TM buying question... Instal & shipping?

[jcooper]

I'm finding out that buying a TM is a pain in the neck!

Out of the four distributors we have quotes from(Just for the machine and instal)the quotes are different by about 3k!

Two include(free) instal(and fuel tap), two don't. One is even trying to get us to pay shipping, even though it's in stock.

That's like us charging a custy shipping charge on scotchgard.

Anyways, my question... Did you pay for instal(just machine) or shipping?

Thanks again!
Jerry

 

[Dolly Llama]

I'm finding out that buying a TM is a pain in the neck!

Out of the four distributors we have quotes from(Just for the machine and instal)the quotes are different by about 3k!

Two include(free) instal(and fuel tap), two don't. One is even trying to get us to pay shipping, even though it's in stock.

That's like us charging a custy shipping charge on scotchgard.

Anyways, my question... Did you pay for instal(just machine) or shipping?

Thanks again!
Jerry

Jerry, are the price differences for the "same" brand/type TM??



..L.T.A.

 

[jcooper]

yep!

 

[Chris A]

Try to look at one of each's installs, there may be a reason for the price difference, maybe not...

 

[Walt]

I'm finding out that buying a TM is a pain in the neck!

Out of the four distributors we have quotes from(Just for the machine and instal)the quotes are different by about 3k!

Two include(free) instal(and fuel tap), two don't. One is even trying to get us to pay shipping, even though it's in stock.

That's like us charging a custy shipping charge on scotchgard.

Anyways, my question... Did you pay for instal(just machine) or shipping?

Thanks again!
Jerry

Shipping could easily be 500-800 bucks considering where it's coming from - one is going to show you the charge, another isn't. But be assured, someone is paying for it one way or another. (hint: it's not them)

My advice on it - choose the one who you are most comfortable with. If they are more expensive, see if they might split the difference or match the price.

 

[Ken Snow]

Compare total price- like someone else said they are all charging for stuff, just maybe not reflecting it the same way. The total price should be your focus and if you are comfortable that all is equal in terms of confidence in install capabilities and list of accesories etc. then it is a simple decision, unless you have some layalty issues with one that is higher priced. In this case I would give them the opportunity to match the lower price.

If all is not equal then you have some more work to do. Like buying anything of significance you are the one who needs to be diligent in your shopping.

Ken

 

[joe harper]

IT IS NOT THAT HARD......!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go to JON DON....tell them you are a CASH BUYER....

Then take that INVOICE to INTERLINK.......

Then go back to JON DON with INTERLINK invoice....

Then go back to INTERLINK....with JON DON invoice.....

ect ect ect ect ect ........



Eventually....you will drive away in a FREE set-up.... :shock:
And all the FREE chems & tools you can STUFF in the truck...plus some CASH... 8)

Then put the UNIT on e-bay....take the money & buy a JUDSON.... !gotcha!

REPEAT process as often as you wish.."TM sales are a loss-leader item." :mrgreen:



"ISN'T COMPETION GRAND".....

ps "It is NO different than some IdIot'S here."
Taking a $100,000.00 unit & cleaning @.15 sqft.. :roll:

THEY MAKE IT UP IN VOLUME........... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Chris A]

Not to hi jack your thread harper but I have 100k worth of equipment and I make a shitload of money cleaning comm. Carpet at $.15.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Try to look at one of each's installs, there may be a reason for the price difference,

several reasons come to mind
(ASSuming the $3K difference is on the total "out the door" price for same package)

one wants more profit than another
and/or one's cost of doing biz is substantially higher than the other

One gave a bottom line "no haggle" price
the other gave a "sticker price" figuring on negotiations

One is hurting so bad he's willing to "give it away" (sell at or below cost) just to pay the electric bill this month


..L.T.A.

 

[joe harper]

Not to hi jack your thread harper but I have 100k worth of equipment and I make a shitload of money cleaning comm. Carpet at $.15.

No hi-jAcK.... 8)

Define ..."sHit lOaD".....

Is that 1 unit that cost 100k... :?:

also..Chris...i am purty sure...realize i was speaking of residential...right..?


ps..I do realize that comm. @ .15 is high-end work NOW...
How long before .15 turns into .08... Then define "Shit-loAd".... :shock:

 

[Giorgio]

Yeah... What Harper said.

Better yet, side step the middle man and purchase direct from the manufacturer if you can.

There are several reputable TM manufacturers who advertise on this site.

IT IS NOT THAT HARD......!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Go to JON DON....tell them you are a CASH BUYER....

Then take that INVOICE to INTERLINK.......

Then go back to JON DON with INTERLINK invoice....

Then go back to INTERLINK....with JON DON invoice.....

ect ect ect ect ect ........



