Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of today!
- Thread starter Bob Foster
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Bob Foster
Member
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2006
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Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
Yup I did. Greg I'm sorry for my condescending remark. It came from my feelings of optimism and frustration at the same time for what is going on. Regardless what a pile of crap the IICRC turned into its worth attempting to salvage. I was one of those who made the effort to submit some nominations.
A lot of people don't know about how the board is controlled. And you know what? A hell of a lot more don't give a shit because they long since turned their backs on the IICRC. It was thanks for the courses but the rest is a waste of money. Because they got squat back for their annual vig to the big Green Machime.
After looking at the name and considerting things, I really think it will be a disaster to use it and I pick up that this seems to be the consensus based on the limited information we have of why it was being done in the first place.
The willingness of the new board to ditch the hoaky new name is a big litmus test for me.
Yup I did. Greg I'm sorry for my condescending remark. It came from my feelings of optimism and frustration at the same time for what is going on. Regardless what a pile of crap the IICRC turned into its worth attempting to salvage. I was one of those who made the effort to submit some nominations.
A lot of people don't know about how the board is controlled. And you know what? A hell of a lot more don't give a shit because they long since turned their backs on the IICRC. It was thanks for the courses but the rest is a waste of money. Because they got squat back for their annual vig to the big Green Machime.
After looking at the name and considerting things, I really think it will be a disaster to use it and I pick up that this seems to be the consensus based on the limited information we have of why it was being done in the first place.
The willingness of the new board to ditch the hoaky new name is a big litmus test for me.
Hoody
Supportive Member
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
I just don't get why they even have a big PR firm in the first place. The board members(IMO) should be people that are extremely familiar with the industry, that have(have had) successful businesses, and want to change the industry for the better. I understand it is much harder than what it sounds, but its my opinion a group of business minded people should be able to market the group to all parties concerned. I only hope they can find ways to improve education as it will better everyone involved(Their reputation, the cleaners, and our consumers). As a cleaner that is what I'm looking for, and I don't have a problem spending money on good education and classes.
I just don't get why they even have a big PR firm in the first place. The board members(IMO) should be people that are extremely familiar with the industry, that have(have had) successful businesses, and want to change the industry for the better. I understand it is much harder than what it sounds, but its my opinion a group of business minded people should be able to market the group to all parties concerned. I only hope they can find ways to improve education as it will better everyone involved(Their reputation, the cleaners, and our consumers). As a cleaner that is what I'm looking for, and I don't have a problem spending money on good education and classes.
LisaWagnerCRS
Member
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
The reason they have a PR firm is because for the past decade the Marketing Director of their committee has been for years a woman who did not know anything about building up market presence, and then her replacement (because she could not receive two honorariums for two board positions) - and he was even worse.
So... you get a PR firm when you have no clue about how to grow a business.
I remember in my very first board meeting asking how they track the performance of their ads and articles, and got these vague answers. I made a suggestion to have TRACKABLE phone numbers so you could track exactly what worked and what didn't... and it fell flat. It was almost as if they had no desire to know if their marketing dollars (more than 100K a year when I was there - probably much more now with the PR firm included...) even made them any money back.
In DC you have this crappy economy coming from people in charge who could not operate a hot dog stand profitably, much less the government.
Same with IICRC - if you want to grow a business, you need people involved who actually can grow a successful one on their own. If not, you have struggling volunteers who are split between trying to stay afloat personally, and also try to grow a multi-million dollar entity... and you can't grow or operate a million-dollar biz with $50K skills.
There are a number of solid business operators on the new board - that's why I'm optimistic.
Lisa
P.S. But I'm with Bob... if they don't address and FIX the name fiasco rather soon, I'm gone for good. For what that's worth. =)
Hoody said:
The reason they have a PR firm is because for the past decade the Marketing Director of their committee has been for years a woman who did not know anything about building up market presence, and then her replacement (because she could not receive two honorariums for two board positions) - and he was even worse.
So... you get a PR firm when you have no clue about how to grow a business.
