PSI ATW

[ACE]

My pressure at the wand seemed weak on the Steamway. I spent allot of time descaling and troubleshooting the machine. The issue turned out to be a bad pressure gage on the machine. I found this by using a test gage mounted to a quick connect. I decided to hook it up to a solution line splitter right off the wand. 500 PSI pressure, but only around 200-250 PSI when the wand is keyed. I have heard temperature at the wand discussed allot but never PSI at the wand. PSI ATW seems like a good way to measure what’s really hitting the carpet because there are allot of factors that can make PSI drop before it hits the wand: hose length, pump limitations, scale / restrictions in plumbing. For truck mounted cleaning, 150-250 ATW seems ideal depending on how the jets are set up. Be careful if you try this because the PSI gages are not rated for much heat.

 

[GeneMiller]

at the machine 600 with the drop i would guess 500 at the wand. i typically run 150' of solution line and when i hit the trigger the gauge at the machine will drop 100 psi running 16 flow. 150-200 sounds very low to me.

gene

 

[ACE]

at the machine 600 with the drop i would guess 500 at the wand. i typically run 150' of solution line and when i hit the trigger the gauge at the machine will drop 100 psi running 16 flow. 150-200 sounds very low to me.

gene

The static pressure would be about the same as the machine.

At 500-600 PSI with 16 flow you should be putting down 5-6 GPM. That’s close to the capacity of most pumps. How much water do you really think you can push through the 150’ of 1/4” line at 600 PSI?

Hook up a gage ATW. I bet you are getting 125-175 PSI when you trigger that wand at most.

Don’t get me wrong, I am a big fan of high flow VS. high PSI. I’m just saying that the devil is in the details when it comes to vac, PSI and dry times. You can’t just throw around general PSI numbers because there are too many factors in play. Taking readings ATW reveals allot.

I wish greenie still posted here. He really opened up my eyes and made me think about what I was doing. It's no wonder so many people think HWE stays wet for days. There are allot of guys soaking carpets becuse they don't get it.

 

[dgardner]

Hook up a gage ATW. I bet you are getting 125-175 PSI when you trigger that wand at most. You are right on about this - the pressure ATW will be right at 150 psi for a 100' hose.

At 500-600 PSI with 16 flow you should be putting down 5-6 GPM. You need to re-think this statement - look at a standard nozzle chart for 16 jets at 150 psi - flow will be just a squeak above 3 gpm.

I am impressed, most folks hugely underestimate pressure loss for hose and fittings. Here is a hand-drawn chart I posted a while ago that gives approximate flows for jets at the end of a 100' hose:

http://www.mikeysboard.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=103&t=46653

(it's the second chart, after the standard nozzle chart)

 

[Larry Cobb]

As Dave mentions . . .

most people underestimate the pressure losses in a TM system.

I checked a coiled tubing HX the other day that had over 140 PSI loss @ 1.5 GPM.

Hoses, crimps, QC's & jet check valves add to those losses.

Thermoplastic hoses are slightly better than wire-braid.

On our TM's, we operate a higher pressures (550 PSI ATM) than most manufacturers to maintain pressure at the jets.

Larry

 

[ACE]

On our TM's, we operate a higher pressures (550 PSI ATM) than most manufacturers to maintain pressure at the jets.

Larry

550 PSI with what wand?
That could be way too much or on the low side depending on hose run, wand and jets ect.

I am seeing allot of guys around here penetrating the backing of carpet because someone told them it was safe to clean at 500-600 PSI. Every time this happens it’s a black eye on our industry.

So, Please be very careful with PSI recommendations.

 

[FLYERMAN]

I clean at 500 to 600 atm and my dry times are under 8 hours and sometimes well under.

BTW "allot" is spelled "a lot"

 

[Ken Snow]

We have no issues with dry times~ analness about psi at various points seems pointless. Get the darn carpet super clean and dry enough to dry within a few hours, collect payment and move on.

 

[floorguy]

On our TM's, we operate a higher pressures (550 PSI ATM) than most manufacturers to maintain pressure at the jets.

Larry

550 PSI with what wand?
That could be way too much or on the low side depending on hose run, wand and jets ect.

I am seeing allot of guys around here penetrating the backing of carpet because someone told them it was safe to clean at 500-600 PSI. Every time this happens it’s a black eye on our industry.

So, Please be very careful with PSI recommendations.

Thats cuz those hacks still use jets that point straight down...

 

[ACE]

I clean at 500 to 600 atm and my dry times are under 8 hours and sometimes well under.

