tell me again..WHY do you use acid rinse?

[Dolly Llama]

who convinced you it's better?

who convinced you just cause it's an acid you'll leave less residue?

who sold you on that MYTH?


..L.T.A.

 

[Greenie]

I thought it was just so I could clean Marty's problematic church with no wickbacks.....but now that I think about it, I'd probably just use Judson Snake Oil Low Foam rinse, I'm pretty damned sure the encap polymer would fix that job.

So no...I have no use for an acid textile rinse, the neutral pH Judson O2 rinse would fit the bill most days, and leave it brighter.

commerical over.

 

[hogjowl]

AdmiralClean would like to thank mEAT for a useful post.

 

[RickL]

Bill Yeadon in my first IICRC class said it would return the carpet to a neutral ph. I never really doubted the legend.

 

[Jack May]

Two things.

1) cleaning predominantly wool wall to wall, we're told taht wool being natural is on the acid side anyway and taht's where it performs at it's best, so it only makes sense to return it to an acidic state after using alkaline detergents and spotters.

2) a good majority of our carpets still have jute secondary backings. For WDR work, if I use an acid rinse on the initial cleaning after a thorough extraction, I'm way less likely to get cellulosic browning on the carpet face during the drying procedure.

It works for me so I use it... until shown/proven otherwise.

John

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

You DON"T always have to use it.

It depends on a few factors, and sometimes some or all.

1) The nature of your prespray.
2) The nature of the carpet.
3) The nature of pre-existent residues


Oily surfactants (high HLB) present in quite a number of good presprays will benefit by acidic rinse products that have a good rinse surfactant. Especially important on Olefin carpets, where you will use a high HLB surfactant to break the oil bond to olefin, and then want to use the least amount of rinse water to get all the soil and surfactant residue without over-wetting. If you can get an olefin clean without over-wetting, you'll lessen the risk of wicking induced brown-out.

Acidic rinses are also adept at pH correction, when needed or desired.

 

[John Spezia]

Meat, Prove the debate with a PH meter?

 

[Ron Lippold]

i did my daycare last night I do these on a regular basis so I know what to expect. Last time it was cleaned i had to sub it out to a good friend of mine, he does not use a rinse. This job usually takes me and eppie 2hr 15 min last night it took us right at 4 hr there was so much soap residue left behind. next time it will be easier.

 

[The Great Oz]

<<<<< Look at what a rinse does for my hair.

I use a rinse whenever I need carpet to look like this.

 

[ACE]

i did my daycare last night I do these on a regular basis so I know what to expect. Last time it was cleaned i had to sub it out to a good friend of mine, he does not use a rinse. This job usually takes me and eppie 2hr 15 min last night it took us right at 4 hr there was so much soap residue left behind. next time it will be easier.

What kind of pre-spray is he using?

Acid rinse is just another tool. If you understand it it will come in real handy on about 5%-10% of jobs.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Bill Yeadon in my first IICRC class said it would return the carpet to a neutral ph.

so?

what's magical about a neutral ph on a SYNTHETIC carpet?
PH doesn't attract soil, sticky residue does.



I can spray acid on top of the gooiest alkaline pre-spray and make it neutral.
it's still a gooey mess...just neutral PH

and most of the acid rinses are pretty gummy/sticky by them selves.
ever feel what citric acid after it's dry?

speaking of dry...some won't.... and can extend your dry times.
pour some Prochem All Fiber rinse in a glass.
It won't evaporate for WEEKS.
a chemist at a juice lab said something in it attracts moisture from the air
(can't recall what that "something" was)
..most of it was over my head anyway


..L.T.A.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Acid rinse is just another tool. If you understand it it will come in real handy on about 5%-10% of jobs.

yes!
It's a specialty chem.

..L.T.A.

 

[Able 1]

I used to rinse all my uphoestry with acid (Jasper up. class), now I use slurry mixed at half for most part unless it's cotton. I always thought acids dried faster, thats why I used it on cotton..... that and I was told it helped from bleeding while the piece dried. :?

 

[roro]

For WDR work, if I use an acid rinse on the initial cleaning after a thorough extraction, I'm way less likely to get cellulosic browning on the carpet face during the drying procedure.John

Tell us why acid repels lignin :?:

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Those that are preoccupied with only the acidic attribute of these rinse products will never understand their full purpose.

 

[Jeremy]

Like shawn said... It's more about softening the water and the rinse agent than the pH... but hey if you return the carpet to neutral ph after an alkiline cleaning, why not?

 

[RIP IT]

1. To stabilize carpets after application of browning remover in wdr jobs.
2. Prior to application of protector.
3. To prevent wickback.

 

[handdi]

since using an acid rinse our wick backs on berber are all but gone\i'm sold

 

[Farenheit251]

I ordered two buckets of the powerstrike from JohnO and some energy for cleaning rentals. Using an acid rinse soothes my conciense as the PH of powerstrike is pretty high. Better cleaning results than using a milder prespray with an emulsifier.

