pressure Hose questions..

What type of pressure hose do you use?

  • Goodyear braided/Neptune/Butler/other name for it

    Votes: 22 52.4%
  • Parker Parflex

    Votes: 19 45.2%
  • Synflex

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • What ever Bristor is selling these days

    Votes: 4 9.5%
  • no idea what I have

    Votes: 1 2.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 7.1%

  • Total voters
    42

Mikey P

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What type of hose do you prefer?
How often do you replace?
How much do you pay?
Where do you buy it?

Whats your best horror story about when it popped at the wrong time and location?



I had Eneptune blow right into a ladies face as we were chit chatting with me leaning on my wand farmer style..
She went straight to the eye doctor but was OK.


same shit blew in a super high dollar home soaking silk wall paper and huge $$$$ oil paintings..
I got it all cleaned up and dried before they came home. They never noticed but I can still see the effects when I go back
 
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I had Eneptune blow right into a ladies face as we were chit chatting with me leaning on my wand farmer style..
She went straight to the eye doctor but was OK.

May I ask who installed the crimp coupler(s), if you know? (no need to name names, but was it a supplier/dist. or the hose manufacturer)

Without exception, I have found that nearly all coupler/hose failures on Neptune hose fall into three categories....

1) Wrong crimp fitting and/or wrong crimp spec. (e.g. people using mismatched swage fittings, or skive fittings and not skiving)...and/or
2) Replacement fitting put on hose that is out of spec capable of reliable retention or lamination. (putting a new fitting on bad hose)
3) Hose and/or fittings that are far beyond useful life or condition.

Human error, and not the hose, plays the most significant role in any of these.
 
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Mikey P

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Shawn those incidents were to long ago to remember.

Parflex usually fails about 3 to 5 inches from the crimp, pin hole leaks.
Hardly catastrophic like a Goodyear blow out can be.


The price of Parflex is $2.50 to $3.00 a foot now while Neptune can be had for $1.10 a foot or so.

I just bought two 50 ft runs of Neptune to keep at the truck end of the run.



Black Death is another subject worth bringing up.

Do you think it's caused by high solvent/pH rinses sitting in the house night after night?
 

Desk Jockey

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New customer, new to the city, million dollar home, fresh paint in the bedroom that it blew in. Stained the walls, had to pay to repaint it and had to return to spot the carpet. Fortunately it came out, it was off white a dim black splatter there for a while.

All of that was they easy part, that hard part, explaining why it happened.

During our conversation she even asked if we knew it is a problem why do we even use that hose. I had the guys pull it off the trucks that day and bought Parker every since.

She will never call us again.

How do I know this? she said "I will never call you again!" Not only did I lose her business but can you imagine what she told the "former clients" that referred us to her. :(

There are at least another 5-6 instances of black death we experienced, some cost us money, some cost us time, but they all made us look foolish for using it.

Good stuff when new, when do you toss it out? Would you have had to toss the Parker in that time too?
 
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floorguy

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nothing major....BUT

the other day I was telling my chimp to be lovey dovey with the hose, as it was getting a bit beat..
20121102_150211.jpg


anyway, as we were doing the job and I am pulling out the other sections (we were at like 250')

I pulled and pinched a section of 50' neptune, and made it bust on the door out side:hopeless::hopeless:

I just yesterday got my new 135' section, and put the fittings on today and will add it 1st job i do....(parflex)
 
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Dolly Llama

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been using Parker 20 out of 22 years

the two years I used Ineptune I had more failures than in 20 years of parker use
Parker doesn't instantly "burst" like steel braid Ineptune .
Spit fittings with ineptune was common (4 or 5 in the two years we used the crAp) but I also has one burst/split down the side of hose nowhere near the fittings


Fortunately, most of the failures happened outside or in empty ratholes , but one happened inside on a white wool berber :hopeless:
Mrs Phiff wasn't home (thank gawd) and we were able to clean up the mess off the carpet and wall


parker lasts "forever" ....and the only reason I've replace it periodically is due to becoming too "ratty looking" for res use
and when the TM end gets pin hole leaks , I cut a couple ft off and re-crimp new fittings myself

parker carries more heat to the wand, is lighter, doesn't permanently heat distort olefin where it lays on the fiber and is safer than steel braid ...period

..l.T.A.
 
