thermalwave has me banging my head againest the wall..........

[Lance Golden]

Jim,
I had the TW HP 48HP, Does yours have a "helicoil?" If so, my old one would give me fits with overheating. I removed the thermostat going to it. End of problems.
I thought I heard they did something different than using the helicoil on the TW2

 

[Jim Martin]

OK........truck and machine have been sitting in the yard for over 3 weeks.......I have been to busy to really get out there and work on it.....Thanks to the guys at Sapphire.....they pretty much pin pointed that the coolant pump went out......found some time and replaced both coolant pump...thermostat and while I had it in a million pieces...I went a head and replaced the timing belt.........machine runs great...no over heating....problem solved...........

so I thought........


start the machine..( well...jump start the machine....both the truck and machine sat so long both batteries will not hold a charge..%#@$&^..)
turn on pump....set the pressure regulator to 400 to 500 psi.......water temp will not go up...drop the pressure to 300 or below....water heats up and I can hit 220 in no time.....once it gets hot if I push that regulator up past 350.......temp drops like a rock.....so I replaced the regulator......no change...still does the same thing....plugged off therm valve....no change....plugged off by-pass solenoid......no change...temp control valve seems to work....(?)....if I run it down the temp will drop...run it back up the temp comes back up..but when I open it up the water pressure does not change..(?)......on my 570 when you open it up to cool it down the water pressure drops because you are by passing everything and just dumping it to cool it down.......don't know if therm wave is the same or if that matter's because it seems like the water is moving and not sitting long enough to heat up if I raise the PSI.........

this is all while I have it under a load.......300 PSI..220 degrees......break the load........temp drops like a rock........

if I was not so bald....I swear I would be pulling my hair out on this one...........this one has me totally baffled......its almost like it is working..backwards.......

 

[dealtimeman]

Wish I could help. Give me a call if you want to brainstorm, will be on the road in a few hours for a few hours and can talk about if you want.

 

[BradFenstermaker]

DADGUMIT! Jim I wish I was closer too ya. Wood love to help figure this out for you. I hope your MOM is doing ok. Hang in there and I will be praying for better circumstances for you and the family.

 

[Mikey P]

Time to upgrade to a ETM Jim

 

[Jim Martin]

Time to upgrade to a ETM Jim

thanks but no thanks....in our heat the plastic would probably warp.....

What ever is going on with this is probably staring me in the face and I am probably just over thinking it....

 

[FB7777]

Or " downgrade" to Butlers like me

I didnt understand half of what you said regarding diagnostics and solutions...

OK I lied... I barely understood any of it

 

[Jimmy L]

I agree with Fred.

All we need is something that squirts and sucks, why use a complicated machine?

 

[Jim Martin]

Or " downgrade" to Butlers like me

I didnt understand half of what you said regarding diagnostics and solutions...

OK I lied... I barely understood any of it

its hard to explain...I knew it would be...I don't even understand it...and I am standing in front of it....

 

[FB7777]

I didn't mean to imply that you explained your issues poorly, more that I am mechanically deficient and am not familiar with troubleshooting slide in units

And more to the point that Jimmy makes, I too prefer simple uncomplicated squirt and suck units

 

[FredC]

its hard to explain...I knew it would be...I don't even understand it...and I am standing in front of it....

doesn't make a lot of sense. When you say that when you increase the pressure and the temp drop is this without any flow?

After working on the machine did you bleed the heliocoil?

 

[Jim Martin]

I didn't mean to imply that you explained your issues poorly, more that I am mechanically deficient and am not familiar with troubleshooting slide in units

And more to the point that Jimmy makes, I too prefer simple uncomplicated squirt and suck units

really it is not that completed....everything that has happened to it....has been easy to figure out and keep going....but what ever is going on this time has me confused.....I am probably just going to go down and buy a few batteries and take it in to get it fixed....then I can kick myself after I find out it was something stupid and right in front of my eyes...l

 

[Jim Martin]

doesn't make a lot of sense. When you say that when you increase the pressure and the temp drop is this without any flow?

After working on the machine did you bleed the heliocoil?

yes I blend all the air out....

at 300 psi....under a full load the temp will climb....above 300 psi the temp will start falling....if I keep keying the wand. I can get the temp to climb when the psi is above 300....but it fights to do it...but as soon as I stop keying the wand the temp will drop if I am over 300 psi...


if I keep the psi under 300...I can key the wand and it heats up and runs fine...holds the heat....does what it is supposed to do...

 

[Dan]

yes I blend all the air out....

at 300 psi....under a full load the temp will climb....above 300 psi the temp will start falling....if I keep keying the wand. I can get the temp to climb when the psi is above 300....but it fights to do it...but as soon as I stop keying the wand the temp will drop if I am over 300 psi...


if I keep the psi under 300...I can key the wand and it heats up and runs fine...holds the heat....does what it is supposed to do...

okay I haven't paid a lot of attention to what you have replaced but what about the unloader bypassing at higher pressure?

 

[Dan]

Okay so I went and reread and appears you replace the unloader.

 

[hogjowl]

I think it's time to take it in ... actually, it was time to do that a couple of weeks ago ... and let the dealer replace everything on it, one thing at a time (cha-ching) until he finally hits the right part.

Then sell that over-engineered piece of crap and get a TCS unit.

 

[Desk Jockey]

So it’s bypassing water somewhere, if the water is cold when in normal operating temperature but hot run at reduced flow.


You said you pulled the bi-metal temp sensor, is the waste tank filling not filling when in normal operating pressure?


The temp control valve, with the unit off can you heat it click as you turn the temp up or down?


