Reducers

Willy P

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Willy P
Who uses them? How? Do they work better with or without heat? Only on synthetic dye spots? Have any trouble with colour loss? Help an old man understand better.
 
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Larry Cobb

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Larry Cobb
DyeRemoval.jpg

We use several of them for removing Dye Stains:

Nothing more effective on any synthetic or disperse dye spot . . .

with an experienced technician . . .

Video Link : http://bcove.me/j2bzbqag
 
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Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
5,856
Location
California
Name
Shawn Forsythe
An understanding of Reducing agents requires an understanding of chemical color removal by the Oxidation process as well. This is because you need to know the comparative applicability of each. That is to say, "why you choose a reducer, and when", as well as knowing the potential use of both, in situations of unknown stains. Performing procedures and selection incorrectly, could advance stain setting...which happens all t0o often when your customer gets to the spot, before you do (don't be like him). In context here, the term "stain setting" is the heat or chemical transformation of a spot, wherein the resultant stain, then meets or exceeds the removal colorfastness of the fiber's original applied color dyes.



Oxidizers and Reducers
A short clinic on the differentiation and use in spotting.


Preface
Stain Guides are the preferred means for directed activity when using any reducers or oxidizers. This is because individual chemistry of reactants and accelerants vary between manufacturers of prepared products. These guides take into account these variances and give individual instruction to process so as to avoid unpredictable results.

As a general rule, spots should always be cleaned using an emulsification or solvent extraction to remove all removable components aside from actual chemical action. Heat and acidity should be avoided to ensure that spots which are not set, do not evolve into stains which are more difficult to address.

What creates color in a chemical (stain or spot)?

Chemicals that exhibit a color do so because a part of the molecules interact with light to absorb certain wavelengths, or to reflect them. They can also alter wavelengths, so that a color, which is not present in the incident light, is reflected back as changed to another color. If a chemical substance exhibits a color, the portion of the molecule that exhibits the color is called a “chromophore”:

Certain molecules have an affinity to fibers, either due to physical properties, such as stickiness, particle shape, or by an electro-chemical bond. Emulsifier and solvent textile cleaning is used to break physical bonds, and suspend soil(spot) elements in water or some other solvent, so that it can be extracted by vacuum or abs
orption(towel).

These cleaning process are sometimes ineffective if the spot contains a staining element. A staining element is a portion of the spot, which cannot be removed by emulsification or solvent cleaning.

One means to “clear” a staining element is by bleaching. A bleach alters the stain element’s chromophore in such a manner, as to then render it colorless.

Types of Bleaches
There are several types of bleach, but most fall into two classes. That being oxidizers and reducers. Oxidizers either add oxygen or gain electrons from a reactant, while reducers remove oxygen or lose electrons to the reactant (information only, not important to know the exact distinction to be successful). The net result is that chromophore gets changed. Most chromophore "clearing" responds only to one type of bleach, or the other.

Chlorine bleach usually contains the oxidizer, sodium hypochlorite. However, due to problems with fiber degradation, unpredictable results, and residual activity, sodium hypochlorite is almost never used in carpet or upholstery spotting.

Oxygen bleach contains hydrogen peroxide or a peroxide-releasing compound such as sodium perborate or sodium percarbonate. Other bleaching agents include sodium persulfate, sodium perphosphate, sodium persilicate, their ammonium, potassium and lithium analogs, calcium peroxide, zinc peroxide, sodium peroxide, carbamide peroxide, chlorine dioxide, bromate, and organic peroxides (e.g., benzoyl peroxide).
Most oxygen bleaches work best in hot water. Additives such as tetra acetyl ethylene diamine allow the hydrogen peroxide to work in warm water (50° C). I mention this, as it is one of the reasons to use a prepared-for-carpet formulation, rather than substituting a cheaper alternative (Sally's hair peroxide)

While most bleaches are oxidizing agents, other processes can be used to remove color. For example, sodium dithionite is a powerful reducing agent that can be used as a bleach.

