This old dog....... fixed it but want to know why...

[Greg Cole]

Recently we got a complaint from a customer/ The contractor had steam cleaned w/ truckmount his sculpted berber (since it was Nylon) and left. Yellowish stains appeared in several areas. No pets ever present. Plants throughout the house but the stains were obviously NOT anywhere near where the plants would sit.
A reservice was issue and another tech went out and performed a rinse with Chemspec Textile Rinse. Stains lightened or removed in most areas but remained in the master bedroom. The tech told me it was permanent. The guy was screaming for a refund.
I personally went out there with 2 managers and a rookie tech today to see if I could save the contractor from having to buy new carpet.

The ph paper registered a 7. I had the tech rinse with hand tool, apply 10% Citic Acid solution, dwell for 15 minutes, extracted w/ acid rinse. Stains gone. shiteatinggrin
If it had been Olefin I would understand the PH burn. BUT it was Nylon (didn't float).
I took a guess and got lucky on how to fix it. What caused this? Olefin backing?
I able to get it out? Why?

 

[Greg Cole]

On a bragging note- I sold the guy an entire house restretch for $925, picked up his leather sofa and 2 chairs for $300, and closed a multi-system air duct cleaning (which is scheduled for tommorrow) for another $900. I gave him his $100.00 back for the carpet cleaning but more than made up for it. The poor contractor just sat there slack jawed as I turned a furious customer into someone willing to spend another $2k with us. I had forgotten just how easy in-home sales comes to me.

I must admit that I missed the thrill of the sale! The nervous energy in the room when the custy scratches their head, bites their lip, and goes "Ok - Do it" shiteatinggrin This old dog still has a little fight left in him! somewhat amus It's time like these that I realize why many of you are still on the truck every day!

 

[George V]

Ivebeensold

 

[Willy P]

WHOPPEE!

idgas

 

[Hoody]

I'll just say I would have charged double what you did, and got it too, so nenner nenner ? :mrgreen:

Was it a jute backing ? Maybe spills that had wicked ? Owner before had pets, carpet and pad replaced, subfloor not sealed, and now you reintroduced water again, and caused some minor wicking from the sub floor ? There are more reasons to wicking then pH. Could have been residue that wasn't rinsed out properly. Could be a lot of things, but you fixed it, so thats what matters.

 

[Shane T]

Maybe the first contractor's presray container leaked while setting on the carpet?

 

[idreadnought]

Are you sure it was nylon? Wool carpet could of done that. Also if it has a jute backing then an over soaking could of caused the water stains to wick from the backing.

 

[Greg Cole]

Are you sure it was nylon? Wool carpet could of done that. Also if it has a jute backing then an over soaking could of caused the water stains to wick from the backing.

100% sure it was nylon and not wool. Jute backing? hmmm, makes sense.- Anyone else?

 

[Brian R]

Awwwe, reminds me of me when I was just a pup. !gotcha!

 

[TimP]

To me it sounds like there is something in the carpet that is causing the carpet to change color under neutral to alkaline PH. A special dye or something of that sort.

Make a note for that account so that the floor is acid rinsed next time and see if that takes care of it.

If that don't then it's probably some sort of a wicking problem. But you never know.....

 

[Lee Stockwell]

So much wrong in this thread...but who cares?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Reminds me of a 3 stooges episode, and then WC Fields comes in to save the day. (all before your time).

 

[Mikey P]

So you got dorky you, two managers whom I'll presume are large dark men and another "tech" goon all in the same room with this poor homeowner and you're surprised he caved in to your heavy handed bait and switch?

 

[Brian R]

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Exactly

 

[Greg Cole]

stain resist yellowing probably compounded/caused by ineffective rinse due to vac loss with the sculpted berber...........

I know what your paper said but the cure says the opposite.......


but really isn't this thread just to say "see why we dry clean em"....and a little bragging

edit: olefin ph burn?

Nope- NOT my intention! as stated it is nylon!

 

[Greg Cole]

So you got dorky you, two managers whom I'll presume are large dark men and another "tech" goon all in the same room with this poor homeowner and you're surprised he caved in to your heavy handed bait and switch?

No- but funny stuff

Thanks for the advice

 

[John Watson]

I have never heard of an olifin PH burn, Please expond on this new term....

Olifin has a lower melting temp and is subject to friction burns compared to others.

If the rug was an older nylon and had a jute back, jute tends to break down with age and when over wet the yellowish to brown dyes loose and migrate to the surface during the capilary drying process. In other words it flippen wicking cause someone left it to wet.. as you founfd acidic acid removes discoloration. but still operator error..

 

[Art Kelley]

Recently we got a complaint from a customer/ The contractor had steam cleaned w/ truckmount his sculpted berber (since it was Nylon) and left. Yellowish stains appeared in several areas. No pets ever present. Plants throughout the house but the stains were obviously NOT anywhere near where the plants would sit.
A reservice was issue and another tech went out and performed a rinse with Chemspec Textile Rinse. Stains lightened or removed in most areas but remained in the master bedroom. The tech told me it was permanent. The guy was screaming for a refund.
I personally went out there with 2 managers and a rookie tech today to see if I could save the contractor from having to buy new carpet.

