WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate ??

[Leslie Judson Jones]

I feel this is an issue that needs to be addressed, seeing that most of you guys on the board own truckmounts. I started a post to help Jeff Woods sell his Thermalwave that was just out of warranty. I repaired this unit and got it running in perfect condition.

The asking price was $10,000 which was $2,000 - $4,000 under market value. John Olson claims the machine is going to depreciate at $6,000 pr year sitting in the showroom for sale with no hours being put on it. I just have a really hard time believing that anything can depreciate at that rate.

Most all truckmounts use the same parts; blower, pump, engine, etc. So most truckmounts unless they have design faults should hold their value at about the same rate.

One thing about our truckmounts that makes them hold their value is that they are all stainless steel construction, which is a bonus as far as depreciation goes. I know the new Sapphire truckmounts are all stainless steel frames which should also help those units retain their value. Is anyone else on this board seeing a depreciation on truckmounts at this astronomical rate?

 

[steve g]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

a judson vs john o thread, better grab the popcorn

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

a judson vs john o thread, better grab the popcorn

No…this is not a Judson vs Olson thread. I am just addressing what seems to be a very important issue concerning this industry if it is true.

 

[joe harper]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

Every piece of mechanical equipment BOTTOMS-OUT.....!

It will reach a point of depreciation...then it will retain a bottom price...for its function..

That price will usually be determined ...by the salvage price of its components...!

That is why "Cash for Clunkers" was such a stupid idea... :roll:

Many of these vechicals had a "functional value"...of much more than $4500.00....

Woodsey..TM does have some "proven components"...BUT there is NO warranty...!
In this economy..there are better deals to be found..! In "theory"...there is still value in
unit...Especially if you are looking for this type of machine...

But..if you are faced with a $2500.00 repair..? Then you are upside-down...
If it was my unit...I would put it back into service...! or keep as a back-up...!
It seems to be well maintained...I would run the unit..& keep the hours LOW on the
New Judson...!!!

You could put another 1000hrs on the unit & still get $6500.00 for the unit next year...!
This unit has NOT bottomed out..yet.. :wink:

 

[joe harper]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

For the record....John has made a fair offer @$6800.00..CASH..!!

If the RETAIL value of this TM is $10k...John would stand to profit only about 1.5K at best..!


Freight & Shipping Prep ...will probably..be $1200.00... :shock:
Then, I am sure he will have his men go through the unit...
I am sure some detailing is in order...plus some small parts.."fittings ect.."
Then find a buyer...&..LIVE WITH THE COMPLAINT'S...of every little thing that breaks for
the NEXT 5 YEARS... :roll:

So..it is a fair offer IMHO...Remember this is an investment for John.. :wink:
He is NOT going to go out and clean with it...!

Woodsey has stated..He wants to but another Judson...So Les could give him a 10K credit.

 

[joeynbgky]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

I would love to get a new tm every year, many guys do.. But why do people not keep them till there just dead. When there is hardly no re-sale value?

 

[rhyde]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

I have no clue what it's worth but i can say if its under market value at 10K then it should sell.
there's allot of used cleaning equipment in the market right now and not enough buyers

 

[joe harper]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

These have been for sale for over a YEAR....."with all the x-tra equipment" 05 & 08... :shock:

http://www.jondon.com/used/detail.php?siteid=556

 

[Doug Cox]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

Like Joe said- No Warranty, I for one wouldn't take a chance on a lemon just because someone said they fixed the issue without putting it back in service to make sure.

 

[John Olson]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

I feel this is an issue that needs to be addressed, seeing that most of you guys on the board own truckmounts. I started a post to help Jeff Woods sell his Thermalwave that was just out of warranty. I repaired this unit and got it running in perfect condition.

The asking price was $10,000 which was $2,000 - $4,000 under market value. John Olson claims the machine is going to depreciate at $6,000 pr year sitting in the showroom for sale with no hours being put on it. I just have a really hard time believing that anything can depreciate at that rate.

Most all truckmounts use the same parts; blower, pump, engine, etc. So most truckmounts unless they have design faults should hold their value at about the same rate.

