Jtuseo
Member
I am thinking of getting one. Does anyone here have one or have any feed back for me.
Savage Electric Truckmounts
- Thread starter Jtuseo
- Start date
Mikey P
Administrator
What about them appeals to you?
Jtuseo
Member
I'm in NYC and i really do not need such a big unit. I like the fact I can put one in a 6 cylinder astro van. diesel is $4 per gallon now in NY. If I can clean well with this type of system it would work great for me. I use a ninja portable 50% of the time and it cleans just as good as my butler system. The Butler is just more efficient. When i use the butler it costs me $6.50 per hour it runs.
Mikey P
Administrator
I would imagine you would have no problem earning $150 and hour in the Big Apple.
Is six dollars and fifty cents an hour that big a deal?
Is six dollars and fifty cents an hour that big a deal?
Jtuseo
Member
The Preacher
Member
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2006
- Messages
- 3,401
i'm sure Butler's NOT happy to see that in print. i thought all you Butler guys we're koolaid drinkers???
PS contact David Gargan from his profile on here, he had one, and migjt still???
PPS i met Bob Savage a few times and was impressed with his knowledge and professionalism. His units looked very nice and he seems to always look for ways to make his units better!
PS contact David Gargan from his profile on here, he had one, and migjt still???
PPS i met Bob Savage a few times and was impressed with his knowledge and professionalism. His units looked very nice and he seems to always look for ways to make his units better!
Kevin B
Member
dgargan
Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 706
propane may be a problem
If your in NYC you can't use propane, which is how the Savage heats the water.
If your in NYC you can't use propane, which is how the Savage heats the water.
blaisesdaddy
Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2006
- Messages
- 59
John, call me when you get a chance. I can tell you about my experience with this pos system. If you are getting the same dry times with your portable and truck, you've most likely got an easy fix.
kmdineen
Member
By pass your live reel and get rid of the 25' of 1 1/2" vacuum hose whip.
Bill Soukoreff
Member
Greg Loe has been using one for 3 years now, contact him. He is on this board and is very helpful.
I just bought a used one, but have not started to clean with it yet, so I can only tell you what I think so far. Bob is a great guy who stands behind what he sells. My set-up will be somewhat unique, but I will report later how it performs.
WARNING: The following post is WAY too long and only intended for a potential buyer!
The Savage like other options is NOT for everyone, just as a Butler or Vortex is not for everyone. It fits a niche in the market. You need to decide what you want. There are trade-offs with every EVERY TM. The main factor for me was that I can fix anything on it quickly, inexpensively and with simple tools. I understand some have had problems with previous models, but the E-Beast is very simple and reliable according to the several owners I talked to who have used them for at least 2-3 years. Where I live the ONLY choice is Prochem or Cleanco. I worked on a Prochem Everest for a year, and would NEVER buy one. Never worked on a Cleanco, but I seen many of them, and no thanks. Other people love these two machines. There is only one place in my city to service these machines, and they have a new tech every month. They don't have any experience. So when you have a problem, it is a big concern, and lot's of downtime.
The Savage is built extremely well. (The only thing I did not like is you have to silicone the APO and Float wires coming out of the tank - but that is an easy fix by installing some nice liquid tight bulkheads/cord grips. (Under $10 mod.)
Best propane heater in the business in my opinion. The modified Pumptec 356 provides all the flow and psi you could want. Simple chem draw and flow meter. Feed off a tank or direct connect.
The only limitation when comparing to a PD blower powered TM is the electric vac motors. However, these 115700-13 7.2" 100+ CFM 11hg vac motors are huge! They are NOT porty motors! Plus, Bob has made the best use of these motors with very intelligent plumbing. The top mounted design allows these to run as cool as possible. The small tank gives instant rise time and I know some will disagree, but at least with electric motors, it makes a BIG difference at the end of the hose. I usually run less than 125" anyway in my business.
The modular design is also interesting. Bring the unit with APO in if you need to, instead of adding an extra 100 feet of hose. The 1.3 amp mag drive APO is so simple. I rebuilt two for under $100! No seals or bearings. You can keep a complete spare around for less than $200! The high level shut-off actually works unlike the Everest which never has and after being replaced more times than I can count.
Bobs rarely uses his generator these days. Just on short runs. I will use one most of the time. The problem is most guys cheap out on the generator and have problems. Remember the strength of any system depends on the weakest part! In my opinion you need to buy a contractor quality generator IF you are going run one. I am going with diesel as they are safer (fumes not as flammable, produce way less heat...) reliable, and efficient. 0.5 gallons per hour at full load. A quality 10 HP Hatz, Baldor, Lombardi or Yanmar powered generator with a full 120V power panel will provide all the power you need. The like to run close to full load. In the first year, you recover the additional cost of the generator compared to a quality gas generator.
