Tools of the trade

[Brian R]

I've said before. We know most of our techs really well. The others are referrals from people in the industry.
That video is on two websites. One in the Sacramento area and one in the Dallas area.
Both areas we know the techs really well and have been working with them long enough to get to know them really welll.

Next.

 

[XTREME1]

you reference it is your carpet cleaning company and your girl mentions your employees and their training, you can say it is not deceptive advertising but it is. I could give a crap either way but it is deceptive advertising

 

[Brian R]

The customer even says..."Brian and his team, whoever comes to our door..."


I'm not telliing anyone that it will be me personally. What company does that anyway?


I can't believe we are even having this conversation. :roll:

 

[Brian R]

you reference it is your carpet cleaning company and your girl mentions your employees and their training, you can say it is not deceptive advertising but it is. I could give a crap either way but it is deceptive advertising

It IS my carpet cleaning company.
And
She says "our Technicians"

 

[XTREME1]

she calls them employees as well Brian

 

[Brian R]

She says "rather than employees" but now that I really pay attention to it, I see where it can be misunderstood.

Oh God, get the cross John, quick. :mrgreen:

 

[John Olson]

[quote="Greg Crowley":2e0257aw]you reference it is your carpet cleaning company and your girl mentions your employees and their training, you can say it is not deceptive advertising but it is. I could give a crap either way but it is deceptive advertising

It IS my carpet cleaning company.
And
She says "our Technicians"[/quote:2e0257aw]

Brian,Brian, Brian....You do NOT have any Technicians. To be YOUR technicians they would have to be on your payroll and you would have had to train and educate them. They are INDIVIDUAL companies you sell work to. You see that is what it is not what it could/might/sorta be. See the difference between the truth and whatever you think it is.

 

[Brian R]

:roll: ...I need to get a more power full eye rolling emoticon for John I guess.

They ARE on my payroll...they don't do it for free.
I HAVE trained some of them....not that it has anything to do with this.

Splittin hairs.

You put your spin on it and I'll put mine.

 

[XTREME1]

Why didn't she say they seem like family rather than subcontractors or "just say they seem more like family than grapefruit" because if it wasn't an intent to be deceptive why use the word employee?

If you have to look for the gray area it is deception

If they are on the payroll and not an invoice payment then you really better look at the healthcare laws, workers comp etc etc

 

[ACE]

I think anyone dumb enough to work for you long term is a tool.

 

[Brian R]

Why didn't she say they seem like family rather than subcontractors or "just say they seem more like family than grapefruit" because if it wasn't an intent to be deceptive why use the word employee?

If you have to look for the gray area it is deception

There was no written script for that. She said what she said and she knew then that we didn't have employees. It was totally off the cuff, no real prep at all.
I said above that I could see how what she said could be misunderstood.
That video was made well over a year ago and I've never looked that deep into it.

I'm not looking for a gray area, you guys are looking for a red area.


Oh Ace, you can go yourname yourself.
Your just being a dick to be a dick. You really have no idea.

 

[John Olson]

:roll: ...I need to get a more power full eye rolling emoticon for John I guess.

They ARE on my payroll...they don't do it for free.
I HAVE trained some of them....not that it has anything to do with this.

Splittin hairs.

You put your spin on it and I'll put mine.

You said you had no employees? I guess I missed that these guys are on your payroll. If your paying payroll,fed,medicare,state taxes on these guys then they are your technicians and it is your company that is doing the work and please accept my sincere aplogies. If not then please explain this

They ARE on my payroll

 

[Brian R]

I cut them checks...I just don't take out taxes.

Full Circle is on my payroll at as well.

Maybe not in the true sense of the word. Good God.

But I accept your apology either way. Nice talkin with ya.

 

[joe harper]

I cut them checks...I just don't take out taxes.

Full Circle is on my payroll at as well.

Maybe not in the true sense of the word. Good God.

But I accept your apology either way. Nice talkin with ya.

IN "most" STATES...They are his Employees...REGARDLESS...how he makes payment.. :shock:

If he instructs them ..when to be at the job..how to perform the service..& the payment is
made to his COMPANY... :!: "He is LIABLE.." for EVERTHING...including their TAXES.. :wink:

A 1099 will NOT SuRfIcE... :!:

They also must produce evidence that they do less than 5o% of their business without HIM..!