One thing about our truckmounts that makes them hold their value is that they are all stainless steel construction, which is a bonus as far as depreciation goes. I know the new Sapphire truckmounts are all stainless steel frames which should also help those units retain their value. Is anyone else on this board seeing a depreciation on truckmounts at this astronomical rate?

Judson before attempting to put words in someones mouth you should take your foot out of yours. I never made ANY CLAIMS as to what the depreciation is on Truckmounts. I did however say what the machine was worth TO ME. See Harpers Post. He pretty much said everything but then again you should know that.

Next time use someones elses name to try to start shit

 

[Jimbo]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

Buy low





sell high...





that's how all of us stay in business!

 

[Art Kelley]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

I feel this is an issue that needs to be addressed, seeing that most of you guys on the board own truckmounts. I started a post to help Jeff Woods sell his Thermalwave that was just out of warranty. I repaired this unit and got it running in perfect condition.

Your machine will sell for the exact price it is worth. My house was worth $100000 more 3 years ago. It is what it is. Crying and screaming and whining won't help. It didn't help me.

 

[John Buxton]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

A friend of mine is trying to sell his truckmount. He had a call from a local guy that supposedly bought a 03 GM / Butler for $4,000! The dude selling it went belly up.

 

[Bob Foster]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

Lets take a moment here and not let this get out of hand but I want to stick up for my good friend Les who I have gotten to know well.

In fairness John you did say that your offer dropped $500 a month and that seems to me to pretty insulting to the owner of this truckmount in the face of demand increasing every month from now through the summer. However everyone has to make a buck.

Les has made his profit on the sale of the new Judson but its my understanding that as a courtesy to his customer he was helping him find a home for the old unit and Judson isn't actually making the sale.

I respectfully suggest you consider that the Judson family have forgotten more than 90% of the people who design, build, service and sell truckmounts know in this entire industry. They also have an unquestionable reputation for integrity earned over decades of honesty in their dealings with cleaners and distributors.

 

[Art Kelley]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

Lets take a moment here and not let this get out of hand but I want to stick up for my good friend Les who I have gotten to know well.

In fairness John you did say that your offer dropped $500 a month and that seems to me to pretty insulting to the owner of this truckmount in the face of demand increasing every month from now through the summer. However everyone has to make a buck.

Les has made his profit on the sale of the new Judson but its my understanding that as a courtesy to his customer he was helping him find a home for the old unit and Judson isn't actually making the sale.

I respectfully suggest you consider that the Judson family have forgotten more than 90% of the people who design, build, service and sell truckmounts know in this entire industry. They also have an unquestionable reputation for integrity earned over decades of honesty in their dealings with cleaners and distributors.

The machine is on the open market. John made his offer. There is 6.5 billion other people who can make an offer. With all due respect to the Judson family and all they have done for the industry, if this is the best offer they get, what are we supposed to do? A telethon?

 

[Bob Foster]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

No that isn't what I am suggesting. A known dealer has made a remark about the unit that is well below the wholesale value of the unit. Because of this people somehow perceive that is the market value or close to market value of this unit. This isn't the case in spite of what people might say about all the stuff floating around for sale out there. Please someone show me one for sale like this anywhere near this price.

It might have been more tactful for John to put his wholesale starting offer to Les in private, dealer to dealer so to speak. What John may have inadvertently done was a disservice to all dealers in this industry who are trying to make a profit let alone survive these times.

 

[Jimmy L]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

.

 

[hogjowl]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

Let me summarize this thread for all who are reading and then I want to give my opinion on the topic.:

To review- Les has his feelings hurt.
Olsen is an asshole
and ... Foster talks too much, and just to hear himself.

Now, listen up. The only reason why TM's MAY be "depreciating" more now than in the past is because it is a buyers market right now. Any broke dick cleaner who can actually get a loan will have TM sellers scrambling to get to them first.

 

[randy]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

I have seen rapid depreciation in truck mounts & all the industry related equipment we use at astounding rates. At auction the used truck mount that Judson is selling might go for $2,500 with the right buyer it might go for 5-6k. Does used equipment sell for what it was 2-3 years ago ? No way, in most cases equipment is selling at about 30-45% of "true" value.