I remember in my very first board meeting asking how they track the performance of their ads and articles, and got these vague answers. I made a suggestion to have TRACKABLE phone numbers so you could track exactly what worked and what didn't... and it fell flat. It was almost as if they had no desire to know if their marketing dollars (more than 100K a year when I was there - probably much more now with the PR firm included...) even made them any money back.
In DC you have this crappy economy coming from people in charge who could not operate a hot dog stand profitably, much less the government.
Same with IICRC - if you want to grow a business, you need people involved who actually can grow a successful one on their own. If not, you have struggling volunteers who are split between trying to stay afloat personally, and also try to grow a multi-million dollar entity... and you can't grow or operate a million-dollar biz with $50K skills.
There are a number of solid business operators on the new board - that's why I'm optimistic.
Lisa
P.S. But I'm with Bob... if they don't address and FIX the name fiasco rather soon, I'm gone for good. For what that's worth. =)
Hoody
Supportive Member
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
That is the only thing I'm optimistic about at this point too. I saw the list of board members and their respective companies, the list is impressive.
LisaWagnerCRS said:
That is the only thing I'm optimistic about at this point too. I saw the list of board members and their respective companies, the list is impressive.
The Great Oz
Member
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
HMMM, The number one gripe cleaners had with the IICRC was that they didn't listen to complaints. The number two gripe was that no customer had a clue what they IICRC was. So they finally address the two biggest gripes by listening and trying to do something about their low profile, and they get kicked around for it. Now you know why the old guard ignored complaints.
The new guard might listen to concerns about the IICRC name, but now I'm convinced the name change needs to stay - as a break from the old way of doing things. Think the name has to say resorationinspectionscertificationwoodtileandgroutstoneinstallationcertification? Get over it.
Many of the things Lisa remembers, and what kept many good people from working with the organization, is in the past. The days of asking an IICRC Board member a question and having him turn his back to you are over. You're going to see a who's who of respected industry people coming in to work with the organization now that it will be run in a more straightforward manner.
If you're interested in griping about a group that needs a good scrubbing, try Connections.
HMMM, The number one gripe cleaners had with the IICRC was that they didn't listen to complaints. The number two gripe was that no customer had a clue what they IICRC was. So they finally address the two biggest gripes by listening and trying to do something about their low profile, and they get kicked around for it. Now you know why the old guard ignored complaints.
The new guard might listen to concerns about the IICRC name, but now I'm convinced the name change needs to stay - as a break from the old way of doing things. Think the name has to say resorationinspectionscertificationwoodtileandgroutstoneinstallationcertification? Get over it.
Many of the things Lisa remembers, and what kept many good people from working with the organization, is in the past. The days of asking an IICRC Board member a question and having him turn his back to you are over. You're going to see a who's who of respected industry people coming in to work with the organization now that it will be run in a more straightforward manner.
If you're interested in griping about a group that needs a good scrubbing, try Connections.
LisaWagnerCRS
Member
Actually, the number one complaint has been that they spend money like it's other people's money, which it is!
They have always been irresponsible with their contracts and showing any inkling of having a fiduciary responsibility to save or make wise decisions. A 5 year multi-year management contract with no competing bids being just one of a long list of examples.
The complaint about no market visibility, at least by those who understand how to grow businesses from the ground up has been due to them spending hundreds of thousands aimlessly, and having no trackable ROI.
They have been crappy marketers spending way too much... and that has nothing to do with the name. Nothing at all.
Their decision leads to more costs to the IICRC, to their PR firm and management for trying to handle the friction, and to changing everything from materials to marketing supplies.
But even worse is the punitive costs to the already paying registrants, who ARE their customers.
Just on that point alone, this should be changed to at the very least keeping IICRC professionally and making the dumb name Clean Trust for yet more poor marketing efforts.
I disagree that this is just another gripe. This IS costly.
They should work on learning to market better, or offer to pay for everyone's costs. If they can pay a million a year to management, they can sink several hundred thousand to pay back uniform changes, van signage changed, website changes, and marketing material changes.