 

[XTREME1]

If they are on the Payroll you really need to clearly define their status. Being on the payroll as opposed to labor costs on invoices etc can cause you many future problems especially since you keep saying they are on the payroll. Misclassifying employees and independent contractors can cost alot of money

Common Law Rules
Facts that provide evidence of the degree of control and independence fall into three categories:

Behavioral: Does the company control or have the right to control what the worker does and how the worker does his or her job?
Financial: Are the business aspects of the worker’s job controlled by the payer? (these include things like how worker is paid, whether expenses are reimbursed, who provides tools/supplies, etc.)
Type of Relationship: Are there written contracts or employee type benefits (i.e. pension plan, insurance, vacation pay, etc.)? Will the relationship continue and is the work performed a key aspect of the business?
Businesses must weigh all these factors when determining whether a worker is an employee or independent contractor. Some factors may indicate that the worker is an employee, while other factors indicate that the worker is an independent contractor. There is no “magic” or set number of factors that “makes” the worker an employee or an independent contractor, and no one factor stands alone in making this determination. Also, factors which are relevant in one situation may not be relevant in another.

The keys are to look at the entire relationship, consider the degree or extent of the right to direct and control, and finally, to document each of the factors used in coming up with the determination.

Form SS-8
If, after reviewing the three categories of evidence, it is still unclear whether a worker is an employee or an independent contractor, Form SS-8, Determination of Worker Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding (PDF) can be filed with the IRS. The form may be filed by either the business or the worker. The IRS will review the facts and circumstances and officially determine the worker’s status.

Be aware that it can take at least six months to get a determination, but a business that continually hires the same types of workers to perform particular services may want to consider filing the Form SS-8 (PDF).

Employment Tax Obligations
Once a determination is made (whether by the business or by the IRS), the next step is filing the appropriate forms and paying the associated taxes.

Forms and associated taxes for independent contractors
Forms and associated taxes for employees
Misclassification of Employees
Consequences of Treating an Employee as an Independent Contractor
If you classify an employee as an independent contractor and you have no reasonable basis for doing so, you may be held liable for employment taxes for that worker (the relief provisions, discussed below, will not apply). See Internal Revenue Code section 3509 for more information.

 

[Brian R]

You'll have to excuse me. I just meant I was paying them.

I've been through the laws with my accountant and we drew our conclusions.

 

[ACE]

Are you covering all those subs with Workers Comp?

 

[Ron Werner]

The customer even says..."Brian and his team, whoever comes to our door..."


I'm not telliing anyone that it will be me personally. What company does that anyway?


I can't believe we are even having this conversation. :roll:

I do

 

[KevinL]

Brian, you're so deceitful, you wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face. No customer calls a carpet cleaning company and expects to have sub-contractors show up to do the work. You're letting people think they are your employees and that is a LIE.

 

[Goomer]

No customer calls a carpet cleaning company and expects to have sub-contractors show up to do the work.

When I need a service, I take a little time and research a company. I get my information from as many sources as I can, mainly the internet. I will then pick one based on many things including:
How have they presented their business?
Have they presented themselves as professionals?
What is their experience level?
Do I feel confident in using them?
Most importantly....
Who do I believe will be coming into my home?
This is very important to me.

Now if I hire "Priority Carpet Cleaning", because I am comfortable with what I have seen, and LIPSHITZ CC shows up, I would not be a happy camper. The first thing to come to mind would be "Who the fook are these guys".
I would be pissed if I "fell for" the personal, attentive service of "Priority Carpet Cleaning" you portray in your video, and then have some other company show up. Why? Simply because I did not choose this other company. I wouldn't know who they are, where they are from, and wtf is going on, and I would now be pressured to let them into my house.

"I chose "Priority Carpet Cleaning", and I want that damn guy in the suit!"

I'm sure most people might not give a shit, but I would, and I am sure there are more people who would.
It seem you are using your "Priority Carpet Cleaning" entity, as your own personal "Network Carpet Cleaning". Why not call it what it is?
I would think it's because your returns are better because the perceived identity of "Priority Carpet Cleaning" is more inviting to a potential client than some "Network".

I agree with Olson, you do what you want with your business, just admit it's a little "Tricky", and your really just a "Pimp". shiteatinggrin

One thing I don't understand. Seems to me the long term goal is to eventually build a business that is mostly referrals/repeats based on long term relationships, where the price shoppers and problem customers have been weeded out. How do you plan on achieving this if your always sending some "referred" sub out on all your jobs?

