Van runs too cool

[joey895]

I have a 2000 gmc one ton with a 350r engine and a white magic pro1200. My van never gets to over about 160 degrees or so maybe 170 in the florida summer. Once it heats up it holds steady, the needle hardly moves at all. I put in a new 195 degree thermostat thinking the old one was maybe stuck open but it did not help. What else could cause it to run too cool?

I know running rich can cause it too run cooler but not that much cooler right?

I think I have a intake leak could that be sucking air causing it too run cooler?

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

Are you using dex-cool or regular anti freeze? You may want to flush the radiator either way and fill it back up. Also I have seen brand new bad thermostats or thermostats installed upside down. Not that I'm questioning your intelligence, I have done it my self. In Michigan we have run 205 degree thermostats in our trucks year around. I doubt it is running to rich you would defiantly get a check engine code right away. That dex-cool stuff may have caused some corrosion somewhere in the cooling system. Also it could be a bad heater core did you check to see if you have heat in the drivers compartment?

 

[joey895]

I'm using the prestone "all makes, all models" antifreeze. I put a new radiator in it about a year ago at the same time I did the thermostat, it was running cool before and after putting in the radiator/thermostat.

I've got a 205 t-stat in my garage. When I was replacing it they had to order the 205, so I stuck the 195 in for the time being but since it didn't help at all I didn't bother replacing it with the 205 when it came in.

My heater is working good.

I've been living with the lack of heat and compensating but it sure would be nice to get 190-200 out of it.

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

do you ever loose fluid? Also where did they tee into your heat exchanger? After the thermostat?

 

[joey895]

I'm not sure where they tee into the heat exchanger, I'll have to look at that in the morning when I have more light.

Yes, I am loosing fluid. I don't have any drips on the ground and there is none getting in my oil, which is why I think it's probably an intake seeping fluid and it's getting burned off either the exhaust manifold or dripping into the heads and burning off. You think it could be sucking air making it run cooler?

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

Yeah it might be sucking air, look first at the clamps at the tee where they tapped into your system. Also sometimes they move your thermostat for modification purposes look at the clamps around the modifications and on the HX. Lastly I would say, this sounds crazy but I have seen leaky heat exchangers cause this before. You could be loosing antifreeze through your cleaning water and not even know it. I haven't used a WM pto in years but if there is a shut off valve on the HX, shut it off and drive the van that way and see if it heats up any better. If you do all that at least it would rule all that out before you get into the intake. If it where the intake it would be hard to tell. If it where just the seals or something like that you might be able to put some soap on it and look for bubbles.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Joey, does it run cool when you're not running the TM?


..L.T.A.

 

[joe harper]

Joey,

Check to see if your over flow tank for your radiator is over-full ?
If you are losing water...it could be a leak in your Heat Exchanger...
It was pretty-cold in your area this winter...If your HE froze ... It could
have cracked a coil in the H.E.

The H.E. will continue to add water to the Radiator & blow the excess
water out of the over flow tank...Thus your anti-freeze is being pushed
out your system through the over flow tank when your cleaning.....this will
not happen when the system is not engaged.

If this is not the case...RESTRICT the flow in your radiator...In my BUTLER
they removed the thermostat from the motor & moved it to the upper raditor hose.

I believe your W.M. is the same set-up...If so, Then leave your 195 therm. in the
upper hose housing..Then GUT a old thermostat & install it where the original
thermostat in the motor goes!!!!! This will restrict the water flow...Thus acting as
a PREHEATER....This will slow the flow out of the motor just enough th increase
cleaning temps 10 to 15 degrees..


ps If you experiance toooo muucchh heat !!!!!!!! Then remove the gutted themostat.

pss Watch your engine temp. closely for a few days.. if there is no substantile rise..
You will have 220 degrees at the wand. Hope this Helps>>>>>

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

Joe is right! BTW Joe nice looking rig!

 

[joe harper]

Thanks Kevin,

Check out the website....Photo section at top of page.. BETTER PHOTOS

 

[joey895]

Larry, yes it stays the same temp whether on the road or running the tm.

Kevin, thanks I will see if there is a way to shut off the hx and try that if there is to see what happens.

Joe, My overflow tank as well as radiator are loosing water.

