at half that, it's more than enough to keep up with any cleaning job and virtually any flood. (The one featured on the FloodMaster systems pumps 125 GPM @ 50 ft.)

There was an issue when they first came out that was related to the slope of the plumbing between the tank and the pump. There had to be a constant slope to the pump. The slope on the original CP systems was good. But when the heater was later moved forward on the frame, to the center of the length of it, the plumbing was made to "loop" under the heater and back up to the pump, which turned out to be a big no-no, in that sometimes they worked and sometimes they didn't. It was a previously- unencountered situation that took some time to correct.

Systems made since that time had a definite slope, with no "partial loop" as part of their plumbing. And that slope has been gradually increased to 4" now, from back to front... not because there is a problem with less than 4, but because 4" is available, so I decided to spec it in. (I also made the plumbing larger than the original systems... 2", vs. 1.25", coming out of the bottom of the tank, to ensure better drainage with less restriction.)

The very first "CP" system we built (the one shown in the Astro van on the web site), has 1.25" plumbing and a slope of about 2". It's been in continuous operation since it was installed 3 years ago, with the only down time related to a split in the filter that let some stringy trash through that had to be cleaned out. It has not been modified in any way since it was built. We have a customer in Tennessee, who now has 3 of them. (One Unleashed and 2 with Little Giants). He didn't get them all at once. But he was so tickled with the first one, that he bought 2 more as soon as he could.

The one thing that the CP systems don't handle well is trash over 3/8" diameter through the pump. Anything that size or larger that gets through will get stuck. (Well, actually, "stringy" debris does, too, because it can wrap around the impeller.) When that happens, the pump has to be disassembled and cleaned out. The impeller has 4 "vanes", which look a lot like a pinwheel kids play with. The 4 vanes result in 4 channels. And if 1 of them gets debris stuck in it, the pump is functioning at 75% capacity, which is marginal. But the good news is that these pumps are virtually indestructible. The impeller is cast iron... not rubber.

I have a picture I took of one that the customer "swore" he always used the filter on. When we took the pump apart, we found 3 small granite pebbles, stopping up 3 of the channels between the vanes, meaning that it was working at 25% capacity. We took the pebbles out, reassembled the pump and all was well. (It turned out that that customer would pull the filter off while the system was still running, then lay the hose on the ground and walk around to the front of the system and turn it off. Somewhere along the way, the system had sucked in those pepples when no filter was connected) I'd post the picture here, but there's no provision for that, without it already being elsewhere on the Internet.

So... "Yes.", filtration is essential. If the filter is not used, the pump will stop up and have to be cleaned out. If the filter has a hole or split in it, the same thing can happen.

By the way... the new filters (they'll be options... not standard equipment) are designed to bolt to the floor. As a result, they'll always be connected.

Duane
 

Scott Rogers

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Duane, I will post the picture for you if you e-mail it to me.

How hard is it to clean out those pumps with them being mounted inside the machines.

Are they effected by high heat machines? I have melted the rubber impeller on my Jabsco.

Are there any issues with the pump-out over coming the vacuum of a larger blower 47-56-59-68 etc?

What is the cost of your stand alone pump-out filter box and is it powered 110 volt or 12 volt dc?
 
G

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Scott Rogers said:
Duane, I will post the picture for you if you e-mail it to me.

How hard is it to clean out those pumps with them being mounted inside the machines. Takes about 30 min with minimal mechanical knowledge

Are they effected by high heat machines? I have melted the rubber impeller on my Jabsco. Cast Aluminum impellor

Are there any issues with the pump-out over coming the vacuum of a larger blower 47-56-59-68 etc?

What is the cost of your stand alone pump-out filter box and is it powered 110 volt or 12 volt dc? Mechanical system




Finally I just want to chime in on the AP. I purchased my cleaning unit for the king of Doo Daddy little over a year ago. No problems what so ever. I have had a minor issue with the AP vapor locking (dont know if thats the correct word ) . It seems that occasionally the pump will quit pumping especially if this is first job of the day. I would have to walk out and lower rpms and it would start pumping. Rev it back up and run it all day.


I do run a leaf filter but dont ask me how my tech has manage to have the unit swallow a rag. Thats a couple hour job removing the drain line off the tank.
 

Scott Rogers

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Duane Oxley

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Duane, I will post the picture for you if you e-mail it to me

Done... I E-mailed you 3 of them.


How hard is it to clean out those pumps with them being mounted inside the machines.

It's not as easy as I'd like, but it's not a PITA either, like working on some of the well known national brands. You remove the discharge plumbing on the side of the pump (the part that extends through the wall...), then remove 4 casing bolts, and it comes apart. The back end of the pump (that has no moving parts) remains connected to the system. To reinstall it, you do the reverse. "Round trip" takes about 20 minutes, including cleaning the impeller.

Are they effected by high heat machines? I have melted the rubber impeller on my Jabsco.

No, not that I can tell. And on the "Unleashed!" systems, which run as hot as yours, the route through the pump is only about 3 feet, from the time it enters the tank, which means that the solution has little time to cool. In 3- plus years of building these, we've only replaced 2 of them... both due to cracked flanges due to the customer over- tightening the casing bolts. (I started putting spacers on the bolts, to prevent that, just in case...)