 

[ACE]

One thing I don't understand. Seems to me the long term goal is to eventually build a business that is mostly referrals based on long term relationships, where the price shoppers and problem customers have been weeded out. How do you plan on achieving this if your always sending some "referred" sub out on all your jobs.

High end, Low end who care's when you make the same % on any job. Hey, sure we got a sub for that.
He may have got some of the jobs but it’s his subs that get his repeats and referrals. A sub job is hard to turn down when you don’t have much on the books but before you know it you are building someone else’s business and don’t have time or money to build your own. Brian is taking 50% of the total and 80% of the profit.

I recently ended a relationship with a company I had been subbing for the last 8 years. It was a little better deal then what Brian offered (I got 66% of the total.) It took me a long time to get out of being a sub because they kept me very busy and it was hard to put much money back into my own business.

I am happy to sub for a friend to help them out, but take my advice, don’t ever depend on subcontract work for any significant portion of your revenue.

 

[joe harper]

One thing I don't understand. Seems to me the long term goal is to eventually build a business that is mostly referrals based on long term relationships, where the price shoppers and problem customers have been weeded out. How do you plan on achieving this if your always sending some "referred" sub out on all your jobs.

High end, Low end who care's when you make the same % on any job. Hey, sure we got a sub for that.
He may have got some of the jobs but it’s his subs that get his repeats and referrals. A sub job is hard to turn down when you don’t have much on the books but before you know it you are building someone else’s business and don’t have time or money to build your own. Brian is taking 50% of the total and 80% of the profit.

I recently ended a relationship with a company I had been subbing for the last 8 years. It was a little better deal then what Brian offered (I got 66% of the total.) It took me a long time to get out of being a sub because they kept me very busy and it was hard to put much money back into my own business.

I am happy to sub for a friend to help them out, but take my advice, don’t ever depend on subcontract work for any significant portion of your revenue.

Mike...

You have a VERY GOOD grasp of this subject... :!:
I am HAPPY for you ...that you have made the BREAK...!


Ps "We do what we have to do." "Untill we can do better".. :wink:

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I'm with John. Brian I'm sure you're a nice guy, but truth evades you.

Thanks,
Lee, just a carpet cleaner

 

[joe harper]

OK Mary...

Your thread is dIeIng a SLoooooW..death here...

So..."RiddLe Me THIS"..... :?:

What is your "personal" GOAL...for INCOME...?

And don't GIVE me the MosT I can MaKe..ShEite.... :roll:


For THIS year...What is the "NUMBER"....you would like to ACHEIVE.... :idea:

 

[Brian R]

OK, I will say one more thing in this thread and then I am done for various reasons.

Anyone who has accused me of being untruthful has either been screwed too many times or too hard OR really needs to take a look at themselves.
I think they call that "projecting"

Companies (carpet cleaning and other) use subs daily to get whatever job done. They don't put out a memo that the guy doing the work is a sub.
Hell, If I put out a newsletter to all my clients explaining everything, most wouldn't give a crap.

I use Technicians to get the job done and they get paid well. You are all just arguing semantics.

Ace is just pissed off because he's pissed off at himself for letting himself get "screwed" by another company and now has a vendetta against anyone who may be in or near to the category of the company he thinks screwed him.

Get over it bud...move on..it's ok..you're doing better now from what you tell us. Live in the now.

I think everyone else if giving me a hard time for their own reasons.

So if you want to keep the mud slinging just to try and scar my reputation with no merit what so ever...you can go **** yourself.

I believe most are giving me a hard time just to do it..and that's fine...but I don't want people to think I'm dishonest because of a few people who really have no idea what's going on my world.

That is all.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Rationalize however you like.

You don't clean carpets. You don't own the equipment. You don't have any employees who clean carpets.

...but, but.... you KNOW a fella or two who can.

 

[XTREME1]

I don't give a rats ass how you run your business but you are a full fldged liar and I say that with as much respect as I can give a liar. Your advertising is blatantly false, ingeneral I think you are full of shit most of the time.
I wrote a letter to someone a few months back about some brokedicks on the board and how when they can't make it they try to suck off the suckers on the board, you are no different in my opinion. I don't care either way because I read threads about guys lowering their prices and I look at what they charge and they all made fun of my business model, so I hope you become rich but you are just full of shit.

 

[Ryan]

Brian their just all pissed that you make money without working while they push a wand all day.

 

[XTREME1]

you nailed it rhino BTW can I get fries with that