You’re sure you took the temp solenoid out of the loop. It’s not bypassing?


Yea I think your temp should drop when you open up the bypass, it shouldn’t remain steady.

Water is bypassing somewhere, just where?

 

[hogjowl]

You need to stick to landscaping and let the angos do the technical stuff.

 

[Desk Jockey]

It's too wet and cold to cut grass here. Besides I was inspired by staying at a Holiday Inn last night!

Chuddup Pigchit, go take your simple mind and simple machine and go clean something!

Seriously we've had half a dozen Prochem's since the 90's and some of their pressure systems and heat were similar for a while.

 

[Jim Martin]

So it’s bypassing water somewhere, if the water is cold when in normal operating temperature but hot run at reduced flow.


You said you pulled the bi-metal temp sensor, is the waste tank filling not filling when in normal operating pressure?


The temp control valve, with the unit off can you heat it click as you turn the temp up or down?


You’re sure you took the temp solenoid out of the loop. It’s not bypassing?


Yea I think your temp should drop when you open up the bypass, it shouldn’t remain steady.

Water is bypassing somewhere, just where?

correct.....water is by-passing somewhere......but I just cant figure out where....normally when it does this it is pretty easy to find...there is only 3 places that it can do this......

therm valve....which I tested and blocked off...
by-pass solenoid could be stuck open.....which I by-passed and blocked off....
temp control valve....turn it down...temp drops...turn it up....temp comes back up....PSI does not change.....and I am not 100% sure that is correct.....I would think that the PSI would drop because I am dumping to cool it off.........(?)....but I don't know....never really used it....I always just kept it closed.....it may be my whole problem...but..it works it raise and lower temps.........(?)

 

[Mikey P]

Sapphire really needs Roden to un-engineer a unit for us backwood cleaners with no practical access to a dealer for help


Or in the case of Jim, too stubborn to ask for help..lol

 

[Jim Martin]

Sapphire really needs Roden to un-engineer a unit for us backwood cleaners with no practical access to a dealer for help


Or in the case of Jim, too stubborn to ask for help..lol

I have been asking for everyones help on this on and off for the last 3 weeks.......

my stubborn streak comes from other people working on my equipment........I have ALWAYS fixed my own stuff......

 

[Mikey P]

I meant real help from another mechanic in the flesh and not us virtual know it all's

 

[Desk Jockey]

temp control valve....turn it down...temp drops...turn it up....temp comes back up....PSI does not change.....and I am not 100% sure that is correct.....I would think that the PSI would drop because I am dumping to cool it off.........(?)....but I don't know....never really used it....I always just kept it closed.....it may be my whole problem...but..it works it raise and lower temps.........(?)

I thought you were talking about a bypass valve, does that unit not have a bypass valve? No I think the pressure should remain constant with the temp turned down, it's just going to bypass as you dial it down.

Once up to operating temperature have you taken the lid off the waste tank to see if water is bypassing to the waste tank?

 

[Bill Bruders]

Sapphire really needs Roden to un-engineer a unit for us backwood cleaners with no practical access to a dealer for help


Or in the case of Jim, too stubborn to ask for help..lol

He did that Mike it called a Sapphire unit. The best exchanger on any one of our units is no more difficult to understand than a burner.:-)

 

[John Olson]

really it is not that completed....everything that has happened to it....has been easy to figure out and keep going....but what ever is going on this time has me confused.....I am probably just going to go down and buy a few batteries and take it in to get it fixed....then I can kick myself after I find out it was something stupid and right in front of my eyes...l

It will be way cheaper to just drive it in to Allen Equipment. Time is your most valuable asset Jim. It is the only commodity on this earth we cannot make more of. Stop throwing yours away.. Please, I say this as a friend..You can always make more money....

 

[Jim Martin]

apparently I have been chasing a ghost....

Took it down to interlink and they said that what the machine is doing is normal and it is running great......

2.5 years this machine has never ran like this......he thinks that "maybe" something was wrong with it from the get go and "maybe"......with all my tearing things apart that some how it is corrected....I cant explane it and neither could he...he put all his test equipment on it...everything dialed in and matched what the truck was giving me........

he said all the other ones that he has worked on all run the same way as mine does now.............

I know my equipment...I know every sound it makes..what to expect to see when I walk out to shut it down...and everything it is doing is not normal.........

so I put it all back together and I am taking it on 5 jobs tomorrow......see what she does....if everything holds up...then I guess I just have to get use to the new normal....

I guess if there is nothing wrong it would explane why I have spent so much time trying to fix something that is not broken...

I don't like not having answers to thing like this...I want to know the hows and the why's......but for now....I will be happy if it is just running.......

I guess tomorrow will say it all................

Thanks to Sapphire's......Kevin and Scott......Interlink...Larry and the tech guy ( sorry I cant remember his name ) here in Tucson....and everyone on the board for all your time in helping me........

 

[John Olson]

Jim I hate to say this but if your gut is telling you something is wrong then something is wrong. Guys who can't figure out bluelines use that same excuse. If it does it again drive it to Allen equipment I know it's a journey but they won't tell you it's fine just because they can't figure it out. You run the thing day I and day out. I trust your opinion over som guy at interlink. Now if the guys at Allen tell you the same the. Ill trust it.

 

[FB7777]

John Olson" data-source="post: 4218796" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Time is your most valuable asset Jim. It is the only commodity on this earth we cannot make more of. Stop throwing yours away.. Please, I say this as a friend..You can always make more money....

That's reason #1 why I own Butlers

 

[KevinL]

Sure, glad I could help. How's your Mom? Have you gone to see her?