Eventually....you will drive away in a FREE set-up.... :shock:
And all the FREE chems & tools you can STUFF in the truck...plus some CASH... 8)

Then put the UNIT on e-bay....take the money & buy a JUDSON.... !gotcha!

REPEAT process as often as you wish.."TM sales are a loss-leader item." :mrgreen:



"ISN'T COMPETION GRAND".....

ps "It is NO different than some IdIot'S here."
Taking a $100,000.00 unit & cleaning @.15 sqft.. :roll:

THEY MAKE IT UP IN VOLUME........... :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[joeynbgky]

Re: TM buying question... Instal & shipping?

Ok I bought a tcs chief from the factory. It was free install. I then bought the same machine from my disty I was charged shipping and for install... but I was fine with it because, there's a difference from the factory to a disty. But my disty did a better install and I would glady pay for install and shipping again because my disty is awesome. They have to make money too

Sent from my g2 using tapatalk. Whofat

 

[sam miller]

I'm finding out that buying a TM is a pain in the neck!

Out of the four distributors we have quotes from(Just for the machine and instal)the quotes are different by about 3k!

Two include(free) instal(and fuel tap), two don't. One is even trying to get us to pay shipping, even though it's in stock.

That's like us charging a custy shipping charge on scotchgard.

Anyways, my question... Did you pay for instal(just machine) or shipping?

Thanks again!
Jerry

I would say stick with the 2 that are 3 grand less and doing the install for free! The other 2 worked themselves out of the deal. Who care's what they want its what they get that matters!

If You can find anybody you Know who deals with these retailers find out hows the after install service and customer service!

 

[Desk Jockey]

Who do you have the most comfort with? You'll need to take distance from you and mechanic availability into consideration. It will do you no good to buy at the lowest price if they don't offer the level of service you need or if they are a long distance from you.

I'd be willing to pay a little more and deal with someone I trust and that's available when I have a problem. Now if that person is a lot higher I would show them the lowest of the bids and see if you can't negotiate some where in the middle.

If that dude is already the lowest of the bids, you are one damn lucky fool! Buy the unit and by him a drink! :mrgreen:

 

[Bill Bruders]

TM buying question... Instal & shipping?

Things to consider when you bypass your local supplier
1. You assume all liability for the proper installation if you make a single mistake with the fuel line attachment or proper mounting to the frame/chassis of the van and something happens well......
2. General maintenance. I've listened to the sales pitch that you can take it to a lawn mover repair shop. Hmmm well that might work if your problem is the engine (I'm not certain its a great bet that they will drop working on their regular lawn care customers equipment to fix your machine) if your problem is the pump you need to find a repair shop for that. If it's the blower ditto heater etc. Seems potentially risky to me and reminds me of the old penny wise and pound foolish.
3. How about any technical service updates, your on the hook for that as well.
4. Finally time is money in my view and I'd rather focus on making money cleaning than "saving" money being a mechanic or driving around from repair shop to repair shop.

 

[Giorgio]

Sometimes i wonder if TM's are over enginered on purpose to force carpet cleaners to distributors for service and repair...

Wouldn't it be nice if distributors had a complete monopoly over every single truckmount sale, service and repair? Not to mention all the dough rolling in from chems and supplies. Just think how much money they could make while laughing, mocking and making fun behind our backs all the way to the bank.

Don't know about you but i love watching their little eye's light up when i tell em my HX'r froze (if you look close enough you can almost see the dollar signs in their eyes). ahhh, it's such a warm fuzzy feeling inside to be able to make their day!

On second thought, i'm tired of getting jerked around by local yocal distributors w/ big online stores and little ceasar complexes.

No thank you... My next machine will be direct from the mfg'r and simple enough a chimpanzee can fix.

 

[PCCN]

Whatever you decide on MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ALL FIGURES IN WRITING UP FRONT! I bought a repo unit from Interlink and expected to pay shipping and install. BUT, after taking 2 weeks to get it to my city, it took another 30 days (NO, no typo here!) to get it installed. The svc. tech told me the install cost determined by the nubmer of hours to do the work. Fine. But, all they installed was the machine adn the waste tank - PERIOD! I was then charged $1,200 for a full install according to the sales rep. who said this was their standard cost. A 3 day job, partial install, and overcharged - hmmmmmmmm, somebody isn't communicating with their co-workers! I finally ended up taking it all the way to Chicago JonDon to get all the problems corrected anyway. Hmmm, learned my lesson.

 

[Robbie]

Sometimes i wonder if TM's are over enginered on purpose to force carpet cleaners to distributors for service and repair...

Wouldn't it be nice if distributors had a complete monopoly over every single truckmount sale, service and repair? Not to mention all the dough rolling in from chems and supplies. Just think how much money they could make while laughing, mocking and making fun behind our backs all the way to the bank.