Again, it is not for everyone! But there is a great niche for the Savage and the Nordic-1. Both push the limits of what an electric TM can do. You CANNOT compare these units with running a porty off the van. Just make sure you know what you want and consider all the pros and cons.
I just bought a used one, but have not started to clean with it yet, so I can only tell you what I think so far. Bob is a great guy who stands behind what he sells. My set-up will be somewhat unique, but I will report later how it performs.
WARNING: The following post is WAY too long and only intended for a potential buyer!
The Savage like other options is NOT for everyone, just as a Butler or Vortex is not for everyone. It fits a niche in the market. You need to decide what you want. There are trade-offs with every EVERY TM. The main factor for me was that I can fix anything on it quickly, inexpensively and with simple tools. I understand some have had problems with previous models, but the E-Beast is very simple and reliable according to the several owners I talked to who have used them for at least 2-3 years. Where I live the ONLY choice is Prochem or Cleanco. I worked on a Prochem Everest for a year, and would NEVER buy one. Never worked on a Cleanco, but I seen many of them, and no thanks. Other people love these two machines. There is only one place in my city to service these machines, and they have a new tech every month. They don't have any experience. So when you have a problem, it is a big concern, and lot's of downtime.
The Savage is built extremely well. (The only thing I did not like is you have to silicone the APO and Float wires coming out of the tank - but that is an easy fix by installing some nice liquid tight bulkheads/cord grips. (Under $10 mod.)
Best propane heater in the business in my opinion. The modified Pumptec 356 provides all the flow and psi you could want. Simple chem draw and flow meter. Feed off a tank or direct connect.
The only limitation when comparing to a PD blower powered TM is the electric vac motors. However, these 115700-13 7.2" 100+ CFM 11hg vac motors are huge! They are NOT porty motors! Plus, Bob has made the best use of these motors with very intelligent plumbing. The top mounted design allows these to run as cool as possible. The small tank gives instant rise time and I know some will disagree, but at least with electric motors, it makes a BIG difference at the end of the hose. I usually run less than 125" anyway in my business.
The modular design is also interesting. Bring the unit with APO in if you need to, instead of adding an extra 100 feet of hose. The 1.3 amp mag drive APO is so simple. I rebuilt two for under $100! No seals or bearings. You can keep a complete spare around for less than $200! The high level shut-off actually works unlike the Everest which never has and after being replaced more times than I can count.
Bobs rarely uses his generator these days. Just on short runs. I will use one most of the time. The problem is most guys cheap out on the generator and have problems. Remember the strength of any system depends on the weakest part! In my opinion you need to buy a contractor quality generator IF you are going run one. I am going with diesel as they are safer (fumes not as flammable, produce way less heat...) reliable, and efficient. 0.5 gallons per hour at full load. A quality 10 HP Hatz, Baldor, Lombardi or Yanmar powered generator with a full 120V power panel will provide all the power you need. The like to run close to full load. In the first year, you recover the additional cost of the generator compared to a quality gas generator.
Again, it is not for everyone! But there is a great niche for the Savage and the Nordic-1. Both push the limits of what an electric TM can do. You CANNOT compare these units with running a porty off the van. Just make sure you know what you want and consider all the pros and cons.
R
R W
Guest
I can't imagine using a TM in NYC. Where do you park???? Where do you run hoses???
But then, I've never been to NYC, so I don't know the layout....only what I see on the tele.
But then, I've never been to NYC, so I don't know the layout....only what I see on the tele.
great talking to you John,
The absolute bet thing about the Savage is the dependability.
Water pressure great. You can even do grout cleaning with it. Up to 1200 psi with the otter.
Heat is about as good as it can get. The heater is very efficient too.
Vacuum, I use an rx20 with glides. I do only 1 dry pass. Carpet is only damp when finished. On a 3br, living room , dining room and a hall, the first room is dry to the touch before I leave.
Easy to fix anything that might go wrong.
if your blower goes out, couple hundred bucks, 3 bolts and 3 wires and you're back up.
They only major problem I've had is with the heater. I'm the only person I know of that's had a problem with it. I'm using a little giant till I get it fixed. The little giant 3h uses more propane.
Simple simple simple.
The absolute bet thing about the Savage is the dependability.
Water pressure great. You can even do grout cleaning with it. Up to 1200 psi with the otter.
Heat is about as good as it can get. The heater is very efficient too.
Vacuum, I use an rx20 with glides. I do only 1 dry pass. Carpet is only damp when finished. On a 3br, living room , dining room and a hall, the first room is dry to the touch before I leave.
Easy to fix anything that might go wrong.
if your blower goes out, couple hundred bucks, 3 bolts and 3 wires and you're back up.
They only major problem I've had is with the heater. I'm the only person I know of that's had a problem with it. I'm using a little giant till I get it fixed. The little giant 3h uses more propane.
Simple simple simple.