That would be fair.
IICRC has pissed away many millions over the years, Connections has wasted much less than that. Both need cleaning up, but not on the backs of the cleaners.
Lisa
They have always been irresponsible with their contracts and showing any inkling of having a fiduciary responsibility to save or make wise decisions. A 5 year multi-year management contract with no competing bids being just one of a long list of examples.
The complaint about no market visibility, at least by those who understand how to grow businesses from the ground up has been due to them spending hundreds of thousands aimlessly, and having no trackable ROI.
They have been crappy marketers spending way too much... and that has nothing to do with the name. Nothing at all.
Their decision leads to more costs to the IICRC, to their PR firm and management for trying to handle the friction, and to changing everything from materials to marketing supplies.
But even worse is the punitive costs to the already paying registrants, who ARE their customers.
Just on that point alone, this should be changed to at the very least keeping IICRC professionally and making the dumb name Clean Trust for yet more poor marketing efforts.
I disagree that this is just another gripe. This IS costly.
They should work on learning to market better, or offer to pay for everyone's costs. If they can pay a million a year to management, they can sink several hundred thousand to pay back uniform changes, van signage changed, website changes, and marketing material changes.
That would be fair.
IICRC has pissed away many millions over the years, Connections has wasted much less than that. Both need cleaning up, but not on the backs of the cleaners.
Lisa
harryhides
Member
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
Lisa, both names can be used for up to five years.
Certified Firms will get their new and slightly larger ( so they can go over the old ones ) decals and badges for free.
What other costs are you talking about ?
Lisa, both names can be used for up to five years.
Certified Firms will get their new and slightly larger ( so they can go over the old ones ) decals and badges for free.
What other costs are you talking about ?
LisaWagnerCRS
Member
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
Edelman's FAQ piece says 12 months (just FYI).
Hard costs are the replacement of all materials - and since most have some video promoting their companies, and presentations showcasing their certifications (at least the savvy cleaners in our area do...) - spoke yesterday with a cleaner in my town who spent several thousand on video for their sites that showcase specifically their IICRC certifications.
But the bigger question of "cost" here is the cost to IICRC's customers.
The organization goes from being a certifying institute to a vague "concept". You have cleaners who have been on board for decades, being asked to change the entire script to their business to placate a PR agency whose "idea" comes from poorly culled feedback from a 18+ crowd on the internet.
The feedback should have come from PAYING cleaners, and not gamers who may or may not ever even entertain the idea of paying for a professional cleaning. For all we know all the respondents are from Nigeria.
IICRC, despite the bad leadership in the past decade, does have "worth" within this industry. If it did not, there would not have been the effort by many long-timers to get involved and help execute the reforms that took place this week and over the past 2 years. That history, and visibility in professional circles in cleaning, restoration, and insurance, is worth something.
This argument that the name needed to change because you guys are getting into installation is ridiculous. The only reason that standard came about was to create some funds/grants for Cooper and Costa - their pet project should not be a reason to change the name of an organization, especially since there already exists recognized standards in installation. The problem is not needed a new one, the problem is enforcing the old one so the shoddy work stops.
The Clean Trust is a stupid name. And totally unnecessary. With a little SEO help, and having more entertaining writers than Bishop crafting content, IICRC would have more internet presence. Even if there was usable content worth linking to, you would boost ranking organically, but the IICRC websites suck. Instead of wasting time surveying kids online about professional cleaning, they should have put up a blog and created some activity and fresh content. (Though even if the blog platform was free they'd probably require 50K to think about what to write about...)
This was a bad business decision born from a bad board. It needs to be corrected by the reformers.
Lisa
harryhides said:
Edelman's FAQ piece says 12 months (just FYI).
Hard costs are the replacement of all materials - and since most have some video promoting their companies, and presentations showcasing their certifications (at least the savvy cleaners in our area do...) - spoke yesterday with a cleaner in my town who spent several thousand on video for their sites that showcase specifically their IICRC certifications.
