Updated: WARNING!!! $5000 ADA vilolation fine for CC's

[vegijohn]

BAD NEWS: The ADA (Americans With Disabilities Act) have gotten lawyers are are suing cities that do not enforce the ADA rules. Because this could be a cash cow for lawyers who sue cities for the ADA which is a federal law this is going to effect all of us.

After reading over 200 pages of govt regulations it boils down to this-- Our hose cannot touch a PUBLIC sidewalk and or be placed in such a way that might impede or endanger pedestrian traffic.

If you decide to use a ramp here are the requirements: If ramp is 4 inches high-- The up slope portion must be 4 ft long then level off to a landing that is at least 60 inches long then the down slope another 4 ft long. because the ramp will be over 72 inches it must have handrails on both sides. For more info go to
http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm

If you elevate the hoses they must be at least 80 inches high. If the hoses are too far over head and pose a danger then you must provide overhead protection. (painter's scaffolding). the ramp must be at least 36 inches wide- unobstructed. Additional rules in your area may also apply.

So basically if the custy has a private driveway and you can position the hose without going into a publicly accessed area you should be OK. In SF we have to leave at least 4 feet of unobstructed sidewalk space for ped traffic.

Maybe EVEN more bad news: It might be illegal to use a TM in an apartment building with two or more units in SF because of other rules. I'll get back with more info if this is federal as well.

This may be a inconvenience but being sued because someone trips over our hoses would suck.

 

[John Buxton]

lets kill all the lawyers, lets kill em tonight!

 

[vegijohn]

Damn!! These ADA rules have already cost me over $2000 in four days in lost business.
Parking was an issue and this commercial carpet was too dirty to clean w/ portable.
Doing business in San Francisco sucks!!! This city has lost so many good companies that once employed 1000's of people.

I think it was in the magazine "U.S. News & World Report" the article was about how other countries do things better then the U.S.. When it came to the freedom to conduct and own a business without govt. regulations and red tape America was ranked 9th or 10th (I can't remember exactly). That means up to 9 other countries had more FREEDOM.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Vegijohn,

I am working on a solution to your problem. I have a local manufacturer of portable ramps designing an ADA compliant, portable ramp, specifically for carpet cleaning. It would accommodate three hoses. One being 2" vacuum hose, the others being 1/4" sol hose and 3/4" incoming water hose.

We currently sell the typical hose ramps you see in our Interlink catalog, and while most every locale seems t find them sufficient. However, it is becoming a reality that some jurisdictions are taking a "letter of the law" approach, rather than a "spirit of the law" that includes practical cost considerations.

Let's see if we can find a solution that works.

I'll have some info shortly.

 

[alazo1]

If you decide to use a ramp here are the requirements: If ramp is 4 inches high-- The up slope portion must be 4 ft long then level off to a landing that is at least 60 inches long then the down slope another 4 ft long. because the ramp will be over 72 inches it must have handrails on both sides. For more info go to
http://www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm

That does suck big time. You would think that there would have to be such a ramp available if they make these regulations wouldn't you. I understand their point but a sensible solution for service people should be in place.

Have you checked around. If I'm reading right it's 14' but maybe there's a foldup available made of plastic that would fit in your V and easy to set up.

Good luck, the little searching I did didn't come up with anything but expect to see it in your local distributor soon

Albert

 

[vegijohn]

You can only use ramps on level sidewalks because the ramp
cannot deflect in any way.

My dad has already designed an "easy" solution. It is a 2" pvc pipe archway system. takes about 5-10 minutes to set up. sometimes we need to use yellow caution tape and cones. OSHA and the city approved it. We are going to start charging an ADA compliance fee of about $20 to $50 for those job sites that require the extra work.

The ADA class that I have to take is on Feb. 6th. If there is interest I will go to Mike Fest and discuss the issues, problems and solutions with the group and share what if have learned.

 

[The Preacher]

what compels you to stay in such a place???

 

[Rex Tyus]

It would accommodate three hoses. One being 2" vacuum hose, the others being 1/4" sol hose and 3/4" incoming water hose.

Any chance you could make that 2.5"? I know only a fraction of cleaners have converted to 2.5" as of now, but designing for tomorrow could be beneficial. Besides it is the performance freaks that like to buy the new stuff first anyway. Making it for 2" users alienates the easiest sale.

