Well well well

[Ron Lippold]

it seems this is still america. shawn got his business back and the judge understands his contract the way he has it written. good luck bro.

 

[Ken Snow]

That & $2.99 will buy him an overpriced/overroasted cup of coffee.

 

[Mikey P]

Considering that SS offered Shawn biz and patent back for free many times prior to the arbitration it comes as no surprise.

 

[Ryan]

Did he get any $$ out of it?

 

[randy]

Shawn said they offered to sell it back to him for a rather large sum. Sounds like the arbiter had the wisdom to see what was happening and ruled fairly. Personally I think SS should have been slammed with a high damages award. That is another industry giant wanna be that I will never trust or do business with. Regardless of whether vortex reemerges as an option for cleaners, those hunk of junk Sapphire units will never be widely accepted by cleaners. Talked with two guys that have them and they are worse than Chemtex units dependability wise , but cost a lot more. If you are going to run junk equipment, atleast buy the less costly junk.

Thanks for the update Ron.

 

[Mikey P]

When did $1.00 become a "Large Sum" Randy?

I'm really beginning to wonder about your sources within this industry.



I've yet to hear of an issue regarding the SS units.
Maybe Jim Bethel can chime in as he has sold more than any deal here in the US

 

[Jim Bethel]

That is another industry giant wanna be that I will never trust or do business with.[/color] Regardless of whether vortex reemerges as an option for cleaners, those hunk of junk Sapphire units will never be widely accepted by cleaners. Talked with two guys that have them and they are worse than Chemtex units dependability wise , but cost a lot more. If you are going to run junk equipment, atleast buy the less costly junk.

Thanks for the update Ron.

Hi Randy,

You seem pretty wound up about Sapphire. While I can't comment about the politics between Shawn the the team as Sapphire Scientific (simply because I do not know about it), the one thing I can comment on better than most is the design and build quality that the Sapphire TM's have. These guys aren't a 'wanna be' Randy, they are the real deal! Without turning this into a sales thread, I can completely disprove your comments about being a 'hunk of junk' and 'not being widely accepted by cleaners'.

I have been involved with and have been the international sales leader for every major brand of truckmount there is to sell. I admit there are other nice brands of truckmounts around, however the simplistic design of the Sapphire machines, the forethought in design and efficiency of their thermal water (water box), and the ingenuity of their space saving design have the Sapphire machines in a class above all the other major brand manufacturers.

From your 'won't be accepted by cleaners' quote - about 90% of the truckmounts sold here in Australia over the last 12 months have been Sapphire Scientific machines. This is from owner operators, right through to multi-truck owners that have 8-10 vehicles on the road. When purchasing, a cleaner will thoroughly investigate every machine brand to make sure they are getting the best bang for buck. So they look at every brand on the market - and so far since we introduced Sapphire - that is THE brand that cleaners are choosing. And is not because of the marketing we are doing either - it is because of the demo's. After the guys try the machines, they purchase them. Nearly all of my clients are already TM owners, so they quickly realise the strengths of the Sapphire units when they look at the engineering and performance compared to their existing HM or PC machines.

To date, the only issue that we have had was a spasmodic issue with the stainless steel float in the thermal well, which Sapphire corrected and shipped to us over here in Australia in under a week. No other manufacturer moves that quick, and I can promise you that from personal experience. Their attention for detail and willingness to listen to cleaners IS putting Sapphire ahead of the pack whether you like it or not Randy.

While I am not calling you a liar, I don't think other people you have been talking with have been upfront with you. I have sold more Sapphire machines than anyone, and 100% of our clients are more than impressed with them. I (and I am sure that lads from Sapphire Scientific) would love to talk with their clients you say are 'upset' with their machines. Why not suggest them to come to the MB and explain their story, because I am almost adamant, that someone isn't telling you the truth.

 

[randy]

When did $1.00 become a "Large Sum" Randy?

I'm really beginning to wonder about your sources within this industry.



I've yet to hear of an issue regarding the SS units.
Maybe Jim Bethel can chime in as he has sold more than any deal here in the US

Reread the post , "Shawn York told me".
As in phone call that occurred in March.
He said it was over $100,000 which to most of us rug suckers is a large sum of money. Enough to buy a 2008 Ferrari 360 , two Quiznos out of bankruptcy court or 278 Ruger LCPs.

You have yet to hear of an issue because you only read this board :roll:
There have been issues. I know a few guys that have them and they aren't impressed.
Mark my words, those units will last about as long as ACE truckmounts.
You gave me all sorts of shit when I said Steamway & Vortex would go under back in our blue board days so I expect it since your a Sapphire Scientific ass kiss now a days.
Wait n see. Their roll up over there at SS will unroll quicker than the Obama administration.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Randy,...So you think he will be reelected?

 

[Bob Foster]

@ Lee

 

[randy]

That is another industry giant wanna be that I will never trust or do business with.[/color] Regardless of whether vortex reemerges as an option for cleaners, those hunk of junk Sapphire units will never be widely accepted by cleaners. Talked with two guys that have them and they are worse than Chemtex units dependability wise , but cost a lot more. If you are going to run junk equipment, atleast buy the less costly junk.

Thanks for the update Ron.

Hi Randy,

You seem pretty wound up about Sapphire. While I can't comment about the politics between Shawn the the team as Sapphire Scientific (simply because I do not know about it), the one thing I can comment on better than most is the design and build quality that the Sapphire TM's have. These guys aren't a 'wanna be' Randy, they are the real deal! Without turning this into a sales thread, I can completely disprove your comments about being a 'hunk of junk' and 'not being widely accepted by cleaners'.