Construction equipment, loose diamonds, RVs , boats, and vacation cabins are going for even less. Recently I purchased $40,000 worth of restaurant equipment for $7100 cash. A year ago I purchased a $9,000 pizza oven for $600. I had a $290 repair bill on it but the oven is now leased for $250 per month. We had to have it moved but that took a phone call , and the equipment is only 6-14 months old. Its not just the cleaning industry there are great deals out there in every industry.
Lot's of businesses in every industry folding up and in bankruptcy court. Trusties are looking to close cases and liquidate the assets, that means lots of fire sale prices.

Spring will have lots of great deals on truck mounts as many cleaners will not make it through this long, cold winter. It will take 2-3 years for the used equipment market to thin out and that will kill off a bunch of distributors and even a few manufacturers.

When it all shakes out this industry's standard truck mount class wise will be the Prochem legend types. Guys will try to keep their investment around $20,000 or so and you will see the price of low mileage used vans skyrocket as many buy quality used vans to lower the cost of putting a rig on the road, and not just in our industry.

This recession will change this and all industries, and for years to come.

 

[Doug Cox]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

It was listed for 10g before, its listed for 10g now and it hasn't sold. You'll know the value when it sells and not until. Once again, I would have a problem buying a machine with a known problem that someone says is fixed, without a warranty or a lengthy test period to know that it is indeed fixed.

 

[Able 1]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

With all this talk... I think I'm going to my local disty, he has a Thermal Wave that been sitting around for 5 years with 20 hours on it. Think I could get it for $14,000? Worth a shot! :wink:

 

[John Olson]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

With all this talk... I think I'm going to my local disty, he has a Thermal Wave that been sitting around for 5 years with 20 hours on it. Think I could get it for $14,000? Worth a shot! :wink:

5 years? If you offer 16000 he would jump on it or he should

 

[Able 1]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

He probably would... I just don't like to buy things that have sit that long. Would there be any concerns about seals dry rotting and such? I really don't think they have ran it in a while..

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

Keep Randy's post around and look at it again this summer. I saw this happen in the early 80's, and it looks like it might be even more severe in the year to come.

 

[jimn]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

Cant we all get along?

You are arguing about something that is not important.

The resale value depends on the units condition and how well it was maintained. Any qualified distributor can see this. If a machine is clean and has a good service record, it may have a good resale value. If the machine was NOT maintained, and has only 20 hours on it yet looks like it has been through a war then the resale value is lower. It really does not matter if the unit was sitting for 5 years or not. Lets face it, if the unit was sitting for that long it MAY have a few gasket issues but it would be apparent when the unit is thoroughly tested right?

A vac blower either works or it does not? An engine runs well or it does not? The water pressure system and heat exchanger work or not?

If all of the above are functioning properly, there is no way anyone can forsee what MAY happen in the future. That is what anyone who gets a used machine expects providing there are no promises made up front. If the selling party decides to waranty a used unit for a specific time period then they are confident in making sure that the service department performed what they were supposed to do properly correct?

I am only responding to this because we were recently "exposed" to a situation like this. Someone traded in a Genesis 56 Ford unit which they stated was in good working order when in reality it was a nightmare. It simply was not taken care of properly. There was a green "goo" within the system that he did not tell us about which clogged the entire water system and the machine was an absolute mess. It looked like wax when it was finally removed.

I honestly have not seen "rapid" depreciation with used equipment. If it is tested and reconditioned properly it has a fair market value.

It all depends on the actual working condition of the unit and how well it was maintained.

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

These have been for sale for over a YEAR....."with all the x-tra equipment" 05 & 08... :shock:

http://www.jondon.com/used/detail.php?siteid=556

Joe, Thanks for posting this link to Jon Don advertising their Thermalwaves. When they were for sale one year ago, were the units $6,000 more each? Going off of what the asking price is on these units, of $20,000 each, and then subtracting the accessories so that we are comparing apples to apples, I would subtract $2500 for the used electric reel and used water pond. I would subtract $400 for the used vacuum hose and then subtract $400 for the used wand, for an altogether total of $3200.

Subtract that off the $20,000 and then we will be comparing apples to apples. That would put a value of $16,800 on the unit. And now we need to adjust for the additional 1,000 hours on Jeff’s Thermalwave. So now let’s subtract another $1800 for the hours on the machine. This seems to be a very fair allowance for the hours.