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hogjowl

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25 years and never a problem with Goodyear. Of course, I never let my hose get to looking like that coiled up POS in that picture. I change them out every year or so.
 
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Mikey P

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Marty

never an issue?

no black death?
no popping?

do you rotate the inside hose to the out side or all 200 get replaced each and every year?
 

Shane T

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been using Parker 20 out of 22 years

the two years I used Ineptune I had more failures than in 20 years of parker use
Parker doesn't instantly "burst" like steel braid Ineptune .
Spit fittings with ineptune was common (4 or 5 in the two years we used the crAp) but I also has one burst/split down the side of hose nowhere near the fittings


Fortunately, most of the failures happened outside or in empty ratholes , but one happened inside on a white wool berber :hopeless:
Mrs Phiff wasn't home (thank gawd) and we were able to clean up the mess off the carpet and wall


parker lasts "forever" ....and the only reason I've replace it periodically is due to becoming too "ratty looking" for res use
and when the TM end gets pin hole leaks , I cut a couple ft off and re-crimp new fittings myself

parker carries more heat to the wand, is lighter, doesn't permanently heat distort olefin where it lays on the fiber and is safer than steel braid ...period

..l.T.A.
Where do you get your new fitting from. I had always re-crimped my own Neptune now I need to fix my Parker.
 

Loren Egland

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Are you guys all running 1/4 inch hose or 3/8 inch hose?

Many years ago I used some hose like is pictured above. It did look ratty after a while, and it was stiff.

I have had black death and had the hose burst, but still use goodyear neptune 3/8 inch. The hotter temperature seem to bring on the black death sooner. I have often wondered if 3/8 would last longer than 1/4.

I have been tempted to try different hose again, but am afraid I wouldn't like it. I assume they make it in 3/8 inch also.
 

Duane Oxley

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May I ask who installed the crimp coupler(s), if you know? (no need to name names, but was it a supplier/dist. or the hose manufacturer)

Without exception, I have found that nearly all coupler/hose failures on Neptune hose fall into three categories....

1) Wrong crimp fitting and/or wrong crimp spec. (e.g. people using mismatched swage fittings, or skive fittings and not skiving)...and/or
2) Replacement fitting put on hose that is out of spec capable of reliable retention or lamination. (putting a new fitting on bad hose)
3) Hose and/or fittings that are far beyond useful life or condition.

Human error, and not the hose, plays the most significant role in any of these.


Goodyear doesn't make crimps, unless they started recently. Typical ones used for Blue Neptune are MP04-04's by Kurt, 10143-4-4's by Parker, others by Gates, Weatherhead, etc. As a result the crimp spec's are not as specific as if the hose and crimp were made by the same company. Using the wrong crimp (like an 04U104) on Blue Neptune can be a problem. The crimp used should be rated for R1 hose.

We've been supplying Gates PowerClean for a couple of years now with no complaints. It looks like Blue Neptune and is wire reinforced like Blue Neptune.
 
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Duane,

I never said that Goodyear made crimp fittings. However, the only ones that I know of that are recommended and/or used by Goodyear are ONLY made by Anchor. When I used to deal with Goodyear, they were extremely conservative about their advice on coupler ends. Advising us to use the Anchor fittings, and if not, make sure with absolute certainty that we used a fitting designed for this type hose, and to acquire said fittings with proven crimp specifications (directions on crimping).

Gates, Weatherhead, Parker and Synflex all stated they had no fittings that they would stand behind, nor issue crimp specs for on the Neptune hose. Coupla-matic/Varicrimp was the only supplier other than Anchor who had fittings and specs (mind you, this was a few years ago). However, since then I have seen various Synflex and Parker swage fittings, designed for thermoplastic hoses, being used for Neptune hose, and seen a variety of coupling related failures in those cases. Asking Goodyear to comment, they issued a "I told ya so", to everyone who brought such cases to their attention.

