WDR and refusal of recommendations

[Desk Jockey]

We had a busy Sunday/Monday early from all the cold weather we've had lately. Of the jobs they processed two were commercial businesses.

One of them a hotel and the other a retirement home, both have had several previous losses over the years. At the hotel 2-floors were wet, we removed ceiling and drywall dried the carpet but now day 2 they want all the equipment out, dried or not.

At the retirement home three floors were affected, walls ceilings and floors. They're not about to let us cut things out there but they also won't let us dry completely either.

Both of these businesses are far too concerned about getting back to normal than to allow complete drying. It's there property and we can't be the mold police but there is extreme liability in leaving a building or home with areas of moisture.

What can you do? We document, get their name- are they in a position to make the call. If not find out who is and speak with them. Preferably by email (a paper trail), shoot thermals for the file, get it in the file what is wet, get a signed refusal of recommendations, leave them a mold pamphlet not as a scare tactic but to do your due diligence. http://www.epa.gov/mold/pdfs/moldguide.pdf

Fortunately most of the time it's not a problem but you never know when an old job could come back to bite you. Document like you're going use it to defend yourself in court. You never know when you will need it!

 

[Steve Toburen]

We had a busy Sunday/Monday early from all the cold weather we've had lately... most of the time it's not a problem but you never know when an old job could come back to bite you. Document like you're going use it to defend yourself in court. You never know when you will need it!

Well said, Richard!

Steve

PS Of course, you boys have the resources to handle almost all the W/D jobs that come in. But many cleaners have to pick and choose when a major cold snap comes in. So why not avoid the ones that won't come back and bite you? We just sent out this week's QuickTIP on this exact topic! (How to "perform water loss triage" over the phone.)

 

[Desk Jockey]

-18 degrees......how warm is it where you're at now?

I think your old home wants to be with you in the Dominican.

 

[dealtimeman]

Not to be technical but what is a refual of recommendations?

Never heard of that before.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I refuse to answer that!

Hey how do you like our new water commercial?

https://soundcloud.com/user225188288/chavez-frozen-pipes-30

 

[Greg Cole]

Sounds like you might want to invest in a TES or some other heated drying system.

We had a busy Sunday/Monday early from all the cold weather we've had lately. Of the jobs they processed two were commercial businesses.

One of them a hotel and the other a retirement home, both have had several previous losses over the years. At the hotel 2-floors were wet, we removed ceiling and drywall dried the carpet but now day 2 they want all the equipment out, dried or not.

At the retirement home three floors were affected, walls ceilings and floors. They're not about to let us cut things out there but they also won't let us dry completely either.

Both of these businesses are far too concerned about getting back to normal than to allow complete drying. It's there property and we can't be the mold police but there is extreme liability in leaving a building or home with areas of moisture.

What can you do? We document, get their name- are they in a position to make the call. If not find out who is and speak with them. Preferably by email (a paper trail), shoot thermals for the file, get it in the file what is wet, get a signed refusal of recommendations, leave them a mold pamphlet not as a scare tactic but to do your due diligence. http://www.epa.gov/mold/pdfs/moldguide.pdf

Fortunately most of the time it's not a problem but you never know when an old job could come back to bite you. Document like you're going use it to defend yourself in court. You never know when you will need it!

 

[Desk Jockey]

I thought you didn't like your E-TES?

We have them, we also have a TES trailer.

The situation is occupied and in use, just not conducive to sectioning off and heating up. While the speed would definitely help, the heat would probably kill a few people.

The national management happened to be onsite at the retirement home to see the break and distruction. They we're blown away at the difference a day made. Although they still had us pull equipment from the main floor and common areas they want us to complete the drying in a few of the occupants rooms.

The hotel owner had us pull it all with 1-days drying, he had to keep it open even missing some ceiling and section of walls.

 

[Mark Saiger]

This whole conversation was just another thing that bothered me in the flood and fire part of the biz.