 

[Rex Tyus]

We are going to start charging an ADA compliance fee of about $20 to $50 for those job sites that require the extra work.

You might want to check on the legalities of that also. Wouldn't be surprised if that is illegal as well.

 

[vegijohn]

what compels you to stay in such a place???

Starting All over again in another city would suck. lets face it-- the first two years of a new CC in new area is very financially challenging.

I'm going to be sending a letter to all my SF clients explaining the need for changes in the way we do business in SF. And the extra charges are necessary for me to do business in SF. My clients so far seem very sympathetic to the problem.

My company is well know and talked about in SF. I do almost no advertising-- my customers do all the advertising for me. I don't need to give on site estimates because the prospect is already pre-sold on my company before they call. Price is rarely an issue.

I can pick and chose my clients and if they seem like too much of a pain I'll ether fire them or give them a warning.

I have this one billionaire customer who wasn't showing me enough respect for me, my crew or my time-- I had a calm but stern and respectful talk her and inform her what she had to do if she wanted to continue doing business with us. She didn't hire us for awhile but when we came back about 5 months later all of her servants were really happy to see us and she treated us with much more respect. She has gone through several Personal Assistants, Maids and Maintenance men but she still keeps us. This Christmas she even sent us a gift basket with a very nice letter.

 

[vegijohn]

We are going to start charging an ADA compliance fee of about $20 to $50 for those job sites that require the extra work.

You might want to check on the legalities of that also. Wouldn't be surprised if that is illegal as well.

Good suggestion Rex-thanks. If so I'll call it a "difficult hook up fee"

 

[floorguy]

what compels you to stay in such a place???

Starting All over again in another city would suck. lets face it-- the first two years of a new CC in new area is very financially challenging.

uh huh, and the 2k you are already out isnt financially trying???


Id counter sue for making it hard to work and make a living... I mean after all isnt that what the ADA is about?? allowing these people a even playing field as to be a "normal" person...


doesnt seem to normal or level if you have to keep forking over money for things...when in return they dont...

Really they could have a sidewalk closed for a few hrs, wouldnt hurt a soul

 

[Greg Loe]

I just turned a guy in for running his hoses across the sidewalk. What a hack!!!!!

 

[Greg Loe]

This law could be used even in a residential neighborhood when you run your hoses across the side walk, out in the burbs?

 

[duckster]

Portys don't have those problems.
Last I checked nor do rotary shampooers.

Gosh, once again some of us miss all the phun.

 

[vegijohn]

In SF to close down a sidewalk you have to apply for and pay for a permit as well as draw up a "blueprint" of the area effected.

THIS ADA LAW IS FEDERAL and will soon effect all of us. SF was looking the other way and was not enforcing the law until the ADA threatened to sue the city.

LETS FACE IT--- Our hoses are a tripping hazard. If an old person were to trip and fall because of our hoses they could break a hip--- old people usually die within a short time after this type of injury.

BE SMART-- Working in a safe manner is always a good policy. These added safety requirements will make our streets safe for the public-- AS WELL AS reduce our's and our clients FINANCIAL RISK EXPOSURE FROM LAWSUITS.

As for the loss of $2000 in business-- NO BIG DEAL-- It was replace by new business. We are still cleaning 8 to 10 homes a day, 6 days a week.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Sometimes hoses are a pita but a tm is nessasary. This job took 1 hr to set up but we cleaned for 6 without dumping and refilling @ 700psi with 18 flow. No fun with a porty there duckster. The pic with the sparklets bottle was after pre-vac.
The pics are from 2 different services that why the van changed colors

 

[Lee Stockwell]

From Cleanfax:
RE: Why is it...: Lee Stockwell: 3/27/2005 12:37:11 AM
I have an aluminum version of that, pretty common in industry. In some cases it's easier to secure a section of 2" PVC above the walkway. In our case, from the roof of our van to the metal awning frame of a restaurant we clean downtown. Loop the solution hose around it.
Thanks,
Lee

 

[vegijohn]

Sorry "Out of Character" you are doing the same thing I got fined $623 for-- the next time it will be $873 and an additional $250 each violation after.

When ever you hang hose from a height that might cause physical harm you need to provide overhead protection ie. Scaffolding. For this we will charge $150 for the safety compliance fee.

Remember-- even though I was charged only $623, the fine could have been $5000.