How a bleach works
Oxidizing bleaches, like hydrogen peroxide, break the molecules at the double bond of a chromophore. This results in either a shorter molecule that does not absorb visible light, or a molecule whose chromophore is either shorter or non-existent. A shorter chromophore will absorb light of a shorter wavelength than visible light (such as ultraviolet light), and so does not appear colored.
Reducing bleaches, such as sodium bisulfite or sulfur dioxide, convert the double bonds in the chromophore into single bonds, eliminating its ability to absorb any of the visible light spectrum. Sometimes the reaction is reversible, where oxygen in the air reacts with the molecule to repair the chromophore, and the stain returns. (this why some bleaching actions require subsequent rinsing, e.g. rust stains.)
In addition to chemicals, energy can disrupt chemical bonds to bleach out color. For example, the high-energy photons in sunlight (e.g., ultraviolet rays) can disrupt the bonds in chromophores to decolorize them.

Several molecular structures and physical phenomena give rise to color or darkening on a fiber. Molecular structures containing conjugated centers of unsaturation (double bonds) such as phenols and carbonyls all cause vibration of bonds by light wavelengths, shifting absorption of light from the invisible or colorless ultraviolet range to the visible light range. By breaking up the conjugated system, colored compounds become colorless, i.e. stains become invisible. This can be accomplished by breaking or saturating the double bonds. The carbonyl groups can be reduced to alcohols, or oxidized to carboxylic acids, both colorless compounds.

When to Bleach
Bleaching is done when physical removal and emulsification cleaning has ceased to be effective at rendering a satisfactory removal of the spot. It is said that a spot becomes a stain when chemical alteration of the spot element is required to render the spot non-conspicuous. This does not always mean removal. Bleaching often means simple alteration of the spot element to no longer visible. The spot may still be there, but is no longer able to be seen.

The type of stain will help to determine if bleaching will be effective. Fresh stains of an organic nature with very little penetration into the fibers or pigmentation are usually successfully removed by cleaning methods without the use of bleaching. As a rule of thumb, stains, which have been in a fabric for more than three months, are usually considered 'set'. This means that usually they have successfully bonded, or reacted with the fibers to an extent that the substance is not removable or alterable.

How to Bleach
Both oxidizing bleaches and reducer bleaches are either sold as two part components, or 1-part solutions utilize the actual staining element as part of the activation media.
Oxidizing compounds are generally unstable. So packaging of product is done to minimize the off gassing of oxygen during storage. This is often accomplished through maintaining purity of relatively stable compositions, and then adding destabilizers to then cause the oxidizer to liberate the elemental oxygen, that is then free to react with the staining element.
Using a small amount of an alkaline (such as ammonia) to an oxidizer causes the release of greater amounts of oxygen. An alkaline will accelerate oxidizing bleaches.
Using a small amount of an acid (such as acetic acid) to a reducing agent hastens the reduction reaction. Acids accelerate reducing agents.
One should be aware that natural fibers like wool & cotton are susceptible to damage from chemical reactions. Sodium Percarbonate, often used for its oxidizer properties, is a fairly strong alkaline (sodium Carbonate. Alkalinity on natural fibers tends to degrade them. In these cases, using an oxidizer without a high degree of alkalinity is preferred, such as Hydrogen Peroxide. The peroxide can be accelerated with either heat or UV. U.V. is by all means to the preferred method IF the stain material is unknown.

Acceleration of bleaching action

Oxidizers:
Heat
Alkaline
Ultraviolet Light


Reducers:
Heat
Acid



Basic chart of known stains and first choice to remove

Reducers

Betadine/Iodine (Oxidizers will often work also)
Candy (Red Food dye) **
Kool Aid (red)
Cough Syrup – red
Hair Dye
Hi-lighter –Yellow or Green


Oxidizers

Wine
Blood
Coffee**
Tea**
Cough Syrup-Yellow
Curry (needs accelerant)
Feces**
Highlighter red or blue
Ink**
Mold & Mildew stains
Dispersed Dyes (Mustard, Curry, Turmeric)
Real Fruit Juice
Permanent Marker**
Plant Stains**
Toilet Bowl blue
Urine**
Vomit**

Chocolate**

** Require supplemental action in addition to oxidation/reduction decoloring(i.e. emulsisification and/or solvent removal).