Just too many experts sitting on the sidelines calling the shots and when a problem occurs later, you will still get blamed. No matter how well you document and can defend yourself, lawyers cost money and lawsuits cost time and....MONEY!

 

[Desk Jockey]

I agree, everyone thinks they know better or they try to save money on the wrong end. Then when it all blows up on them they look for a scapegoat.

 

[dealtimeman]

Dang mark, look forward to hearing about the drama going on in your region right now regarding water damage. Maybe we can add mark to our discussion Richard?

 

[Mark Saiger]

I have a potential good buyer making an offer tomorrow for my remaining equipment. Items could go fast !

I turned down a smoke damage yesterday and a water job after I found out who the insurance company was. Just finished a small water yesterday and just being picky who I do work for. After selling all restoration equipment I am just buying a couple specialty dehus and laying low. Only gonna do cat 1 jobs and when I feel like it. Not going to deal with insurance companies in this or other areas anymore. Homeowners can pay the bill and submit it.

Was at a large carpet and upholstery job today and on the same property was the green vans doing a smoke damage In a small shop for the parents that i turned down 3 weeks ago. Me and my crew would have had the job done in 3 days.

Family still loves my work and understand my reasons for getting out of the restoration game in the area and will use me for everything else...oh...and I got paid today!

Mark

 

[Desk Jockey]

I completely understand your decision and believe me there are days that I feel just as frustrated. However for the most part the good out weight the bad and I still prefer WDR work to anything else.

 

[Desk Jockey]

We pulled all the equipment at both of those jobs this AM. The manager at the retirement home and the owner at the hotel signed off and were give the mold brochure as well as a walk though with a thermal camera.

At the retirement home, a couple of rooms on three floors have ceilings and walls wet. The humidity is high still and there some wet contents but the manager is willing to ride this one out knowing the risks. The drywall should have been removed or dried but as long as we cover our exposure then we've done all we can do.

 

[Greg Cole]

Yes I hate my etes. Takes up space in warehouse but was free..... However, sometimes heated drying is the only option. I just bought a water out trailer yesterday for the random occasion that we might need it.


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[Greg Cole]

I thought you didn't like your E-TES?

We have them, we also have a TES trailer.

The situation is occupied and in use, just not conducive to sectioning off and heating up. While the speed would definitely help, the heat would probably kill a few people.

The national management happened to be onsite at the retirement home to see the break and distruction. They we're blown away at the difference a day made. Although they still had us pull equipment from the main floor and common areas they want us to complete the drying in a few of the occupants rooms.

The hotel owner had us pull it all with 1-days drying, he had to keep it open even missing some ceiling and section of walls.

Killing a few people isn't allowed? Well damn, we've been going about drying all wrong!!! Lol


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[Desk Jockey]

Shhh you can do it......just down leave a trail!

 

[Desk Jockey]

Yes I hate my etes. Takes up space in warehouse but was free..... However, sometimes heated drying is the only option. I just bought a water out trailer yesterday for the random occasion that we might need it.


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Back in the day we looked seriously at one. Looked like the goods but Charlie was so off the wall it kept us at bay. Smart guy just nutz!

We also like the Dryvex but in the end didn't buy either. Probably a good thing we don't do many large commercial jobs and the TES trailer can handle homes but every since the ETES we don't even use the trailer much anymore.

 

[amygeorge]

I have an etes - only use it on a rare occasion (90% of our jobs are owner occupied). However, I’m going to Reets Drying Academy and have a feeling I’m about to get schooled….

 

[Desk Jockey]

I'm sure you'll be glad you went.

Jeremy a great trainer, everyone I've sent loved the class.

Good luck!

 

[SMRBAP]

Doc, at the rate we find pre-existing mold - and at the rate people refuse services, I put a few things into play within our contracts.

Mold claims waiver - they agree to hold harmless against mold without limitation, unless they agree to have an AQ test performed within 24 hours of work commencing to show no pre-existing issues. To retain rights, they must have the test to show clearance.