I have always used a crimp (not swage) machine on either the Anchor or Varicrimp fittings, to the specs outlined by each, and have never experienced, witnessed, or heard of a hose/coupler faulted failure on hose that was (a) crimped to spec, and (b) used on hose considered serviceable, with suitable bend restrictors in place (when needed). That is not to say I haven't seen any. On occasion, old worn, clogged, rusted, falling apart fittings are replaced on hose that should never have been serviced. Neptune hose does lose dimensional and physical stability over time. You put a new crimp fitting on a well-used 2 year old hose, you better look carefully at the condition AND the ID/OD of the hose. Hose that is out of spec, swollen, softened, or cracked will likely not retain a coupler, or will permit a lamination leak to burst the outer jacket at the worst possible time (as people here have so noted).

By none of this am I disparaging thermoplastic hoses. They indeed have their strengths (and weaknesses), and their application for users. One of those being the pin-pricked covers that reveal lamination leaks long before an otherwise sealed jacket would later burst. Moreover, since thermoplastic hoses have a much longer history, and widespread application, the fittings themselves fall into distinct categories of cross applicability (e.g. a 100R1 spec fitting should work fine on any 100R1 type thermoplastic hose, regardless of brand).

And neither am I saying that if you use 100R1 fittings on Neptune hose, are you guaranteed a failure. Heck no. There are thousands of hoses out there with these fittings that work alright. Either by trial and error, dumb luck, info passed down or Kentucky windage, the person who crimped or swaged the fittings placed the fitting in a manner in which the mismatch "got everyone by". It helps too that we use the hose at a fraction of intended use capacity (pressure).

What I am saying, is that those situations where the hose does fail, and it is not attributable to extreme wear or expiration, it usually is a mismatch of hose, fitting and crimp. It is extremely rare that you see a factory (Goodyear) crimp, using an Anchor fitting with a strain relief fail before the hose or fitting is otherwise actually worn out.
 
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Duane Oxley

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Goodyear wasn't so helpful back when we carried their hose. They simply said "We don't make crimp fittings." and suggested that we use an R1 fitting. And of course, if ever there was a legal case, they probably planned to "share" the burden with the fitting manufacturer and the "crimpor", to coin a term.

Originally, they suggested that we skive the hose, but recanted that position. Not sure why they suggested it in the first place. But when we tried it, it turned out to be the absolute wrong thing to do and led to early failure at the crimp, apparently due to exposing the wire to faster corrosion.

04U104's are a good example of the thermoplastic crimps that shouldn't be used on Blue Neptune or any wire reinforced hose. They don't have internal rings around the collet (to grip the outer covering of the hose), but are smooth instead, so they tend to simply "slip off" without warning.
 
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Mikey P

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well, Im impressed with the knowledge you two have on the subject.


let me ask, if you were owner op broke dicks what would YOU use with your fire breathing truckmount?






Doug, we you actually using that hose in that condition?
 

Duane Oxley

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well, Im impressed with the knowledge you two have on the subject.

let me ask, if you were owner op broke dicks what would YOU use with your fire breathing truckmount?

Gates PowerClean, at this point. I have enough time with it to know it's good hose. And it handles 240 degrees with no issues.

We did have some Scheafer for a few months and it seemed to hold up well. But it was pretty disconcerting to see how "skinny" it was next to Blue Neptune or PowerClean, so over the long haul, I just dunno about that one.

I'm not a big thermoplastic fan. I don't like the "memory" it develops on live reels. When I first started building systems, we used Parker 540, which is a thermoplastic hydraulic hose. It didn't hold up to the heat the Hammers generated well. And Parker came out with a gold colored thermoplastic hose (1035HT) that if memory serves was named Power Clean (similar to the Gates, or vice- versa). It was supposed to be "the" hose for truckmounts and they got very frustrated with us because we sent so much of it back due to the blistering that would form on it in short order at 230 degrees.

That's when we changed over to Blue Neptune.

Addendum: I just now looked up the 1035HT and see that they've lowered the rating on it to 212 degrees, from the original higher rating. And it's rated at 1,500 PSI.
 