So basically, that leaves the comparable unit with the recovery tank and inline filter at $15,000. We don’t know the maintenance that was performed on the Jon Don machines, but Jeff Woods machine has had meticulous maintenance performed on it. If the condition of this machine was in question I would not be trying to represent it.

 

[joe harper]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

Keep Randy's post around and look at it again this summer. I saw this happen in the early 80's, and it looks like it might be even more severe in the year to come.

Randy is spot on....!

I was on the golf course today...A good freind of mine is in the Golf course equipment
business...he is EXTREEMLY strong in the finaince dept..."CASH PHAT"...

He was looking for 5 warm bodies ASAP...! His company is 90 days behind in shipping...!
Jim, purchases ALL of the "leased" golf course equipment in the Southern United States.

This equipment is very simular to OUR industry..as in it is a speciality ITEM...many of the
componients are the same..! He told me that he has been buying @ 20 to 30 cents on the
dollar for the last 8 months... :shock:

75% of his sales are overseas...& he requires a 50% CASH deposit...!!! He also will purchase
an existing LEASE from the lease company..."When a course is behind in their payments"..
Jim said that he has purchased the bad note @ 30 cent on the dollar...Then go in and
re-negotiate the terms with the course...&... Never even pick-up the equipment... :wink:

Toro,John Deere,Jacobson,ect...are ALL getting OUT of the LEASING BIZ...!!!!! Many HIGH
END courses are NOW ...buying RE-FURBISHED equipment...! Jim, said he makes all of his
when he..BUY'S the equipment...not when he SALES it.. :wink: "Cash is King"....

 

[Charlie Lyman]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

What kind of dog is that Les?

 

[Leslie Judson Jones]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

For the record....John has made a fair offer @$6800.00..CASH..!!

If the RETAIL value of this TM is $10k...John would stand to profit only about 1.5K at best..!


Freight & Shipping Prep ...will probably..be $1200.00... :shock:
Then, I am sure he will have his men go through the unit...
I am sure some detailing is in order...plus some small parts.."fittings ect.."
Then find a buyer...&..LIVE WITH THE COMPLAINT'S...of every little thing that breaks for
the NEXT 5 YEARS... :roll:

So..it is a fair offer IMHO...Remember this is an investment for John.. :wink:
He is NOT going to go out and clean with it...!



Woodsey has stated..He wants to but another Judson...So Les could give him a 10K credit.

Joe, I don’t have a problem with people making an offer on a unit. We do that every day. Just the other day I was looking at buying a motorcycle from a guy for $15,000. I offered him $10,000 for it. What I am concerned about is the statement from John Olson that says the unit will be worth $500 pr month less which would be $6,000 at the end of a year. John is an authority on Blueline Thermalwaves, and seeing that he is an authority on them, I figured that his statement meant something.

 

[joe harper]

Re: WARNING! Truckmounts Depreciating at an ALARMING Rate !!

These have been for sale for over a YEAR....."with all the x-tra equipment" 05 & 08... :shock:

http://www.jondon.com/used/detail.php?siteid=556

Joe, Thanks for posting this link to Jon Don advertising their Thermalwaves. When they were for sale one year ago, were the units $6,000 more each? Going off of what the asking price is on these units, of $20,000 each, and then subtracting the accessories so that we are comparing apples to apples, I would subtract $2500 for the used electric reel and used water pond. I would subtract $400 for the used vacuum hose and then subtract $400 for the used wand, for an altogether total of $3200.

Subtract that off the $20,000 and then we will be comparing apples to apples. That would put a value of $16,800 on the unit. And now we need to adjust for the additional 1,000 hours on Jeff’s Thermalwave. So now let’s subtract another $1800 for the hours on the machine. This seems to be a very fair allowance for the hours.

So basically, that leaves the comparable unit with the recovery tank and inline filter at $15,000. We don’t know the maintenance that was performed on the Jon Don machines, but Jeff Woods machine has had meticulous maintenance performed on it. If the condition of this machine was in question I would not be trying to represent it.

Les,
My point was NOT the price of the "apples".... My point was they have NOT sold... :wink:

ps.I believe that JD..adds 20% also... :!: