So... whats the solution?

[sweendogg]

Talk about a bitchfest!!! Phewww got me dizzy He said she said... but not alot of productive thoughts for the the future. This board has always been able to come up with some sort of solution to all of the problems. Alot of first class cleaners no matter how you slice and dice it. Great minds. From lowly pig farms to large headed board owners.

Ok so... the problem is Vortex will probably not be around at the rate things are going....


Who does this affect? Vortex owners yes.. But it COULD affect the direction of the industry. We got into cleaning just about the time that Vortex became very popular. There were not alot of off the shelf high performance machines with larger waste tanks and fresh water tanks. larger blowers, more heat and larger hose fittings that were standard options. Even now alot of cleaners have to "pimp" there machines to make them perform to their standards. But the big machines like the vortex and the aerotech got companies thinking about what cleaners want and there are alot of quality cleaners who wanted that kinda of performance. The ability for long hose runs, the ability for sustained high heat, while companies didn't jump and start making monster machines all around. We started seeing slide units with better performace. The titan series by hydramster, the prochem everest 650 HP, the Genesis series by PowerClean, Even Butler started offering a larger package in a box truck similar to the Vortex with larger fresh and waste tanks. Judson released their C4...

And while the vortex didn't lead the way so to speak, it gave an industry standard for performace to match and made cleaners understand what they could have.

If vortex and big trucks go under.. What fills its place? Can they make slide Ins to give the real world numbers a vortex or aerotech can? Obviously weight capacities for the fresh and waste tanks as well as space can't be dupliated with out utlizing a box truck.

But with out that type of compitition, I could see were manufactures would loose interest in extreme high performance machines.

So what would the industry have to do to fill this nitche?

 

[tmdry]

Les posted the Mighty Mikey Truck picture on another thread.

Someone will post it.

 

[sweendogg]

:mrgreen:

 

[Dolly Llama]

the mega mounts are tiny niche segment of the market .
always was, always will be

there were a total of 600 V's made since '95.
that's not even one tenth of one percent of the market, is it?

Steam Action made a mega mount too.

They will never be a mainstream part of the CCing community cause they just don't fit 98.73% of the biz models out there.
If you're not utilizing the capacity of a mega mount, you're wasting dollars by owning one



..L.T.A.

 

[sweendogg]

Don't get me wrong, I agree the mega mounts are and will only be a small segment of the market but I believe it lifted the bar of performance and publically energize the movement for higher performing machines. Its like the olympics, only a very few percentage of the population can compete on that level but they set the benchmark for their respective sports and it gives a goal for compeititors to work towards. The Mega mounts I believe stirred the pot enough and made enough companies realize that cleaners want/demand higher performaning truckmounts and with the help of the boards we are seeing that today with bigger more efficient slide in units, better plumbing for better air flow, 2.5 hose becoming more available at mainstream distributers, tools and systems capable of supporting higher flow and more efficient extraction.

 

[XTREME1]

I think Mike loses credibility because he was based on the Vortex in the outside Aptos community. He was the COIT hack who stepped up bigtime and the V made him. I think Mike owes more to the V than he realizies could the average idiot make it work like Mike, I doubt it so it was a partnership. I think Shawn York is a sleazy salesman but Mikey used the crap and was probably the biggest benefactor of the whole big truck scheme making york a success.
York should send Mikey a big cash gift for all he has done and mikey should buy a butler and a Judson and sell the vortex as an antigque

 

[The Great Oz]

2.5 hose isn't a new concept. It was around back in the early eighties (and maybe earlier), but got shelved as users realized that handling and storing the large and unwieldy hose outweighed the incremental benefits.

 

[hogjowl]

Personally, my belief is that this bulletin board community that we all are a part of still doesn't effect even 10% of the total industry. Many mfg's are not concerned about what we want because we don't shop with them and we are atypical of the industry. Take TCS for instance. They have no apparent desire to improve the performance of their rigs. They view customers like me as being the odd man out. They still produce their truck mounts the same way they did 10 years ago and still have a major following. There is no reason for them to change, as far as they are concerned.

I sometimes think we may give ourselves too much credit. It may be that we are a growing force, but still have some growing to do before we REALLY effect the industry.

 

[sweendogg]

And you are absolutely right on that Marty, we don't affect a huge percentage, but look at how many manufactures responded with higher performing machines in the last couple of years. While we as a (bullet)-ton board only represent a small percentage of actual cleaners, I'd say that the general consensus among cleaners is to have better performing equipment when possible. Escpielly in a highly competative market, whether you use the equipment to market yourself or enjoy giving your customers the value added service of quicker drying carpets, or simply need the higher perfomance to keep your production rates higher to compete with the $25.00 a room guys. Whether or not the industry listens to this particular board, this board does tend to stay on the pulse of the industry and alot of times we are privvy to information and opinions long before they are officially releases as a result. (even if the big headed bananna eater gets all the good free stuff!)

 

[Chris A]

I think what Marty is trying to say is as long as your using a decent mount and not running with clogged filters, and not cleaning with water the tech/OO is the only one who notices the difference. I think THAT's why manufacturers tend to stay with the status quo...

 

[Ken Snow]

well said Chris

 

[steve frasier]

I think independent people and BBs made the big TM companies take notice and change things, there will always be companies that do thier thing. Butler is on of those companies. Hydramaster will probably always try to push the envelope, Prochem and Hydramaster will always try to compete against each other. Who knows, one day one may own the other.

They all have a part of the market they are trying to capture/retain

The more things change the more they remain the same

I don't need to defend Mike but you are totally wrong, Mike would be where he is today reguardless of the V. It's like you all say, it just takes a little longer.

 

[sweendogg]

I think what Marty is trying to say is as long as your using a decent mount and not running with clogged filters, and not cleaning with water the tech/OO is the only one who notices the difference. I think THAT's why manufacturers tend to stay with the status quo...

And again, I'm not disagreeing.. in fact thats the entire point of the post.. with out Vortex and other mega mounts to pull the industry towards higher performance standards. I feel the industry as a whole will lax to its STATuS Quo as you put it. Its already obvious that the industry is focusing on fuel efficiency as a number one priority. And I'm not one to argue with that as long as you don't sacrifice performance as well. And you are right that the customer may never know the difference between a top of the line butler unit with all the bells and whistles upgraded to 2.5 flow with the 200 gallon waste tanks and freshwater tanks compared to the VAWTERBUILT Steam Genies... atleast not yet! But look how inovation evolves in any industry! We go to the moon to collect a few space rocks and just to say hey we beat the russians there, but look at what we get back out of the NASA program every year:http://www.nasa.gov/50th/50th_magazine/benefits.html

And though terrible in financial problems all around, how much farther behind would we be if automobile manufactures didn't have test beds like Nascar or Indy racing to test its components or tire compounds?


Ask yourself.. What Drives Innovation? Granted if we trully focus on the customer, it will be different from company to company. However, customers have more and more information available to them as our communication gap in society is exponentially decreasing. So a few years from now your customer may want to know you are doing everything you can to stay on top of your industry to maintain their business.

 

[hogjowl]

It's sorta like a conversation I had with a customer today. She said she was willing to pay me more than another company because she'd heard I vacuumed first and she figured I had a more "powerful" vacuum cleaner. I was up front with her and said my vacuum wasn't the difference. It was the man on the other end of the handle.

In a lot of ways, it's the same with TM's.

 

[sweendogg]

your right... Marty, but what drover her your way in the first place were not your expertise but the fact that the person who referred her only remembered how much better your machine performed! As much as we want to market ourselves as the reason behind the postive experience, utlimatly we have no control over what part of our advertising actually brings the customers in. But as long as its doing its job on some level, we are getting the customers we need to stay profitable and ultimatly successful.

 

[sweendogg]

Now here is a solution to the Vortex problem.... if he is trying to do actually has he says he will.