Most any spot and staining element requires detergent and solvent preconditioning and subsequent extraction, using water as a rinse agent.

Reducing agents are often vastly improved with heat. Therefore, use of a steam iron, or a steamer is often indicated. Newer product formulations are now available that lessen the need for additional heat.

Unknown Stains and order of trial

Because heat and acidity are both part and parcel to reducing procedures, they are used LAST in any situation where you may choose to use one or both methods of bleaching. Therefore, always use the oxidizer first, and then gauge the reaction. Extract, and then use the reducing agent. OXIDIZER FIRST, THEN REDUCER

There are exceptions to this rule. Consult stain guides for individual product lines.


Example: DO NOT apply an oxidizing agent such as Hydrogen Peroxide or a high P.H. enzyme to hair dye stains. It will only intensify them.


Additional notes:

Oxygen bleaches often work by liberating oxygen in a manner by which an effervescing does occur. effervescing is the emission of small bubbles. The physical manifestation and collapse of these bubbles create a monumental physical action at a very microscopic level. This physical action creates a great deal of movement, or agitation to soils of the 1-4 micron range. This aids greatly in removal, and is the basis for soil removal of popular processes, such as CD. This same action can be of help, in addition to oxidation, for removal of soiling such as filtration.

As discussed, alkali accelerates hydrogen peroxide’s liberation of oxygen. But almost any contaminant will cause a reaction, and not always a good one. Certain acids can have some unpredictable results if combined with hydrogen peroxide. So it is best not to experiment with any acids “on hand” in any manner, to achieve a desired effect. For example, if one uses acetic acid in an effort to accelerate hydrogen peroxide, some of the reaction will create another compound called peroxyacetic acid. Peracetic (peroxyacetic) acid is a highly corrosive organic peroxide that will bleach out most any dye, and degrade natural fibers. Many people who have used this combination literally bleach out all color and ruin the fibers.

Hydrogen peroxide and ammonium hydroxide: Ammonium hydroxide is among the fastest & controlled means to liberate the oxygen from H2O2.

IMPORTANT:
The addition of heat, while many times a benefit for the action of a reducer, can be very unpredictable when used contrary to the formula's instructions. Heat used with a Reducer, on a stain better removed by oxidation, in some instances, can cause setting. Subsequent use of an oxidizer may then be far less, or not effective.

Additionally, heat when used with an oxidizer can lead to partial or total color loss. One should only apply heat to an oxidizer, if the product's instructions specifically indicate that it is correct and safe to do so.

Some fibers, especially natural fibers, require very specialized oxidizers and reducers to allay chemical degradation of fibers (and dyes). Know your products, and the fibers on which they are to be used.

Never, ever, mix an oxidizer and a reducing agent together. Not only will they will not then function, the chemical reaction can be dangerous. Always thoroughly rinse the fibers between switched/different product procedures.
 

cleanking

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Joined
Feb 27, 2013
Messages
473
Location
Indianapolis, IN
Name
Jordan King
An understanding of Reducing agents requires an understanding of chemical color removal by the Oxidation process as well. This is because you need to know the comparative applicability of each. That is to say, "why you choose a reducer, and when", as well as knowing the potential use of both, in situations of unknown stains. Performing procedures and selection incorrectly, could advance stain setting...which happens all t0o often when your customer gets to the spot, before you do (don't be like him). In context here, the term "stain setting" is the heat or chemical transformation of a spot, wherein the resultant stain, then meets or exceeds the removal colorfastness of the fiber's original applied color dyes.



Oxidizers and Reducers
A short clinic on the differentiation and use in spotting.


Preface
Stain Guides are the preferred means for directed activity when using any reducers or oxidizers. This is because individual chemistry of reactants and accelerants vary between manufacturers of prepared products. These guides take into account these variances and give individual instruction to process so as to avoid unpredictable results.

As a general rule, spots should always be cleaned using an emulsification or solvent extraction to remove all removable components aside from actual chemical action. Heat and acidity should be avoided to ensure that spots which are not set, do not evolve into stains which are more difficult to address.