Are there any issues with the pump-out over coming the vacuum of a larger blower 47-56-59-68 etc?

I can't speak with experience on blowers larger than a 45, regarding this. But there should be no problem. It's a matter of overcoming lift... not airflow. I know that the FloodMaster pump out pump can overcome about 50% more lift... and the standard one was originally evaluated to work flawlessly while overcoming 17" Hg.

What is the cost of your stand alone pump-out filter box and is it powered 110 volt or 12 volt dc?

The pump out is designed to work at 12 volts. That's because it's not intended to be mounted outside of the truck, but rather, bolted down inside the truck... and I don't want to have to have a generator or inverter to operate it. This way, it's a simple connection. One of the things about it, is that it's HUGE, compared to a Leaf Guard and larger than any other one that I've seen, but doesn't take up a lot of floor space. (The filter holds about 4 gallons.) Cost is $850

Thanks...
 

Duane Oxley

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Thanks, Scott...

They're shown "backwards", in terms of the order they "happen" in... The first one shows the blockage. The second shows a closeup and the third one shows the impeller cleaned out, ready for reinstall...

Duane S....

Your pump- out is an upgrade to a system we built that has a recovery tank. It doesn't come into the very underside of the tank, like "CP" systems do. The pump isn't self- priming, so it has to be below the water level to work.

If your tank is not full to that level, it will "sputter". Once it's primed, you're good to go. That's why it needs a "boost", via a prime... because the tank was empty and the plumbing is as well. Once the plumbing is, "full", it is primed...

It doesn't lose that prime during the rest of the day, because there is a check valve that prevents that. But when the system isn't running, the seal on the check valve isn't as thoroughly- seated, so overnight, it can lose that prime.

Duane O. (aka, "DooDaddy")
 
G

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It hasnt bothered me enough to call you about but thanks for the info. Still happy I went that way instead of somone else.
 

hogjowl

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When I first started hearing from folks telling me that Duane had started building units without a waste tank, my initial reaction was negative. I sure would hate to be dependent on an auto pump-out to keep working.

However, I'm not so old that I can't change. Time will tell.
 

harryhides

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Tony
Scott Rogers said:
Duane, I will post the picture for you if you e-mail it to me.

How hard is it to clean out those pumps with them being mounted inside the machines. Takes about 30 min with minimal mechanical knowledge

Are they effected by high heat machines? I have melted the rubber impeller on my Jabsco. Cast Aluminum impellor

Are there any issues with the pump-out over coming the vacuum of a larger blower 47-56-59-68 etc?

What is the cost of your stand alone pump-out filter box and is it powered 110 volt or 12 volt dc? Mechanical system



Finally I just want to chime in on the AP. I purchased my cleaning unit for the king of Doo Daddy little over a year ago. No problems what so ever. I have had a minor issue with the AP vapor locking (dont know if thats the correct word ) . It seems that occasionally the pump will quit pumping especially if this is first job of the day. I would have to walk out and lower rpms and it would start pumping. Rev it back up and run it all day.


I do run a leaf filter but dont ask me how my tech has manage to have the unit swallow a rag. Thats a couple hour job removing the drain line off the tank.
 

Duane Oxley

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Thanks, Harry, but... you got one thing wrong.

The stand alone pump-out isn't mechanical. The one on the CP systems and offered as an upgrade on Predators and Accelerators is mechanical... built into the frame. It has a cast iron impeller... not aluminum.

The stand alone is electrical. It was designed to be used on any system. It was an idea I came up with some time ago, after remembering seeing one made by Hydramaster years ago, that plugged into a house receptacle for power and dumped down a toilet.

This one runs on 12 volts and is installed in the van, next to the system, or at the back door. (It has been designed to fit nicely behind the wheel well of a standard van.)

Duane
 

Duane Oxley

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"When I first started hearing from folks telling me that Duane had started building units without a waste tank, my initial reaction was negative.... However, I'm not so old that I can't change. Time will tell."

That's o.k., Mardy. I hear that several people had the same reaction. I'm guessing that I'll get similar reactions when the first exchangers come out. I expect certain competitors in particular to say something like, "too new", "too simple", "needs to be with bigger motor", etc.

New advancements are often met with skepticism. From my perspective, that's part of the fun of it... :lol:
 

Heathrow

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Duane, when you talk about the filter (ss grill type) picking up debri, I take it that the filter itself is a daily removal/clean job? We do a hell of a lot of wool here - well over 50% in my experience - and it seems (to me) to shed a lot more than nylon etc, so would that mean constant removal of fibres from the filter when doing residential?
 

Duane Oxley

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Hey, Heath...

Because you do so much wool, your situation there is something that I can't speak with much authority about. (i.e., I don't know how much wool carpets "shed"... and if that reduces over time with subsequent cleanings, etc.) My guess is that the answer is, "Yes.", but... The size of the filter would have a lot to do with that on a practical level, I would think.

The standard filter that comes with these systems is the well- known, "leaf Guard" type, adapted from the swimming pool industry here. We do have optional ones as upgrades that are substantially larger (about 8 times the capacity).

Duane
 

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