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FB7777

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Every November , I purchase 2 new Goodyear 120' lines for each truck.

This way may solution lines always look good and there's very little chance of an issue

$300 a year for both lines is a small price to pay for peace of mind
 

Duane Oxley

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Difficult to say. They look very similar. Gates is a bit less in diameter, but barely noticeable, unless you hold them next to each other. Haven't had any cases of "black death" with Gates... but we rarely had it with Good Year, either.

They both handle high heat very well. Gates is rated at 250 degrees and 3,000 PSI, which is higher than Blue Nep, if I remember correctly.
 

Dolly Llama

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Where do you get your new fitting from. I had always re-crimped my own Neptune now I need to fix my Parker.

Not sure i should say, Shane ..not publicly anyway, cause what i use and way i do it, isn't according to Hoyle .
I can say we're never spit a fitting in the 13-14 years I've been doing them the way i do.
we run big heat, but we rarely run over 500 psi and if someone used my method and blew a fitting due to different circumstances , I'd feel bad

I'll PM you if you want..cause i know you're mechanical and i know you have good common sense and can decide for yourself


..L.T.A.
 
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They both handle high heat very well. Gates is rated at 250 degrees and 3,000 PSI, which is higher than Blue Nep, if I remember correctly.

Neptune 3000 has the same 250 degree rating & 3000 PSI.

As to Mike's question. I would answer it the same manner as Duane. The Gates or Goodyear type, unless certain solvents are being used through the machine. The Gates and Goodyear hose both use Nitrile core tube. If the cleaner is spiking the in-tank cleaner with a delimonene based, or mineral spirit containing solvent booster, then a thermoplastic hose would be preferred. Anyway, I think that the use of these types of solvents should be limited to presprays, but still people are doing it (and getting enhanced nitrile degradation-black death).
 

Jim Martin

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What type of hose do you prefer?
goodyear

How often do you replace
once a year...(every spring)

How much do you pay?
I think it is up to $1.09 a foot (I get 200 contentious feet for each reel)

Where do you buy it?
windtrax

Whats your best horror story about when it popped at the wrong time and location?
don't have one....never have broke a hose.....
 

hogjowl

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I don't carry one huge 200' section on my truck. It is broken up into 50 ft sections. I replace the first couple of 50 ' sections on the average of about every 16 to 18 months. I put the two new sections on the back side of the reel and bring the older two sections forward.

I'll draw you a picture if you need me to.
 

Jim Martin

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he must of got a new box of color crayons in his trick or treat bucket.............
 

Shane T

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I've been using Parker now for 2 years. It's light, has better heat retention(no snake lines in carpet), and no ruptures. I still don't like the back lash when taking it off the reel. How you guys deal with this? I've thought about designing a drag for the reel.
 
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Raptor blast. Made in Austria according to a little packing slip left in a box one time. Buy it at a pressure wash supply in OK. Single wire braid, blue, lighter and smaller OD than GY-N.

Never let steel braided hose freeze with water inside them.

As noted earlier, proper selection and technique for replacing ends is critical to long safe life.

Reverse direction of hose halfway thru its expected lifetime. Evens out "flex" wear on the working end with "heat" wear on the machine end.
 

Duane Oxley

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Hmmm. We got some "Raptor Blast" a couple of years ago. It was larger diameter than Blue Nep and not as flexible. It had a clear, "PVC- like" coat over the blue. If it was made in Austria, it could have actually been a Schaefer hose. They have several factories, including locations in Austria and Turkey.
 

floorguy

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Yup I did for about the last 2 mths it's been that way....
Get to busy or just plain forget to order till I noticed it everyone I cleaned

Damnit can't get the smiles to work on my phone
 

Larry Cobb

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I have had black death and had the hose burst, but still use goodyear neptune 3/8 inch. The hotter temperature seem to bring on the black death sooner. I have often wondered if 3/8 would last longer than 1/4.

I have been tempted to try different hose again, but am afraid I wouldn't like it. I assume they make it in 3/8 inch also.

The high temperature is probably the major factor in the "black death" failure.

3/8" Hose is not necessary unless you are running long distances or very high flow.

Larry
 

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