Well I'm going to get out there this morning and remove the cowling and see if I can find any evidence of something leaking (intake or otherwise) and check out those connections and tees.

I'm hoping if I can find and solve this leak that will take care of my heating problems as well so that will be my first priority.

Once I get the van to it's normal operating temp if I still need more heat I'll put in the 205 t-stat and look at restricting the flow but I'm pretty sure if I remember right that there is already a gutted t-stat in place of the original.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll let you know if I find anything.

 

[joe harper]

Joey,

Before you do all that WORK....

Take your vac hose & suck out the water in your OVER_FLOW tank...
Fill your Radiator....Then run your untill it warms 15 mins......
If the over flow tank does over flow....THEN IT IS YOUR HEAT EXCHANGER...

To make SURE this is the PROBLEM...Start the Machine & the over flow tank
should start to FILL-UP..If it doesn't start to fill its NOT the H.E.

P.S HOOK UP YOUR WAND & KEY-IT...OFF & ON JUST LIKE YOU ARE CLEANING

 

[joey895]

Ok I found my leak or at least a leak. It appears to be coming from the water pump or possible just about the water pump it's hard to tell.

Now to decide if I want to pay $200 plus in labor for a shop to do it or do it myself. I've changed a few water pumps in my day but man it looks like it would be a pain on this van.

I realize this may not have anything to do with it running cooler but the leak needs to be fixed regardless.

 

[joe harper]

Joey,

Water pump is HUGH pita...Pay the labor & get the warranty.........

The water pump will usually let go...When your are cleaning....Then
You will crack the Head in your engine before you Know it !!!!!!!!!

Call me about your H.E ? 352-567-5855 I am in the office today...

 

[ascrubabove]

Also have them check the clutch on the cooling fan, if the fan is running constantly you will not be able to build heat!

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

Also have them check the clutch on the cooling fan, if the fan is running constantly you will not be able to build heat!

Not true! Butler vans have a fan clutch eliminator where the fan is always on and they don't have heat issues.

 

[joe harper]

Kevin is RIGHT......

If the van is loosing WATER....His van should be OVERHEATING.......

If it is the Water Pump...Hose connectons....Leaking head gasket......
or Leaking Radiator or Bad Cap....Any leak in the CLOSED SYSTEM is
going to Allow AIR into the SYSTEM.......Thus the SYSTEM cannot maintain
the proper HEAT....All AIR leaks must be SEALED in the System to MAINTAIN
consistant HEAT.....

Fix ALL leaks in the System & BLEED the Heat Exchanger of any AIR.......Then
If you don't have Heat...It is a BAD H.E. temp. sensor or a Leaking COIL in the
H.E.......

If the COIL is BAD in the H.E....When the machine is running the PUMP will
force Water into the RADIATOR thus causing the overflow tank to OVER-FLOW..


ps If the H.E. is not leaking...Try DESCALING THE H.E.

 

[joey895]

Ok I changed the water pump yesterday. Solved that leak at least.

I guess I'm going to run it a few days and see if I'm still losing water or not. If not then I'll go from there.

I drove it about an hour yesterday and didn't lose any water so maybe that was the only leak. The temp stayed the same as it's been, about 160ish.

I'll keep you guys updated, thanks.

 

[joe harper]

Thats GREAT NEWS,


Now for the lack of HEAT?????
Stupid Question... Did you possibly leave the temp. control on the AC in
the HOT position..? If NOT is the AC blowing COLD...?

If AC is cold.....Then GUT the 195 thermostat replace in housing...then
see if temp comes up on your Machine....I am also in fl. & NEVER run a
thermostat in my BUTLER units.. On the cold days, the unit is up to temp.
by the time you have driven to 1st job anyway...

GOOD LUCK... " NEXT STEP IS TO descale THE H.E."

 

[tracywalker]

I have a whitemagic 1200 I just bought used and curious if you figured your heat out? My machine was 10 years old and I replaced the thermostat and fixed a couple leaky heater hoses, and descaled. My heat seems to be good. Around 190ish. Anyway I can squeeze a few more degrees out? would a 205 thermostat do anything? It seems as if the water coming out of the engine goes through the heat exchanger before the thermostat?