The ph paper registered a 7. I had the tech rinse with hand tool, apply 10% Citic Acid solution, dwell for 15 minutes, extracted w/ acid rinse. Stains gone. shiteatinggrin
If it had been Olefin I would understand the PH burn. BUT it was Nylon (didn't float).
I took a guess and got lucky on how to fix it. What caused this? Olefin backing?
I able to get it out? Why?

This is why you don't let hacks steam clean berbers. He used a high pH rinse to blast through the job, and it yellowed in the wetter unextracted areas from the overspray. The citric acid was the proper correction, starting at 10% and going to 20% if necessary.
The reason dry cleaning works better for hacks in a hurry is because of the agitation and low moisture of the process. To steam clean a soiled berber you should precondition with a prespray and sometimes use a 175 if very heavily soiled. The rinse of the steam cleaner should be just that; rinsing the cleaning chemicals out, not introducing more hi pH chemicals in the final step. A quick dry-vaccing is also an excellent problem preventer. Though these extra steps might take an extra one to two minutes per room, they eliminate the need to go over and over dirty areas using a one step emulisfier steam cleaning, overwetting and still getting poor results.

 

[Joel D]

If i see mysterious yellowish stains, a thorough acid rinse almost always works, sometimes amazingly.

If the techs are still learning, using acid rinses on everthing is a good safety net and can prevent and take care of a lot of problems.
just try to sell it for a little more money-"faster drying, softer fluffy feel, better flushing of pet stains odors, no soil attracting residue"

 

[Doug Cox]

LOL!!!

 

[Doug Cox]

Yeah, I want to know how you PH burn an Olefin fiber also. Greg, please explain.

 

[harryhides]

Greg, a few things here, I do not understand re your comments about Olefin.

What is pH burn ? Never heard of it.

Your "test" ie it floated can be a misleading test unless you have removed all air pockets from the fiber you are testing. Best to roll it under water between thumb and finger to remove all air which of course will cause it to float.
One drop of Formic acid is the absolutely surest way to confirm if it's Nylon or not.

Carpet can turn yellow for a few reasons, none of which have anything to do with whether or not they are made of Olefin.

BHT yellowing is quite rare but can be found in all fibers and activated by high alkalinity.
Cellulosic Browning requires cellulose in either the face fiber ( like wool ) or the backing fiber ( like jute ) again both are quite rare today.

The most likely cause of "yellow" is wicking of residual dirt, soft drinks or urine - usually in or near the backing.
All require moisture to reach this residue. This can occur with ANY face fiber but with Olefins or Polyester moisture will reach the residual dirt in or near the backing because they absorb so little moisture.

 

[Able 1]

I haven't used an acid rinse in at least 3 years... No problems here, I actually believe acid rinses leave a residue. I really like dry slurry, I mix 1 cup per 5 gals works great!

 

[Larry Cobb]

Greg;

I have seen this repeatedly in an off-white nylon plush carpet I cleaned several times.

Each extraction would look fine when I finished,

but the next day a yellow/brown stain would reappear.

It would be gone after I sprayed it with a powder reducing agent.

I would never use 10% citric acid, because of the sticky residue.
(in spite of what DuPont said)

It is also too weak for some stains.

Larry

 

[ruff]

Citric acid,
The ultimate solution.

Remove BHT yellowing while sowing the seeds for your next cleaning! (heavy residue/fast re soiling)
Remove that RESIDUE and most likely the BHT yellowing will come back.

And yes, Larry is right, DuPont loved it because it took them off the hook (due to BHT yellowing) for a short while at least.

 

[Mikey P]

pH burn is a term you (porty hacks) use to let the home owner know it was the last guy's fault..



trust me on that.

 

[The Great Oz]

A pH burn happens when high alkalines are used on wool carpet. We see this a lot when people use oxidizers on their pet stains. Won't get a reaction from the pH of the chemical on plastic carpet unless the fiber has an indicator dye, which is more likely to be used with acrylic fiber and less so with nylon. Very rarely is a poly fiber overdyed with an indicator, so having an olefin carpet react to pH would also be very rare. Olefin backing won't cause discoloration of the face fiber, but neither will jute backing if the carpet isn't soaked to the point of damage. This is probably why guys couldn't figure out your terminology.

Did have a Sears tech ask how we got out the discoloration that came up from the pad, and I'll admit to being confused for a minute myself.

Yellow discoloration after cleaning a nylon berber? Could be from over-application of protectant at the mill, but that hasn't been a problem for 15 years. Could be customer applied spotter that had an optical brightener; these will age to yellow. Could be a tech applied spotter and just wasn't rinsed well, or Host compacted into the nap.

Too bad Steamway no longer makes Yellow Eliminator, it was one of the few acid treatments that could be used as a post-application and not rinsed.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I have seriously never heard anyone have so much trouble with Berber carpet.

Nor have we used citric acid in the last 10-years or more. :shock:

 

[Greg Cole]

Yeah, I want to know how you PH burn an Olefin fiber also. Greg, please explain.

A term I created to emphasize the importance of drycleaning berber shiteatinggrin
Don't worry (with proper marketing) it will be around a Long Long time.......