waves/ripples in carpet after HWE?

[Contemporary Carpet Clean]

cleaned a house yesterday and half of the carpet was a low pile (almost like a low pile plush commercial grade carpet) that was about 22 years old. Then in the liv and din rms there was a really thick also 22 year old 100% plush nylon carpet. After cleaning all the carpet while doing the final walk through with the custy the low pile carpet had numerous waves/bumps in it. Ive had this happen a few handful of times on this exact carpet before. I used HWE with water temps of 200-210 degrees and about 500 psi and double vacd. The custys were elderly so i wanted to make sure the carpet dryed asap! My experience has ALWAYS BEEN THAT THE BUMPS/WAVES GO AWAY UPON DRYING. Ive never had to call a guy in to restretch the carpet ever on either commercial or residential jobs (and ive had it happen on comm jobs before too). The thicker 100% nylon carpet in the liv and din room DID NOT WAVE/BUBBLE AT ALL AND I CLEANED IT THE SAME WAY I DID THE LOW PILE CARPET. My question is why does this happen? and how do i explain it other than this happens on this type of carpet and it will go away when it fully dries? Is there anything i can do to prevent this from happening in the future?

Ive noticed that this happens MOSTLY on older (seems like 20 yrs or older) carpets rather than newer carpets is there a difference in the fibers/backings/padding from 20 yrs ago to todays products?

Also custy has used Chem Dry before and never had the wave/bump effect on the carpet when they were done. So i have to say its either from higher heat and or higher pressure or a combination of both. Thank you for any feedback and or similar experiences.

 

[XTREME1]

humidity

this will make a carpet loosen and when it dries it retracts

 

[Brian R]

I've heard a bad install or an old install is one reason why.

I've only had maybe one time where 1 or 2 bumps didn't go away in a commercial carpet.

I've had entire houses (same type throughout) bubble up but then go back down.

Funny to watch the look on the homeowners face when it happens then you tell them "No really, happens all the time and it will go back to normal." They usually think I am FOS.

I'm sure a carpet guru will know more than I.
Where's BaWb? :wink:

 

[John Watson]

Carpets not properly installed or lose tend to buckle after cleaning or addition of moisture. The back relaxes. I have seen ripples appear even after Dry powders were used to clean. Not all carpets are created equally..

 

[XTREME1]

it is an old carpet that will give even properly installed. In the northeast this is common especially in long hallways that are shut off with doors and lock in humidity.

This is one of the reason you don't install cold carpet cold dry carpet is tight and will relax when it warms add humity and bang you have a floater but after 20 yrs it gives and humity will ruffle the carpet. The basic install classes discuss all of this. I wouldn't blame an installer 20 yrs later

 

[Desk Jockey]

xactly, if it's not tight, carpet fibers, push against each other when wet (damp), since the up is the area of least resistance they create waves. As the fibers dry they are no longer crunched for space and they settle down.

Probably not power stretched when installed.

 

[Brian R]

Hey Greg, I think that's the same reason you leave wood floors in the home at least 24 hours before you install them to let them get acclimated to the indoor environment.

 

[Mark Imbesi]

....

 

[Desk Jockey]

Marc see you just wasted 17 years when you could have just asked Greg!

 

[XTREME1]

I didn't realize I was wrong please give your expert opinion

 

[harryhides]

Older carpets have had more time to flex and "grow" over time.
Older carpets ( like over 20 yrs likely have jute backing ) and will absorb tons of water and shrink.
More so if stretched over a pad that is too thick. Over time that pad will become thinner so that carpet has less distance to cover and so waves will appear. Same thing with fabric stretched over a compressed foam cushion will start to show waves.

Some carpets with poor latex ( and you will see tons of white powder under the carpet ) can be power stretched repeatedly and just keep growing.

Too much pressure means your rinse water will get to the backing causing it to grow.
Leaving your pre-spray down too long will also result in liquid getting to the backing and cause it to grow.
Obviously there is less distance between surface and backing on short piled carpet than thicker types.