Don't know about you but i love watching their little eye's light up when i tell em my HX'r froze (if you look close enough you can almost see the dollar signs in their eyes). ahhh, it's such a warm fuzzy feeling inside to be able to make their day!

On second thought, i'm tired of getting jerked around by local yocal distributors w/ big online stores and little ceasar complexes.

No thank you... My next machine will be direct from the mfg'r and simple enough a chimpanzee can fix.

Obviously you have never been a distributor!!! You need to support your local disty otherwise you might not have one. I gaurentee you will get charged for any repair if you buy from a different distributer....Also buy whatever you are going to need for the immediate future. I'd buy chems for the year also. Getting things in a package deal with a truckmount will most likely get you a discount on anything else you want.....I use to work at an ILS Distributer and I'd own a CC and Restoration company over being a disty any day of the week....Also you think your local disty is going to stay late for you on a Friday to fix your machine if you buy it from someone else??? Don't think he will care if you have a big job over the weekend...I'd def show the invoice and see if you could matchit if not with cash maybe see if he can through in 3k worth of chemical....You get chemical that you will use and he saves money giving you chemicals that he buys at a discount rate....just my opinion...

 

[Larry Cobb]

Jerry;

A good install consists of several steps:

1. Layout of all the components of the TM package.

2. Insuring no interference with items under the truck floor.

3. Installing the fuel tap kit to meet EPA regulations and
fuel draw to almost the tank bottom.

4. Proper backup devices under the floor to insure safety in the event of an accident.

5. Careful routing of all the electrical wiring to insure safety.

6. Operation of the installed TM for at least 30 minutes.

7. Explanation of start-up & shut-down procedures.

8. Safety considerations for proper operation.

9. Operator instruction while actually cleaning some carpet.

All of these would comprise a complete installation.

Shipping requires building a sturdy framed crate,
to prevent damage by freight handlers and packers.

Larry

 

[Walt]

Things to consider when you bypass your local supplier
1. You assume all liability for the proper installation if you make a single mistake with the fuel line attachment or proper mounting to the frame/chassis of the van and something happens well......
2. General maintenance. I've listened to the sales pitch that you can take it to a lawn mover repair shop. Hmmm well that might work if your problem is the engine (I'm not certain its a great bet that they will drop working on their regular lawn care customers equipment to fix your machine) if your problem is the pump you need to find a repair shop for that. If it's the blower ditto heater etc. Seems potentially risky to me and reminds me of the old penny wise and pound foolish.
3. How about any technical service updates, your on the hook for that as well.
4. Finally time is money in my view and I'd rather focus on making money cleaning than "saving" money being a mechanic or driving around from repair shop to repair shop.

You make some good points. However, your arguments are based on a complex machine residing near a service center. If we have to travel far or the service center isn't familiar with our complex machine, then we are in big trouble. It could be days before we are up and running. Further, no one is excited about traveling 2 hours to have a simple part replaced or a service done. Likely, it will be ignored until it becomes critical.

 

[Bill Bruders]

TM buying question... Instal & shipping?

Actually Walt my comments are focused on any machine. Personally I feel your new machine is just as complicated as anything we make. Company's that sell direct commonly sell people on the idea that anyone can fix their machines, they have too:-) I wish you the best on your new purchase but I know how often people have to bring units that where supposed to be easy to maintain and so simple nothing could ever go wrong to someone else to be fixed.

 

[XTREME1]

Write an RFP with everything you're looking for and a request for a final number at the bottom along with a section for addtl suggestions, send it to all the people you are looking with and bang you get your proposals in the form you want. Simple

 

[Walt]

Actually Walt my comments are focused on any machine. Personally I feel your new machine is just as complicated as anything we make. Company's that sell direct commonly sell people on the idea that anyone can fix their machines, they have too:-) I wish you the best on your new purchase but I know how often people have to bring units that where supposed to be easy to maintain and so simple nothing could ever go wrong to someone else to be fixed.

Bill,

Please don't take my previous comment personally. I was not speaking specifically about SS machines. I believe that SS is a very innovative company that stands behind its products with a good warranty. I own a SS upholstery tool and I'm eager to demo the new rotary - it looks very promising. I am certain that there are many people who are happy and will be happy with the purchase of one of your machines. I seriously considered a 570. It is an impressive looking machine in a small package.

But, this isn't my first machine purchase. I've had many different types of machines (not just TM's) in the field. And they all had one thing in common, the more complex the design (ie solenoids, moving parts) the more often they needed to be repaired. And the more compact the designs were more difficult to repair. That translated to more frequent break downs with longer down time.