I had a deal worked out with Mark and Thom. They agreed to market and promote the Vortex. They agreed to build the Vortex slide-in. They agreed to take care of Vortex owners and have parts. I honored my contract. In my opinion they have not. I came back from Costa Rica to get the Vortex patent and company back under my control. I hope I can do it. Since I'm the only one who wants to do something about the fact that there are no parts on the shelf why don't you help me? Or do ya just want to sit around and bitch and hope it gets better on its own? Sumpin don't seem right here Mike.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Les posted the Mighty Mikey Truck picture on another thread.

Someone will post it.

 

[Mikey P]

I think Mike loses credibility because he was based on the Vortex in the outside Aptos community. He was the COIT hack who stepped up bigtime and the V made him

I started in April of 01, I didn't buy my V til December of 04.
The V made me hire a permanent helper thus saving my back and enabled me to get into tile work. (try and carry all you need to do tile in a Butler..)





Oh and Sweeney, next time Greenie f's you on an order, you're on your own pal.

 

[Fred Homan]

I like your post Les....

 

[Jim Martin]

Kinda makes you wonder if you took the word Vortex out of the problem and replaced it with ...Butler ..or Hydro Master....or what ever...where would this conversation be going... if those company's folded and everyone could not get parts or support......sooner or later everyone would be facing the same issues...what would happen then.??.....and gwad forbid that Nerf decided not to make the number 3 novelty football vacuum relief valves for the EZ machines....the industry would fold.....It is easy for those who don't have one and are not facing the issues to sit and back seat drive...a lot of conversations go on behind closed door and I am sure that there is more to a lot of this then most will ever know........

 

[Jim Bethel]

and gwad forbid that Nerf decided not to make the number 3 novelty football vacuum relief valves for the EZ machines....

Funny quote of the week Nice one Jim!

 

[sweendogg]

I think Mike loses credibility because he was based on the Vortex in the outside Aptos community. He was the COIT hack who stepped up bigtime and the V made him

I started in April of 01, I didn't buy my V til December of 04.
The V made me hire a permanent helper thus saving my back and enabled me to get into tile work. (try and carry all you need to do tile in a Butler..)





Oh and Sweeney, next time Greenie f's you on an order, you're on your own pal.

Oh what the hell.. this wasn't intended as an offense to you.. sheesh one little bananna quote and he's up in arms. I simply wanted to start a thread, all arguments aside about the impact the lack of mega machines would have on the industry and get perspective!

good grief! Damn... hell for what its worth... I agree with most of the statements you made. But not owning a vortex I didn't feel it was my place to add any havoc or opinion of any real substance to that thread. Ergo this thread for my indulgance

 

[Mikey P]

than take down that disgusting signature picture before I start to cry.

 

[sweendogg]

And Les... I do like that post.. If you ever built a machine like that!! You'd have alot of carpet cleaners soiling themselve!


p.s. Mikey all you had to do was ask!

 

[sweendogg]

I suppose some plant lover is going to come after me now for defiling their trees! :mrgreen:

 

[Ron K]

I miss Ralph Bloss

 

[amazingcleansc]

mikey should buy a butler and a Judson and sell the vortex as an antigque

that sentence is so ironic its unbelievable.

 

[Ron Werner]

It's sorta like a conversation I had with a customer today. She said she was willing to pay me more than another company because she'd heard I vacuumed first and she figured I had a more "powerful" vacuum cleaner. I was up front with her and said my vacuum wasn't the difference. It was the man on the other end of the handle.

In a lot of ways, it's the same with TM's.

tis true. Its not the tool but the operator. But the operator has to have the right tool!



Nice thing about the Judson plant, I can get parts locally. The only thing I can't really fix is the blower.

 

[dealtimeman]

the major part is the operator but if a good operator has a great tool the he or she can produce more or better results with less fatigue and or stress.

 

[tmdry]

Les posted the Mighty Mikey Truck picture on another thread.

Someone will post it.

If Mikey doesn't get it, that's Ron B's new feature truck that he asked about @ the TM rounds table at MF.