BTW "allot" is spelled "a lot"

8 hour dry times is not really impressive in an arid climate like Utah.
Thanks for proof reading my post. PRICK

Thats cuz those hacks still use jets that point straight down...

You can get good results with straight down jets, just got to turn down the pressure a bit.

 

[Dolly Llama]

You can get good results with straight down jets, just got to turn down the pressure a bit.

'zaccally

we've run a Ti for quite a few years
but the truth is, if back strain relievers weren't available , the Ti would be shelved and we'd go back to cheap AW29 wands and run @ 250-300 psi w/06 jetting


..L.T.A.

 

[floorguy]

You can get good results with straight down jets, just got to turn down the pressure a bit.

'zaccally

we've run a Ti for quite a few years
but the truth is, if back strain relievers weren't available , the Ti would be shelved and we'd go back to cheap AW29 wands and run @ 250-300 psi w/06 jetting


..L.T.A.

So are we cleaning the carpet or spritzing it :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

I go back to the shower head theory.....

i am sure everyone has used that shitty water saver one that spits at ya.... :x :x :x :x :x :x :x

Personally i dont think i fill all that clean or rinsed with that thing...give me the full flow anyday shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin


same with wands

 

[Dolly Llama]

So are we cleaning the carpet or spritzing it :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:

I go back to the shower head theory.....

i am sure everyone has used that shitty water saver one that spits at ya.... :x :x :x :x :x :x :x

Personally i dont think i fill all that clean or rinsed with that thing...give me the full flow anyday shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin


same with wands

Doug, i promise to take your advise on VCT jobs (seriously)
but brother, we probably see more trashed rentals in year than most BD's see in 5.



Our Ti flows 2 GPM @450psi .
When it's time to change jets, I'll go back to no more than 09 flow
I also "know" what an AW29 wand with 06 jetting will do @ 350 psi.
it's a damn good cleaning wand ..just not a "prestigious" wand like a Ti or a board de jour wand like the grEenhOrN

The "fire hose flow" is a board de jour phenomenon that was started by Greenie
(who some of you revere as a gOOroo gawd)

I'm just not a "board de jour" kind of guy.
I "know" what works for us , cause i actually put in the time and do my own homework .
I've done that since day one for over 20 years when i went full time

the fire hose flow is a waste of water ...if it works some of youinz, great.
It's simply not needed for us


..L.T.A.

 

[floorguy]

well i was never anyone who said my way or the highway...

and i to did my homework...and i love the "fire hose" !gotcha! !gotcha! !gotcha!

with that said i may go back to a 12 when i change them out, i just hate those damn small holes on the jets....even with filters, they get shit in them...


ALSO, i bought the hi rise thermometor and well try it out next week (going up to scout camp tomorrow 8) 8) 8) )


my RX has 5 #2s...did a house today and was damn near dry when i left...no dry passes....

Granted there are things the board dejur did that ehhhh.....but high(er) flow and bigg(er) hose of the truck with less restriction, has helped me tons... And got me a few jobs along the way, cuz i could FLUSH that shit outa their carpet.....wick backs WTF are wick backs 8) 8) 8) 8)

 

[Dolly Llama]

with that said i may go back to a 12 when i change them out, i just hate those damn small holes on the jets....even with filters, they get shit in them...

that was THE biggest PITA when we first got our Ti
they come with 06 flow ( six X 01 jets)
We never had that problem with 03's on our two jet wands

we started flushing the line at start up.
it made ALL the difference in the world
if you're not doing that now, try it.

Plug in a naked QD on the solution line and stick it in the vac hose.
then go fire up the TM.
by the time you walk back in, the line will be flushed and ready to hook to the wand .

if you work with a wingman, just make sure someone allows it to flush for 20-30 seconds or so
(and maybe just a little longer for longer/longest hose runs)


..L.T.A.

 

[floorguy]

oh i do, because of the propane heater, to flush the crap out....granted not the section that goes in....

 

[bob vawter]

"fire hose flow"

is a term from my BM scale....
and is copyrighted! Ivebeensold

 

[Dolly Llama]

oh i do, because of the propane heater, to flush the crap out....granted not the section that goes in....

there's crAp in the solution line too

try it, you'll like it !gotcha!


..l.T.A.

 

[dgardner]

"fire hose flow"

is a term from my BM scale....
and is copyrighted! Ivebeensold

© 2011 Bob Vawter

 

[bob vawter]

"fire hose flow"

is a term from my BM scale....
and is copyrighted! Ivebeensold

© 2011 Bob Vawter

LOL..thank you!