For instance, I know someone who had a problem with his new machine (the maker isn't important- let's just say one of the big boys). It took 6 hours to replace a simple part because they had to disassemble a complex water box. The part also took a separate day to ship. So, he was down for two days. Now the water box design is unique and clever, but do you think that is what he was thinking about when he missed work and irritated clients?

Another example - I know a guy with a new machine with less than 300 hours on it. He couldn't get more than 50 hours off a single set of belts. His belts broke 6 times in 300 hours. The real problem was he lives two hours from the dealer. So, four hours of driving and he had to wait have to work done - basically most of a day. And then he had to go back and finish the job that he broke down at. Sure it was still under warranty, but do you think he was thrilled after spending 25k+ on a new machine?

The local school district has a machine with the Hyundai engine on it. The engine blew out in less than 400 hours (one year). A freak occurrence no doubt, but either way they were down for 3 weeks. The had to disassemble the truck mount to get to the engine. More than 20 man hours. Still under warranty but nobody was happy.

There are many clever designs out there. But we don't know how they are going to hold up after a few years - nobody can. Unless it's been in the field for a long period of time, it's just speculation on longevity. Ask Vortex owners how they feel about their "10 year" machines. I've yet to see one with the original blower, transmission and engine with more than 5k hours on it. That's only 5 years for a busy company.

A Judson machine doesn't have a clever water box. If it has a solenoid I can't find it. I am not mechanical but I can change the belts on the machine in less than 25 minutes with two adjustable wrenches. I can swap out a blower in less than a couple of hours (by myself). I can swap out the pump or the engine in the same amount of time. The electrical wiring is so obvious, my wife could fix it. It is ridiculously simple. Funny thing is, I don't plan on doing the work myself. For the most part, I will still have the local shop do it. I really like the mechanic. He installed it. He likes the idea of working on it, because he doesn't have to a contortionist or remove the machine from the truck.

 

[Bob Foster]

 

[Bill Bruders]

TM buying question... Instal & shipping?

Thanks Walt I didn't think it was personal actually I feel this is a really good subject and quite relevant.
I'm very concerned about distributors in our industry, this economy is hurting most all of them quite a bit. It's a darn tough market out there for everyone on the distribution side no one is getting rich many are struggling to keep the doors open. I'm a bit old school I admit but I truly feel that had it not been for the distributors in this biz who have (and continue to) provide education, product support, service etc. Many of us wouldn't be in this industry or able to have this discussion.
I also know that many cleaners feel that distributors make too much money for little actual work which I don't agree with either. Honestly none of them are pulling down big $ as no one makes more money than a cleaner one either their equip or chems.
No one should over pay for anything but I fully support company's that do it right should make a healthy profit

 

[Phoenix Phil]

Look at Judson, Cobb Carpet and Accelerated and TCS they seem to have the best simple pieces of equipment with pricing on their web sites and they support the industry. They are small yet with a strong history and good reputations. The big boys make too complicated a machines that corporate cleaners seem to like.

 

[Bob Foster]

I believe there are many reasons why a person would choose to buy directly from a manufacturer rather than through a distributor and most of them are not related to price. It is often a person who has previously purchased through a distributor that purchases direct from a manufacturer.

Those non-first time truckmount purchasers have consciously chosen to buy direct or a different brand based on their previous experience with the unit they owned and how a distributor dealt with them.

In this market things are tough for everyone.

Hopefully a company new to manufacturing truckmounts with new designs will take a serious look at how to overcome the genuine skepticism that many of the existing truckmount manufacturing companies have earned by their level of commitment to service, performance and reliability both at a manufacturing and distributor level.

It's a simple fact that many TM owners, like the manufacturers of these units themselves, share the attitude that many distributors will not or can not take care of the end user as well as they can by dealing directly with each other. Some manufacturers through their years of wisdom in this business have figured out how to do this quite well.

 

[joeynbgky]

Re: TM buying question... Instal & shipping?

I can change all 3 belts on my tcs in under 3 minutes! No taking nothing off, or covers

Sent from my g2 using tapatalk. Whofat

 

[XTREME1]

I wouldn't even try to change the belts in my Prochems

 

[Desk Jockey]

I prefer a distributor network, I don't care to be a mechanic, I've tried it and I don't have the patience for it or the cool tools.

I'd much rather have a pro do our repairs, they are better and faster and we will do what we do best, we'll clean.

While I think those smaller manufacturers build a good product all of those listed are propane burners. We were using propane back in the 70's, I don't really care to go back to that.

While the modern designs maybe be a little more complicated I enjoy the fact I don't need a secondary fuel source nor the time needed to purchase the fuel either. Propane isn't at every gas station, you usually have to go to an RV or rental yard and work around their times.

Some guys enjoy working on their machines, I'm not knocking that. If you have the skills and enjoy it, why not. As I mentioned I think the smaller builders build a fine product, it's just not one I care to buy for my company.