 

[RickL]

who convinced you it's better?

who convinced you just cause it's an acid you'll leave less residue?

who sold you on that MYTH?


..L.T.A.

So you didn't want answers to your question in your orginal post I quess.
Thought I answered what you asked. Reread your orginal post.
I know now that it's a tool used in specific situations. But only answered your question
as asked.

 

[Jack May]

For WDR work, if I use an acid rinse on the initial cleaning after a thorough extraction, I'm way less likely to get cellulosic browning on the carpet face during the drying procedure.John

Tell us why acid repels lignin :?:

I'm not a scientist and can't tell you the whys and hows sorry Ross. I did have it explained to me at ASD some 5-6 years ago but all I can confirm is that it works. By either running it as a rinse or misting it over the top after. I assume it's something to do with the fact that acids usually stabalise dyes. If the jute is left on teh acid side, it doesn't seem to bleed dye as freely.

John

 

[renegade_cowboy]

I use an acid rinse because I was told its best to leave the carpet in a netural PH, helps make colors "pop" with wool rugs. Since opening my business I havent had a redo yet.

 

[Warren Wallace]

acid rinse works on well on browning from water damage

 

[ruff]

As usual the word rinse is mileading.
To me (an acid rinse) means an additional step where you spray on, or use in line, an acid product that is suposed to neutralize alkalinity and by some miracle of chemistry bestow a clean and soft feel and glow to the carpet.

It may be a religion.

I used it exclusively for 5 years (fell for the myth) and then switched to a good quality usual detergent which works much better for me. Tested at home side by side 3 times- better results

If you are interested in a soft feel, most detergent have softening agent so the carpet feels quite soft

If you want to leave wool in an acidic state, there are many acid side detergents that will do just that. On upholstery and potential bleeders (after testing) acid side detergents (not a rinse) stabilize the dyes. You can also use a pre-spray and neutralize with acid if you wish.

Browning with jute backing is most commonly a result of over wetting (can be avoided) or areas where the client heavily spotted (those damn hidden traps. Yikes.)

Until proven without a doubt that acid rinsed carpets stay clean longer (my side by side tests prove the opposite) it only adds $$ to the manufacturer's pocket.

Which is good thing for the economy that is.
Though not so much for your own pocket.

 

[Dolly Llama]

So you didn't want answers to your question in your orginal post I quess.
Thought I answered what you asked. Reread your orginal post.
I know now that it's a tool used in specific situations. But only answered your question
as asked.

thanks Rick.
You did answer the question.
I just took it further and asked more

did Bill or any of the other instructors that teach to acid rinse "routinely" ever say WHY a neutral ph is better?
or was it "just because"?

and I suspect some of the chem experts are being coy.
I suspect some know most acid rinses aren't sheet for what they're being sold for....a rinse agent
I suspect some know only a couple on the market actually have some aid in rinsing detergents

Most of the others are useless for rising detergents....but you wouldn't know it to hear the "cult of acid rinse" faithful
indeed, as Kolfer1 pointed out, many of them are detrimental and actually can CONTRIBUTE to resoil
PH has nothing to do with resiol rates


..L.T.A.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

I suspect some know most acid rinses aren't sheet for what they're being sold for....a rinse agent
I suspect some know only a couple on the market actually have some aid in rinsing detergents

You are dead on, on that one.

Clearly, the poor ones are simply relabeled soures with a touch of the same oil-loving surfactant they claim to rinse!

When acid rinses started to get popular, I used to exclaim this until I was nearly blue, but I laid off when the greater battles became more important. But crappy Acid Rinses have done a lot to hurt the concept.

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

What happens when cleaning and you pre spray as the first step now if you missed a few spots or a problem area will the rinse clean the problem areas to match the rest of the carpet. I don,t use a rinse so I don,t know the answer? jack z.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

It depends on the nature of the sil that you missed. If it is a solid rinse agent, the detergency is poor.

So, using a good acid rinse does depend on adequate preconditioning more than say a fully formulated emulsifier. But you certainly be better off than using plain hot water, as it will "clean" better than that.

 

[Jim Morrison]

A combination of the guy who taught my first cc'ng course & the disty who hosted the course praising the benefits of acid rinse.. At that point I didn't own any gear but it was not long after I bought a porty.

Several months after I started my business a lady reacted to the Fibre Rinse (acid) I was using and that was the last time I used it until recently. A guy who helped me out in the early days turned me onto Dry Slurry and I swear that it cleaned better than the acid rinse, thru the porty. Someone on the boards said it was better at rinsing out prespray, I was sold on the idea.

Rethinking it all now that I spent 2 weeks descaling my tm. Feels like I am taking a step backwards running the acid through the wand.

 

[RIP IT]

I was shown a demo at Prochem where they had a glass of water and detergent mixed with plenty of bubbles on the surface then they added a couple of drops of acid rinse from an eyedropper and it made the bubbles vanish. I guess it's safer to leave carpet in a pH neutral state rather than an alkaline state. It costs bugger all and I'm happy with the results.