What creates color in a chemical (stain or spot)?

Chemicals that exhibit a color do so because a part of the molecules interact with light to absorb certain wavelengths, or to reflect them. They can also alter wavelengths, so that a color, which is not present in the incident light, is reflected back as changed to another color. If a chemical substance exhibits a color, the portion of the molecule that exhibits the color is called a “chromophore”:

Certain molecules have an affinity to fibers, either due to physical properties, such as stickiness, particle shape, or by an electro-chemical bond. Emulsifier and solvent textile cleaning is used to break physical bonds, and suspend soil(spot) elements in water or some other solvent, so that it can be extracted by vacuum or abs
orption(towel).

These cleaning process are sometimes ineffective if the spot contains a staining element. A staining element is a portion of the spot, which cannot be removed by emulsification or solvent cleaning.

One means to “clear” a staining element is by bleaching. A bleach alters the stain element’s chromophore in such a manner, as to then render it colorless.

Types of Bleaches
There are several types of bleach, but most fall into two classes. That being oxidizers and reducers. Oxidizers either add oxygen or gain electrons from a reactant, while reducers remove oxygen or lose electrons to the reactant (information only, not important to know the exact distinction to be successful). The net result is that chromophore gets changed. Most chromophore "clearing" responds only to one type of bleach, or the other.

Chlorine bleach usually contains the oxidizer, sodium hypochlorite. However, due to problems with fiber degradation, unpredictable results, and residual activity, sodium hypochlorite is almost never used in carpet or upholstery spotting.

Oxygen bleach contains hydrogen peroxide or a peroxide-releasing compound such as sodium perborate or sodium percarbonate. Other bleaching agents include sodium persulfate, sodium perphosphate, sodium persilicate, their ammonium, potassium and lithium analogs, calcium peroxide, zinc peroxide, sodium peroxide, carbamide peroxide, chlorine dioxide, bromate, and organic peroxides (e.g., benzoyl peroxide).
Most oxygen bleaches work best in hot water. Additives such as tetra acetyl ethylene diamine allow the hydrogen peroxide to work in warm water (50° C).

While most bleaches are oxidizing agents, other processes can be used to remove color. For example, sodium dithionite is a powerful reducing agent that can be used as a bleach.

How a bleach works
Oxidizing bleaches, like hydrogen peroxide, break the molecules at the double bond of a chromophore. This results in either a shorter molecule that does not absorb visible light, or a molecule whose chromophore is either shorter or non-existent. A shorter chromophore will absorb light of a shorter wavelength than visible light (such as ultraviolet light), and so does not appear colored.
Reducing bleaches, such as sodium bisulfite or sulfur dioxide, convert the double bonds in the chromophore into single bonds, eliminating its ability to absorb any of the visible light spectrum. Sometimes the reaction is reversible, where oxygen in the air reacts with the molecule to repair the chromophore, and the stain returns. (this why some bleaching actions require subsequent rinsing, e.g. rust stains.)
In addition to chemicals, energy can disrupt chemical bonds to bleach out color. For example, the high-energy photons in sunlight (e.g., ultraviolet rays) can disrupt the bonds in chromophores to decolorize them.

Several molecular structures and physical phenomena give rise to color or darkening on a fiber. Molecular structures containing conjugated centers of unsaturation (double bonds) such as phenols and carbonyls all cause vibration of bonds by light wavelengths, shifting absorption of light from the invisible or colorless ultraviolet range to the visible light range. By breaking up the conjugated system, colored compounds become colorless, i.e. stains become invisible. This can be accomplished by breaking or saturating the double bonds. The carbonyl groups can be reduced to alcohols, or oxidized to carboxylic acids, both colorless compounds.

When to Bleach
Bleaching is done when physical removal and emulsification cleaning has ceased to be effective at rendering a satisfactory removal of the spot. It is said that a spot becomes a stain when chemical alteration of the spot element is required to render the spot non-conspicuous. This does not always mean removal. Bleaching often means simple alteration of the spot element to no longer visible. The spot may still be there, but is no longer able to be seen.