Every time you set up your hoses in a way that violates the ADA--- YOU Are PLAYING $5000 DOLLAR RUSSIAN ROULETTE.-- Not with bullets but with your hard earned $$$.

 

[duckster]

Carpet cleaning with a porty and shampooer is always fun. Hard work, but fun too. If you like hard work.

I get what you are saying though, Jess. You mean it was a royal pain in the arse to do.

 

[vegijohn]

As for the loss of $2000 in business-- NO BIG DEAL-- It was replace by new business. We are still cleaning 8 to 10 homes a day, 6 days a week.

Actually the above quote is "sugar coated" I turned down most of the lost business because I didn't want to deal with the hassle these safety laws require.

Because of these safety requirements we have notice a sharp decline in our "On Time Reliability" and Productivity -- we may have to go down to 6 to 8 homes a day.

My employees want to stop doing business in SF. Problem is we have hundreds of clients in SF advertising for us. We owe it to them to try to work through this and stay in SF.

I hear in New York City the CC's charge $250 per room w/ a two room min.-- working w/ a portable. maybe that is where SF in headed.

 

[duckster]

I checked the stanley steemer site and even they charge more for jobs where they need to use a porty. This is a direct quote:

"Portable equipment may be required for areas above the 2nd floor or if guaranteed adjacent parking is not available. Use of portable equipment may result in a higher required job minimum or a price increase, with necessary price adjustments made at time of service. Contact your local Stanley Steemer for more information."

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

I received a quotation from the local builder of portable ramps. The cost or an ADA compliant aluminum ramp with 4' of ingress and egress, and a 60" platform landing, with handrails would run about $3,300.00 net. The device would be portable, being tote-able in the van.

And of course, it's Aircraft/spacecraft/marine aluminum, like everything else in this industry. LOL :roll:

 

[vegijohn]

I received a quotation from the local builder of portable ramps. The cost or an ADA compliant aluminum ramp with 4' of ingress and egress, and a 60" platform landing, with handrails would run about $3,300.00 net. The device would be portable, being tote-able in the van.quote]

Wow that is a lot of $$$$ but it might be worth it. What is the est. weight and fold up size? How big would the hose opening be? It must also be covered in a non slip surface.

I have contacted Masterblend and suggested that they lobby the ADA to see if we can get a waiver since these ramps are down only temporary. Of course that will probably take months or years to approve.

 

[Ron Werner]

I wonder if firemen are going to have an issue?


Shawn, how much are your ramps? DO you have a link to a page with a pic?

 

[duckster]

I wonder if firemen are going to have an issue?


Shawn, how much are your ramps? DO you have a link to a page with a pic?

They'll just use portables

 

[Greenie]

So....Vegi and Shawn...what ever became of this ADA ramp dilemma?

Honestly, if you had a couple of those yellow masterblend ramps out, and all foot traffic was cruising on by over the tops of your hoses, would anyone really bitch? I mean short ramps and all, wheelchairs don't seem to have an issue with them.

Vegi?

 

[vegijohn]

So....Vegi and Shawn...what ever became of this ADA ramp dilemma?

Honestly, if you had a couple of those yellow masterblend ramps out, and all foot traffic was cruising on by over the tops of your hoses, would anyone really bitch? I mean short ramps and all, wheelchairs don't seem to have an issue with them.

Vegi?

I'm not worried about sensible people--- I worry about lawyers and civil servants. The masterblend ramps are not ADA compliant. But I am using them.
I heard one of my competitors got a $900+ fine while using the ramps.

Basically the ramps need to have handrails and side rails so that the wheel chair won't fall off ramp. The grade must be 1" per 12" run on each side with 60" level mid-section. ramp cannot deflect at all-- which means it must be on about 14ft of level sidewalk--- hard to find in most areas.

While doing the commercial job mentioned in other post I got the feeling that this guy standing near the work site was calling the authorities about my ramps and job site. I was not set up properly and could have been fined. A little while later a lady in wheel chair came by and was able to go over two set of ramps set up in series.

If I get fined again I may think about boycotting San Francisco.

 

[Greenie]

or....charging $500 a room to cover fines...lol

this is just crazy.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I think you should take a look at an Orbot and try using the OP method. Get two of them and double your production.


It's not worth the fight over running hoses and getting fines. Use the TM on jobs you don't have issues with.