But the bigger question of "cost" here is the cost to IICRC's customers.
The organization goes from being a certifying institute to a vague "concept". You have cleaners who have been on board for decades, being asked to change the entire script to their business to placate a PR agency whose "idea" comes from poorly culled feedback from a 18+ crowd on the internet.
The feedback should have come from PAYING cleaners, and not gamers who may or may not ever even entertain the idea of paying for a professional cleaning. For all we know all the respondents are from Nigeria.
IICRC, despite the bad leadership in the past decade, does have "worth" within this industry. If it did not, there would not have been the effort by many long-timers to get involved and help execute the reforms that took place this week and over the past 2 years. That history, and visibility in professional circles in cleaning, restoration, and insurance, is worth something.
This argument that the name needed to change because you guys are getting into installation is ridiculous. The only reason that standard came about was to create some funds/grants for Cooper and Costa - their pet project should not be a reason to change the name of an organization, especially since there already exists recognized standards in installation. The problem is not needed a new one, the problem is enforcing the old one so the shoddy work stops.
The Clean Trust is a stupid name. And totally unnecessary. With a little SEO help, and having more entertaining writers than Bishop crafting content, IICRC would have more internet presence. Even if there was usable content worth linking to, you would boost ranking organically, but the IICRC websites suck. Instead of wasting time surveying kids online about professional cleaning, they should have put up a blog and created some activity and fresh content. (Though even if the blog platform was free they'd probably require 50K to think about what to write about...)
This was a bad business decision born from a bad board. It needs to be corrected by the reformers.
Lisa
ACE
Member
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
Your affiliation with the sleaziest marketing company in our industry (possibly in any industry) gives you ZERO credibility.
You have a fook of a lot of nerve to question anyone’s leadership.
Your affiliation with the sleaziest marketing company in our industry (possibly in any industry) gives you ZERO credibility.
You have a fook of a lot of nerve to question anyone’s leadership.
hogjowl
Idiot™
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
Ouch ... good grief ... was that called for?
I mean, for goodness sake, just because she hangs out with Joe doesn't mean she is a used car saleswoman, or something.
I have actually seen some good ideas and info. come from wonder woman over the years.
Ouch ... good grief ... was that called for?
I mean, for goodness sake, just because she hangs out with Joe doesn't mean she is a used car saleswoman, or something.
I have actually seen some good ideas and info. come from wonder woman over the years.
Desk Jockey
Member
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
That was brutal, this place is rough. shiteatinggrin
No, I don't think she deserves it, maybe years ago I'd have jumped in and thrown a few jabs too.
But today I respect Lisa a lot more than in the past. She gives plenty of help and free information without obligation. She fights the good fight and has risked her reputation time after time exposing people and their wrong doings made for personal gain.
She's earned my respect for caring more about the industry than herself.
Ahhh go ahead and kick her, just don't hurt her!
That was brutal, this place is rough. shiteatinggrin
No, I don't think she deserves it, maybe years ago I'd have jumped in and thrown a few jabs too.
But today I respect Lisa a lot more than in the past. She gives plenty of help and free information without obligation. She fights the good fight and has risked her reputation time after time exposing people and their wrong doings made for personal gain.
She's earned my respect for caring more about the industry than herself.
Ahhh go ahead and kick her, just don't hurt her!
Ken Snow
RIP
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
I agree and not only that but has anyone who insults Joe or Phiranna actually been to a seminar or heard Joe or Lisa speak? I have and they both do a great job in my opinion. Whether or not working with Phiranna to help your business grow is something that is a very individual issue, but don't just insult with nothing to back it up and no personal experience with them. Lisa gives tons of FREE info out here and also pulls no punches when it comes to being a cheerleader for the the cleaning business owner.
Ken
XTREME1 said:
I agree and not only that but has anyone who insults Joe or Phiranna actually been to a seminar or heard Joe or Lisa speak? I have and they both do a great job in my opinion. Whether or not working with Phiranna to help your business grow is something that is a very individual issue, but don't just insult with nothing to back it up and no personal experience with them. Lisa gives tons of FREE info out here and also pulls no punches when it comes to being a cheerleader for the the cleaning business owner.