Mikey P
Administrator
I wonder why Bob Savage doesn't post here anymore.
dgargan
Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 706
Greg rest assured you are not the only one to have a problem with the heater. I went through 3 of them and after countless trips to Bob's and many attempts he could never get mine to work. Don't get me wrong I like Bob and he was more then willing to help and fix things but it was a constant fight to keep it working.
I ended up having a local HVAC guy fix it. The only downside is I can't set the heat over 200 or it won't work but it's OK for now.
I learned the hard way on the generators and went through 3-4 of them before I figured out you need a monster size one.
The only other thing I have left of my system is the booster vac tank with APO and that works great with my Bane.
If price is a concern I think it would be a good unit for some cleaners , just stay away from generators and get a Little giant heater
I ended up having a local HVAC guy fix it. The only downside is I can't set the heat over 200 or it won't work but it's OK for now.
I learned the hard way on the generators and went through 3-4 of them before I figured out you need a monster size one.
The only other thing I have left of my system is the booster vac tank with APO and that works great with my Bane.
If price is a concern I think it would be a good unit for some cleaners , just stay away from generators and get a Little giant heater
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Greenie...
It's possible. I'm pretty sure that if you measure the "stack temperature" (the temp coming out of the top of the heater) of a Little Giant, vs. that of a well- designed boiler, you'll find that a boiler has a lower one than a Little Giant.
The stack temperature is a reliable way to measure the efficiency of a heater at scavenging temperature. The lower the temp, the more efficient the heater.
It's possible. I'm pretty sure that if you measure the "stack temperature" (the temp coming out of the top of the heater) of a Little Giant, vs. that of a well- designed boiler, you'll find that a boiler has a lower one than a Little Giant.
The stack temperature is a reliable way to measure the efficiency of a heater at scavenging temperature. The lower the temp, the more efficient the heater.
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Yes...
If you look at the coils in a LG, the gap between them is about 3/4", and, if I remember correctly, there isn't a "spiral" (a.k.a., "pancake") at the top... or if there is, it's one pancake. (It's been a while since I looked closely at one, thank God....)
When I got with my present source for boiler parts, we went round and round about the finer points of wrapping a coil. (That's how I know about stack temp, etc.) I told them that they wrap too tight for me. They didn't understand why. The reason is that L.P. isn't forced- air, like kero, so the coils need to breathe a little better. So I had to give them my own spec's. After a bit of study, I came up with what I believe to be a very good arrangement.
Anyway... the LG's do need more coil and they're spaced further than they need to be. It does allow them to breathe well, but they aren't as efficient as they could be...
Part of it is that they're so small, I'm sure. You can only get so many coils of a certain diameter inside an area. And, as you know, just a slight increase in ID (like vacuum hoses and tubes), gives you a much greater capacity for coils to be layered / wound in...
If you look at the coils in a LG, the gap between them is about 3/4", and, if I remember correctly, there isn't a "spiral" (a.k.a., "pancake") at the top... or if there is, it's one pancake. (It's been a while since I looked closely at one, thank God....)
When I got with my present source for boiler parts, we went round and round about the finer points of wrapping a coil. (That's how I know about stack temp, etc.) I told them that they wrap too tight for me. They didn't understand why. The reason is that L.P. isn't forced- air, like kero, so the coils need to breathe a little better. So I had to give them my own spec's. After a bit of study, I came up with what I believe to be a very good arrangement.
Anyway... the LG's do need more coil and they're spaced further than they need to be. It does allow them to breathe well, but they aren't as efficient as they could be...
Part of it is that they're so small, I'm sure. You can only get so many coils of a certain diameter inside an area. And, as you know, just a slight increase in ID (like vacuum hoses and tubes), gives you a much greater capacity for coils to be layered / wound in...
Well...I can't argue with that, If I had wrapped it myself I always thought I would have used a smaller coil size (more expensive and heavier, but better), and had more coils and set them closer together in the same housing, but I do like the small footprint, and the 2HT can be lifted with one hand.
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Wrapping them as tight as possible can cause airflow restrictions as well. There's a "sweet spot", so to speak... a bit of variation, but not much of one, that's tolerable... Too tight and you lose airflow and get sooting as a result. Too loose and you lose efficiency...
hogjowl
Idiot™
Doesn't Lisa have two hands? :?
Bill Soukoreff
Member
The little giant is not flow fired, right? Would not a flow fired heater use less propane? In South America and Europe they use small flow fired water heaters mounted on the wall and they they are very efficient.
The LG is thermostatically controlled, but it doesn't "fire" anymore than anything else when set properly, so the efficiency issue is definitely related to what Duane said.
Now all that said, I thought the LG heaters were very efficient in the first place...apparently not so on stand alone heat? as post heater you can clean ALL week on a 5 gal BBQ tank.
Now all that said, I thought the LG heaters were very efficient in the first place...apparently not so on stand alone heat? as post heater you can clean ALL week on a 5 gal BBQ tank.
