Test your Butler knowledge-ANSWER IS IN

[Jeff]

I have a 06 Butler with high heat and all the normal bells and whistles. This past week my temp has been crazy, i.e. took along time to heat, more heat from the convenience hose than the solution hose, water temp would start to drop if I wasn't keying the wand. Sure it would get up to 230 but wasn't a stable temp, besides it should have been 250+.

So I called Butler Service and in a 30 sec conversation my problem was fix. I am new to the truck-mount game so my knowledge is limited but I was amazed at the cause.

See if you guys can guess the cause. I really doubt it will take long with the insight many of you have.

Guess away!

 

[Jester]

Flux capacitor

 

[Jeff]

I guess this past weekend was to much for you all. This by the way was and maybe very useful information. Especially for individuals that have a system where the blower gives a little added heat. hint, hint

 

[Bob Foster]

Needed to have the air burped out of it.

 

[Jeff]

nope

 

[Guest]

Clean out the blower heater.

 

[kmdineen]

You had the van heater/air conditioner on.

 

[Guest]

so what's the answer?

 

[kmdineen]

Were the vacuum and RPM and pressure (drops to 0 when wand not keyed) gages at spec? Did you see water under the van from the pressure relief valve on the heat exchanger? Temperature ball valve set to hot? The van's engine temperature gage was normal and coolant was full? Any scale or crud build up in the system?

 

[Jeff]

THE ANSWER

O.K. guys with almost 200 views I expected a few of the big guys to come forward but maybe this is a little tougher than I thought for them as well. And no doubt as soon as I tell the answer there will be plenty of "I knew that".

First off I wanted to say the the Butler Service staff is unbelievable and they really know their machines. They are no doubt why many people choose and stay with the Butler line.

ANSWER: The hose reel knuckle has a small air leak. That's right, there was a small air leak near the waste tank because the hose clamp was not tight enough. I'm sure the same could be the case if there was any air leak near the blower intake such as a lid seal or waste tank lid not tight. Why? With the high heat option the blower throws that extra heat into the system. Now with the air leak and in particular with colder air (40 degrees in my case) the blower was sucking cold air and actually cooling the water down and make it have sporadic heat, the blower became a air conditioner instead of a heater. The longer the water sat in the blower box the cooler it became. If I keyed the wand or used the convenience hose the water rushed by and it wasn't cooled down as much.

Matt at Butler said that they have done test with small air leaks and it could cool a system down as much as 60 degrees and I am here to say it can and did happen.

So boys if your high heat isn't the same check your system for air leaks.
Hope this information helps some of you.

Jeff Sybert

 

[FB7777]

its so obvious, once you gave the answer.


Thanks Jeff! I've noticed that the temp on my unit isn't pegged at 250 like it normally is on the summer.

I have a small air leak at the cam lock fitting on the hose reel that I have ignored. Time to dis-assemble and get it tightened up.

 

[kmdineen]

Thanks Jeff, good information. Do you mean the leak was in the 3" hose between the blower and the waste tank? I assume the leak was too small to show up on the vacuum gage.

 

[Jeff]

yes & yes

Matt @Butler also said that is one reason to grease your live reel so that seal is tight.

 

[Greenie]

Are guys still using live reels?

stop now, and your custies will thank you.

 

[erick herdt]

I am with Greenie.

I will try to use as little hose as possible.

I notice that with a 50 ft. section, the air roars into the hose, at 250 feet, it's just sucking the air.

It's quite the difference.

Oh. I am running a 4M blower, if that makes a difference.

 

[FB7777]

I admit it, I use my live reel...

but I also use my rear filter box 2 in + 2in to 2.5 to the door
http://coolcuffs.net/FredMVP.html

 

[Greenie]

Fred,

That "Y" you have looks like a regular 2" Y.

It appears your 2.5" hose is being cut down to a single 2" port (as Joe doesn't have 2.5" coolcuffs) which is then fed by a pair of 2 inchers.

It would be more efficient to use a 2.5" Y.

It would also be less setup.

If you want to maintain use of your rear mounted filterbox, just plug the 2 hoses into that, since there are 2 ports, and cap off the big hose.
The run a couple of shorty cut pieces of 2" to a 2.5" Y right off the box, and now you have a new hook up point, that is sure to be more efficient.

 

[kmdineen]

Re: THE ANSWER

.

ANSWER: The hose reel knuckle has a small air leak. That's right, there was a small air leak near the waste tank because the hose clamp was not tight enough. I'm sure the same could be the case if there was any air leak near the blower intake such as a lid seal or waste tank lid not tight. Why? With the high heat option the blower throws that extra heat into the system.

If a small air leak in your vacuum reel was causing your solution temperature to drop and tightening a hose clamp gave you a heat increase in your system, how do you, (or Matt at Butler) explain the vacuum relief valve sucking in the same cold air during the cleaning process and not affecting the heat? The Butler spring relief valve is located next to the blower intake hose and is set by Butler to start weeping air at approximately 12hg and open more as resistance increases. The vacuum relief valve leaks more cold air closer to the blower but doesn't have the same affect as your vacuum hose reel leak. Why not?

 

[FB7777]

I would assume that because when the vacuum relief valve is open, the machine is under load and you are extracting very hot water at the time that the system is under 12hg+ in order for the vac relief to open.

WHen you have a leak it sucks air whether you are under load or not.

 

[Jeff]

Fred you seem to make a strong argument. Actually I can't answer that in technical terms , all I know is that was the problem and I jumped 40 degrees in 15 seconds after I fixed the small air leak.

Kevin, maybe you just need to make a leak and see for yourself. :shock:

 

[Greenie]

I'm with Kevin, how on earth did that fix the problem?
Butler just stuffs the tigerflex hose onto the waste tank barbs, are we to believe that all those hose connections are air tight?

I can see a blower EXHAUST leak, but not incoming air, or the relief valve scenario would be null and void.

 

[Jeff]

Seeing IS believing! But like I said I have no idea. I guess maybe if the vac relief wasn't sucking air all the time I'd have Vortec temps. :wink:

 

[Greenie]

maybe that is why the Kunkled Butlers get hotter?

 

[Jeff]

We may be getting somewhere!

 

[danpauselius]

Geez, I knew that and I don't have a Butler, LOL.

Actually, I don't know sheet