Ken
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
I am not and never have been a piranha memebr. However, I have certainly benefited from both Polish and Lisa's public materials over the years.
Lisa is, in my opinion, one of the most credible people in this business (although I did send her something like $100 or $200 about six or seven years ago as a deposit for a rug cleaning course of some sort and I never heard back - but that's all water under the bridge as I myself never followed up with her).
My point is this: Many large successful businesses engage business consultants, coaches, and outside marketing expertise to help them grow their business, from car dealers to Fortune 500 firms. Why such hatred for someone who is simply offering to help the small cleaning company get the same type of help that is typically reserved for much larger firms.
Lisa certainly did not deserve that rebuke, and she certainly deserves a public apology.
Ken Snow said:
I am not and never have been a piranha memebr. However, I have certainly benefited from both Polish and Lisa's public materials over the years.
Lisa is, in my opinion, one of the most credible people in this business (although I did send her something like $100 or $200 about six or seven years ago as a deposit for a rug cleaning course of some sort and I never heard back - but that's all water under the bridge as I myself never followed up with her).
My point is this: Many large successful businesses engage business consultants, coaches, and outside marketing expertise to help them grow their business, from car dealers to Fortune 500 firms. Why such hatred for someone who is simply offering to help the small cleaning company get the same type of help that is typically reserved for much larger firms.
Lisa certainly did not deserve that rebuke, and she certainly deserves a public apology.
Ken Snow
RIP
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
I am working with a consultant group to help with my rug cleaning operation to improve both quality and through put. It will end up being at least double what any of our industries premier program costs annually and this project will be less than 3 months. Hiring people to help is smart bus if they have what you need.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
I am working with a consultant group to help with my rug cleaning operation to improve both quality and through put. It will end up being at least double what any of our industries premier program costs annually and this project will be less than 3 months. Hiring people to help is smart bus if they have what you need.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
LisaWagnerCRS
Member
Re: Well, well, well, Clean Trust has a CLEAN board as of to
Hey David - would have been closer to 8 years ago when I started a rug coaching program on a small scale, but I never had anyone left in my "pending" file (I'm pretty organized) so email me your details and I'll see what I can find. (rugchick@gmail.com) Let me know your contact info, back then it was ALL snail mail, but I still have files.
Everyone else thank you - and I don't need an apology from the "angry one"... I expect to have a target on me the fact is whenever anyone steps out to do anything forceful, and has success, it's a by-product that you get bashing... some uncalled for, and some called for. I know what I give, and the intentions behind it, and I have to leave it at that. Truth is I will have people who like me, and people who hate me, and I just pay attention to the ones on the "like" side. Makes life much more enjoyable.
I also know that I can, because of my position, say certain things that others cannot. No one is going to fire me, or ban me. It's all my opinion, and if I dish it out I better well be prepared to take a few punches back. I don't mind the sparring at all.
Off to enjoy the Vegas nightlife!
Lisa
dday said:
Hey David - would have been closer to 8 years ago when I started a rug coaching program on a small scale, but I never had anyone left in my "pending" file (I'm pretty organized) so email me your details and I'll see what I can find. (rugchick@gmail.com) Let me know your contact info, back then it was ALL snail mail, but I still have files.
Everyone else thank you - and I don't need an apology from the "angry one"... I expect to have a target on me the fact is whenever anyone steps out to do anything forceful, and has success, it's a by-product that you get bashing... some uncalled for, and some called for. I know what I give, and the intentions behind it, and I have to leave it at that. Truth is I will have people who like me, and people who hate me, and I just pay attention to the ones on the "like" side. Makes life much more enjoyable.
I also know that I can, because of my position, say certain things that others cannot. No one is going to fire me, or ban me. It's all my opinion, and if I dish it out I better well be prepared to take a few punches back. I don't mind the sparring at all.
Off to enjoy the Vegas nightlife!
Lisa