The type of stain will help to determine if bleaching will be effective. Fresh stains of an organic nature with very little penetration into the fibers or pigmentation are usually successfully removed by cleaning methods without the use of bleaching. As a rule of thumb, stains, which have been in a fabric for more than three months, are usually considered 'set'. This means that usually they have successfully bonded, or reacted with the fibers to an extent that the substance is not removable or alterable.

How to Bleach
Both oxidizing bleaches and reducer bleaches are either sold as two part components, or 1-part solutions utilize the actual staining element as part of the activation media.
Oxidizing compounds are generally unstable. So packaging of product is done to minimize the off gassing of oxygen during storage. This is often accomplished through maintaining purity of relatively stable compositions, and then adding destabilizers to then cause the oxidizer to liberate the elemental oxygen, that is then free to react with the staining element.
Using a small amount of an alkaline (such as ammonia) to an oxidizer causes the release of greater amounts of oxygen. An alkaline will accelerate oxidizing bleaches.
Using a small amount of an acid (such as acetic acid) to a reducing agent hastens the reduction reaction. Acids accelerate reducing agents.
One should be aware that natural fibers like wool & cotton are susceptible to damage from chemical reactions. Sodium Percarbonate, often used for its oxidizer properties, is a fairly strong alkaline (sodium Carbonate. Alkalinity on natural fibers tends to degrade them. In these cases, using an oxidizer without a high degree of alkalinity is preferred, such as Hydrogen Peroxide. The peroxide can be accelerated with either heat or UV. U.V. is by all means to the preferred method IF the stain material is unknown.

Acceleration of bleaching action

Oxidizers:
Heat
Alkaline
Ultraviolet Light


Reducers:
Heat
Acid



Basic chart of known stains and first choice to remove

Reducers

Betadine/Iodine (Oxidizers will often work also)
Candy (Red Food dye) **
Kool Aid (red)
Cough Syrup – red
Hair Dye
Hi-lighter –Yellow or Green


Oxidizers

Wine
Blood
Coffee**
Tea**
Cough Syrup-Yellow
Curry (needs accelerant)
Feces**
Highlighter red or blue
Ink**
Mold & Mildew stains
Dispersed Dyes (Mustard, Curry, Turmeric)
Real Fruit Juice
Permanent Marker**
Plant Stains**
Toilet Bowl blue
Urine**
Vomit**

Chocolate**

** Require supplemental action in addition to oxidation/reduction decoloring(i.e. emulsisification and/or solvent removal).

Most any spot and staining element requires detergent and solvent preconditioning and subsequent extraction, using water as a rinse agent.

Reducing agents are often vastly improved with heat. Therefore, use of a steam iron, or a steamer is often indicated. Newer product formulations are now available that lessen the need for additional heat.

Unknown Stains and order of trial

Because heat and acidity are both part and parcel to reducing procedures, they are used LAST in any situation where you may choose to use one or both methods of bleaching. Therefore, always use the oxidizer first, and then gauge the reaction. Extract, and then use the reducing agent. OXIDIZER FIRST, THEN REDUCER

There are exceptions to this rule. Consult stain guides for individual product lines.


Example: DO NOT apply an oxidizing agent such as Hydrogen Peroxide or a high P.H. enzyme to hair dye stains. It will only intensify them.


Additional notes:

Oxygen bleaches often work by liberating oxygen in a manner by which an effervescing does occur. effervescing is the emission of small bubbles. The physical manifestation and collapse of these bubbles create a monumental physical action at a very microscopic level. This physical action creates a great deal of movement, or agitation to soils of the 1-4 micron range. This aids greatly in removal, and is the basis for soil removal of popular processes, such as CD. This same action can be of help, in addition to oxidation, for removal of soiling such as filtration.

As discussed, alkali accelerates hydrogen peroxide’s liberation of oxygen. But almost any contaminant will cause a reaction, and not always a good one. Certain acids can have some unpredictable results if combined with hydrogen peroxide. So it is best not to experiment with any acids “on hand” in any manner, to achieve a desired effect. For example, if one uses acetic acid in an effort to accelerate hydrogen peroxide, some of the reaction will create another compound called peroxyacetic acid. Peracetic (peroxyacetic) acid is a highly corrosive organic peroxide that will bleach out most any dye, and degrade natural fibers. Many people who have used this combination literally bleach out all color and ruin the fibers.