Refusal of recommendations - if any single recommendation is refused, all rights waived hold harmless is effected.

Both are automatic defaults via wording in the contract. I did have an attorney kick us out of his house a while back - hopefully that was an indication the contracts are pretty airtight.....lol.

 

[Desk Jockey]

LOL Must be from that reaction!

 

[Ryan Allen]

Well that is why we have "Limitation of Liability" forms. It basically states that when we are denied the ability to work to our industry standard, as dictated by the S-500 and the S-520, that we are no longer going to be held liable for the results on the job. It's either going to be done properly, or we are not going to take responsibility for how it is going to be done. We have met with some pretty strange and down-right misguided requests from customers, despite our best efforts at informing them of the risks. Sometimes, that's all you can do. You don't have to walk away from every job that won't let you do what you know is best. Just make sure that, ultimately, you are not responsible for the results of other people's decisions by transferring the liability where it belongs. If the other party refuses to sign, state as much on the form, sign it yourself, and walk away.

 

[AJR]

Doc, at the rate we find pre-existing mold - and at the rate people refuse services, I put a few things into play within our contracts.

Mold claims waiver - they agree to hold harmless against mold without limitation, unless they agree to have an AQ test performed within 24 hours of work commencing to show no pre-existing issues. To retain rights, they must have the test to show clearance.

Refusal of recommendations - if any single recommendation is refused, all rights waived hold harmless is effected.

Both are automatic defaults via wording in the contract. I did have an attorney kick us out of his house a while back - hopefully that was an indication the contracts are pretty airtight.....lol.

awesome how about posting a copy.

 

[amygeorge]

Just had one of these yesterday. Adjuster shows up and asks the homeowner’s daughter \ caregiver why you didn’t you let Amy do her job? it wouldn’t stink in here if she had and it would be dry and ready for your contractor and we would have paid for it…

I might have a crush on this new to me adjuster… 2nd claim with him.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I might have a crush on this new to me adjuster… 2nd claim with him.

LOL

 

[dealtimeman]

Just had one of these yesterday. Adjuster shows up and asks the homeowner’s daughter \ caregiver why you didn’t you let Amy do her job? it wouldn’t stink in here if she had and it would be dry and ready for your contractor and we would have paid for it…

I might have a crush on this new to me adjuster… 2nd claim with him.

Amy you are married! Stop flirting with this adjuster!

Btw was in Vernon twice last week!

 

[amygeorge]

Hey, if you’ll drive here to work can I get you to go to Paducah for me tomorrow? Basement flooded… I have to be in Fort Worth for a benefit this weekend.

 

[dealtimeman]

oh yeah, i dont know what type of drought you said yall were in,because when i passed through town you had a couple of inched of precip just sitting everywhere. and i mean everywhere - it was like a blizzard!
you can have that basement done by lunch and be over here by sundown, have you soldiers(machines) work all weekend and pick them up on monday!

how many water jobs for 2104 is that already?

you trying to set yourself a record or what?

 

[amygeorge]

we had 10” of snow then another 2”… yes, we’re in stage 4 - very serious. I’m gonna send a tech over that isn’t certified and I’ll walk him through it and FaceTime with him. I’ll check it on Monday when I get back.

 

[MyfriendscallmeJim]

Doc, at the rate we find pre-existing mold - and at the rate people refuse services, I put a few things into play within our contracts.

Mold claims waiver - they agree to hold harmless against mold without limitation, unless they agree to have an AQ test performed within 24 hours of work commencing to show no pre-existing issues. To retain rights, they must have the test to show clearance.

Refusal of recommendations - if any single recommendation is refused, all rights waived hold harmless is effected.

Both are automatic defaults via wording in the contract. I did have an attorney kick us out of his house a while back - hopefully that was an indication the contracts are pretty airtight.....lol.

Might I call your office and get copies of those aforementioned forms for use in my business?