On woven carpet, over-wetting will cause DRAMATIC shrinkage and rip it off the tackless strip.

I have on a few occasions had rippled carpets that did NOT go back to pre-cleaning condition and some were because of uneven stretching or heavy furniture that prevented the carpet from returning to it's original condition.

 

[harryhides]

This is one of the reason you don't install cold carpet cold dry carpet is tight and will relax when it warms add humity and bang you have a floater but after 20 yrs it gives and humity will ruffle the carpet. The basic install classes discuss all of this. I wouldn't blame an installer 20 yrs later

Listen to Marc, Crowley could learn plenty from Marc.

Basically poor Installers and manufacturers lay down the root causes and poor cleaning Techs or unmaintained equip finish the job.

 

[bob vawter]

Where's BaWb?

i landed a big bank with lotsa branches...
THE VERY FIRST job raised up SIX INCHES by the time we was finished...... and i thought the super was gonna shit!
I TRIED and TRIED to tell him that it would go back down by morning......but he fReAkEd out...big time and i lost the account right there....

next morning i went to check on the job....it laid back down and was beautiful.....

 

[XTREME1]

sorry for typing fast Mr English teacher. If you looked at earlier posts I spelled it correctly. I am working phones and don't have time for childish spellcheckers like yourself. If my advice was bad you retyping MY ADVICE is worse. It seems you just want to try and have a longer post. Where is Marty when you need him?

I wouldn't listen to a guy who has been in business for 17 yrs and still lives with his Mother ever in life.

r]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQ-0XsanmJEr]

 

[colin fitch]

There are competing theories but I think the most credible to be that it is caused by the swelling of the latex compound (or more precisely, the 'filler' material therein) when damp.

When the moisture level returns to normal, so the carpet resumes its normal dimensions

colin.

 

[Ron Werner]

I explain to them about the latex that holds the carpet together and that its sandwiched between the primary and secondary backings, that as I cleaned the latex absorbed moisture and has expanded causing the buckles. When the moisture has dried from the latex the carpet will lay flat again.
When I explain it this way my client is ok.



Colin posted just before I could hit submit. What he said.

 

[harryhides]

sorry for typing fast Mr English teacher. If you looked at earlier posts I spelled it correctly. I am working phones and don't have time for childish spellcheckers like yourself. If my advice was bad you retyping MY ADVICE is worse. It seems you just want to try and have a longer post. Where is Marty when you need him?

I wouldn't listen to a guy who has been in business for 17 yrs and still lives with his Mother ever in life.

You two need to get a sense of humor, Greg - a little touchy, imo.

Nothing wrong with your info, btw.

 

[XTREME1]

I forgot the smiley face. Thanks for again pointing that out. Where is Marty to put you in your place

 

[Contemporary Carpet Clean]

thank you for all of your comments and explanations! I am going back to the custys house on monday...i did the job on friday....so it should be all set by then i hope!

 

[ruff]

I forgot the smiley face. Thanks for again pointing that out. Where is Marty to put you in your place

Does the word ICS ring a bell?!

http://www.i-boards.com/ics/

Or lurking here.

I am sure he is going to make a sound.

Marty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Cousin]

Hi all, scuse me sticking my head in, just noticed this post.

In Oz, we sometimes come across this 'rucking' in the carpet after cleaning.

In just about every case the secondary backing is polyprop, or Action Back.

Sure sometimes the carpet is loose, but often they don't go down the next day. The action backs always do.

And now we are seeing a lot more different styles of poly secondaries, but they mostly don't seem to suffer the rucking action backs did.


M

 

[Contemporary Carpet Clean]

went back to job to inspect this evening and as i suspected no more ripples....the custy said that i was right.....i said i told you it would lay back down. Then they wouldnt let me leave without vacuuming the carpet with their oreck (elderly couple that its hard for them to vac all their carpet)......30 bucks in 25 minutes! not a bad FREE return visit....thanks again for everyones feedback!!!