Hydrogen peroxide and ammonium hydroxide: Ammonium hydroxide is among the fastest & controlled means to liberate the oxygen from H2O2.

IMPORTANT:
The addition of heat, while many times a benefit for the action of a reducer, can be very unpredictable when used contrary to the formula's instructions. Heat used with a Reducer, on a stain far better removed by oxidation, can, in some instances, cause setting. Subsequent use of an oxidixer may then be far less effective.

Additionally, heat when used with an oxidizer can lead to partial or total color loss. One should only apply heat to an oxidizer, if the product's instructions specifically indicate that it is correct and safe to do so.

Some fibers, especially natural fibers, require very specialized oxidizers and reducers to allay chemical degradation of fibers (and dyes). Know your products, and the fibers on which they are to be used.

Never, ever, mix an oxidizer and a reducing agent together. Not only will they will not then function, the chemical reaction can be dangerous. Always thoroughly rinse the fibers after, if between switched product procedures.

Could you be more specific?
 
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ruff

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Ofer Kolton
Great article and very helpful Shawn. Thank you.

Chemspec (I think) used to have a product called "Spray & Go". It was for coffee stains and if I am not mistaken was a reducer.
That is also my experience, that reducers work on coffee stains pretty well. Not quickly.
 
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Shawn Forsythe
So is ammonia a reducer?

No, not in the chemistry we are describing. Without getting deeply technical with the chemistry, "Ammonia", actually Ammonium Hydroxide is used along with a catalyst to "accelerate" the instability of peroxides to "release" oxygen . Here, it is typically used with Hydrogen Peroxide. The type of catalyst controls the speed of the reaction (often the stain itself is a contributor).
 
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jcooper

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Here, it is typically used with Hydrogen Peroxide. The type of catalyst controls the speed of the reaction (often the stain itself is a contributor).

So, the Hydrogen Peroxide still does the work the Ammonia just makes it happen faster?

Is the Ammonia actually necessary if time is not a factor?

Thanks!
 
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So, the Hydrogen Peroxide still does the work the Ammonia just makes it happen faster?

Is the Ammonia actually necessary if time is not a factor?

Thanks!

The answer depends entirely on the nature of the stain. In some cases, only very light oxidation is needed to de-color the stain. As well, the stain matter itself may contribute to peroxide degradation, wherein again, plain peroxide is all that is necessary. Some cleaners also use highly concentrated Hydrogen Peroxide, to create sufficient oxygen production. The problem is control. If the stain or soil in the carpet acts as a quick de-stabilizer, AND the cleaner uses too a high concentration, then the carpet dye may be at risk, and you'll pull color. Personally, I do not favor the "nuke and pray" method, that relies on occasional subsequent color correction to fix. Other Cleaners just unprofessionally explain their "bathtub chemistry" failures by an evasion of responsibility, for what they term as consequences beyond their control ("sorry, I did my best-it was the stain's fault").

There is also the factor of oxygen concentration. Application of a only Hydrogen Peroxide, of appropriate concentration, may "offgas"so slowly that subtle air currents carry any meaningful usable oxygen away before the product application evaporates. As well, is the problem of observable progress. If the progress is slowed to the point of being practically non-observable, then how do you know it's even working? Additionally, how do you get a customer to pay, when he/she sees nothing working before you leave.

Probably the best reason to use an industry specific carpet-tested formula that is created to have safe, controlled and rapid results.



p.s. The last few years have brought many one-part Hydrogen Peroxide based oxidizer stain removers to the market. These products use a combination of select stabilizers that provide shelf life, and a stain-contaminant triggered accelerator. Advances in other detergent additives also aid the product in bringing the oxidation effects more directly to the stain matter.
 

ruff

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Personally, I do not favor the "nuke and pray" method, that relies on occasional subsequent color correction to fix. Other Cleaners just unprofessionally explain their "bathtub chemistry" failures by an evasion of responsibility, for what they term as consequences beyond their control ("sorry, I did my best-it was the stain's fault").

Neither most of us, but we live in the real world.

The issue also boils down to time.
In the old days, we were supposed to do the three cycles of spotting. Very time consuming. Not practical in most cases.

Are we willing to do (is the client willing to pay?) all the necessary steps as Shawn describes?

Are we really going to do a cold cycle, detergent, solvent before the cleaning of a coffee stain, flush, than use an oxidizer and or reducer, flush , control progress etc. Most clients are not willing to pay for our time. Most cleaners will not do it. I can see spending the time on a couple of stains, not when there's a zillion little ones, like it is many times in reality.
  • Not practical.
  • Client is not willing to pay.
  • Not gonna happen.
So we make a compromise. We do not do every single step by the "book". And we do it smartly, which means that we assess risk and use judgement that is a result of experience. Otherwise, twenty years later, we may still be on our first job.
 
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Larry Cobb

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Neither most of us, but we live in the real world.

The issue also boils down to time.
In the old days, we were supposed to do the three cycles of spotting. Very time consuming. Not practical in most cases.

Are we willing to do (is the client willing to pay?) all the necessary steps as Shawn describes?

Exactly, all the steps are not required .

The video in post #2 above showed removal of three aged food color dye stains
in about 40 seconds.
 
Last edited:

Cleanworks

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Larry, do you rinse or apply anything to stop the reducing process? I have used a product called streepene (a Powder available from dry cleaning suppliers) added acetic acid (browning treatment) and watched the stains fade away. When the majority of the stain has gone, I rinse to stop the process otherwise it will continue to pull color out of the carpet. Where in BC can I get dynachem?
 
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Willy P

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Were you getting the streepene from Tesslers Ron? Maybe we could get a big enough order that good ol' Uncle Larry would help us out. Shipping from Texas is really expensive to this corner of the world. (Did I mention Larry is my favourite uncle?;))
 

Cleanworks

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I think you can get it from prairie distributors in richmond still. I still have a jar left but it is very unpredictable. I would like to try Larry's product if you want to ord some I will go in with you.
 

Larry Cobb

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HWE is OK,

but I would just apply room temp water to stop the spotting activity.

We are dealing with strong spotters with this process.
 

KevinD

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Kevin Dumas
HWE is OK,
but I would just apply room temp water to stop the spotting activity.
We are dealing with strong spotters with this process.

Another couple questions:
With the 4 quarts I ordered came a sheet of directions.

#4 under Usage says when stain is 80% removed; extract and rinse with warm water.
WHY 80%

#6 says due to limited shelf life, we are including enough reactivation powder for several reactivations
but no powder included nor any instructions on when it is necessary to reactivate.

I went through all the packing peanuts one by one but could not find anything included.
 

GeeeAus

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This is Gold. Post this on the Australian pages and they descend into a frothy chaos.

Kittens die.
Virgins are sacrificed

This page rocks.

And Shawn that was the best, most descriptive, most well explained stain removal chemistrybI have ever read.

Grant - who loves that he cleans likes the wolves, not the roos.
 
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Larry Cobb

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Larry Cobb
Another couple questions:

#4 under Usage says when stain is 80% removed; extract and rinse with warm water.
WHY 80%

#6 says due to limited shelf life, we are including enough reactivation powder for several reactivations
but no powder included nor any instructions on when it is necessary to reactivate.

#4 We say when the stain is 80% removed to start the rinsing process. The reducing action will continue to remove the last 20% of the stain.

#6 Currently, we recommend activation when you 1st use the product. Then every week or whenever the results are less than expected.

We do not recommend heat with normal spotting.
and acids DO NOT accelerate this reducer.

Note: We also have this strong reducing agent in a powder from with less odor.
 

GCCLee

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Location
East TN
Name
C. Lee
Why is there not a print option for posts?

That article Shawn posted, is Genious!!

Atleast for anyone whom understands it lol

Email me that Brotha, Please : )
 

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