I have been involved with and have been the international sales leader for every major brand of truckmount there is to sell. I admit there are other nice brands of truckmounts around, however the simplistic design of the Sapphire machines, the forethought in design and efficiency of their thermal water (water box), and the ingenuity of their space saving design have the Sapphire machines in a class above all the other major brand manufacturers.

From your 'won't be accepted by cleaners' quote - about 90% of the truckmounts sold here in Australia over the last 12 months have been Sapphire Scientific machines. This is from owner operators, right through to multi-truck owners that have 8-10 vehicles on the road. When purchasing, a cleaner will thoroughly investigate every machine brand to make sure they are getting the best bang for buck. So they look at every brand on the market - and so far since we introduced Sapphire - that is THE brand that cleaners are choosing. And is not because of the marketing we are doing either - it is because of the demo's. After the guys try the machines, they purchase them. Nearly all of my clients are already TM owners, so they quickly realise the strengths of the Sapphire units when they look at the engineering and performance compared to their existing HM or PC machines.

To date, the only issue that we have had was a spasmodic issue with the stainless steel float in the thermal well, which Sapphire corrected and shipped to us over here in Australia in under a week. No other manufacturer moves that quick, and I can promise you that from personal experience. Their attention for detail and willingness to listen to cleaners IS putting Sapphire ahead of the pack whether you like it or not Randy.

While I am not calling you a liar, I don't think other people you have been talking with have been upfront with you. I have sold more Sapphire machines than anyone, and 100% of our clients are more than impressed with them. I (and I am sure that lads from Sapphire Scientific) would love to talk with their clients you say are 'upset' with their machines. Why not suggest them to come to the MB and explain their story, because I am almost adamant, that someone isn't telling you the truth.

Wound up about Sapphire, not at all. I have just see the mechanics of "board marketing" enough to recognize what is happening here. The two guys that I talked to seemed like straight shooters, but I tend to trust cleaners over salesmen (and forgive me but you are a salesman) and so is Mikey.

I also watched them repeatedly claim that they weren't shelving the Vortex. Brudders even emailed me a denial when I said they were here on MB. It was pretty obvious that Vortex owners were being lied too here on MB and a sort while latter they canned the Vortex. Now we are supposed to trust this company because they hosted Mikey's fest ?

Perhaps these two guys are isolated cases, but I don't think so.
I stand by my predictions. Their line of truckmounts will not become much of a force within the industry.
Perhaps what happens in Australia stays in Australia, we will probably have a better idea by Connections.
Right now guys are looking for lower cost truckmounts and Sapphire has brilliantly tapped into that.
I don't seem them becoming the new Prochem or Hydromaster anytime in your lifetime.
Anyone choosing a Sapphire over a Judson or Master Blend unit needs to have their head examined.
I have to give you credit though Jim for defending their units so ardently and apparently doing well selling them. You remind me of some of those guys at Steamway and their slogan "Steamway stronger than ever".
Two years latter they were gone.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Guess you haven't met Jim Roden?

 

[randy]

Randy,...So you think he will be reelected?

Funny till it happens.
Seriously, I think his administration effectively ends this fall with the mid term elections. Amazing how fast two years is racing by. God is gracious, even when our country elects a long term Marxist.
A long term Marxist with friends that robbed armored cars, murdered police officers/ security guards and bombed the Pentagon.

 

[roro]

From your 'won't be accepted by cleaners' quote - about 90% of the truckmounts sold here in Australia over the last 12 months have been Sapphire Scientific machines. This is from owner operators, right through to multi-truck owners that have 8-10 vehicles on the road. ...
....While I am not calling you a liar,

That is an absolutely staggering statistic Jim. Where do you get if from :roll:

roro

 

[Mikey P]

I imagine he gets it from his sales receipts.


I'll assume Jim meant sold through his shop and not nation wide.


Randy, you'll have to look into a past life time of mine to find where I ever defended Steamway to you or anyone.


I don't know of a 100K offer to York but I can assure you that at the time of the Great Debate between York and I the offer made to him from SS was for $.1.00.

Later discounted to 100% off.


and on last Friday it was forced upon York to take it back.

 

[Jim Bethel]

From your 'won't be accepted by cleaners' quote - about 90% of the truckmounts sold here in Australia over the last 12 months have been Sapphire Scientific machines. This is from owner operators, right through to multi-truck owners that have 8-10 vehicles on the road. ...
....While I am not calling you a liar,

That is an absolutely staggering statistic Jim. Where do you get if from :roll:

roro

Hey Ross,

When I have a very educated guess at how many new machines (I have no idea about second hand units) are sold per year into Australia, and I know how many new TM’s we are moving, it is pretty easy to make a calculated guess.

1) In general, when cleaners are buying a machine they will get demo's and quotes from every major supplier. I know how many of these same cleaners that we are assisting into new Sapphire truckmounts, therefore, they aren't buying the 'other' brands.

2) A more sneaky way :wink: Some of our competitors current employee's have been contacting us about coming to work with our company. When asked about current sales they have all painted the same picture – the lack of TM sales at their current place of work. Some of these guys and girls have already come on board, and other acquisitions are still on going 8) More will come to light shortly though Roro.

Combine these pieces of info, and that is where I come up with that figure from.

 

[Jim Bethel]

Wound up about Sapphire, not at all. I have just see the mechanics of "board marketing" enough to recognize what is happening here. The two guys that I talked to seemed like straight shooters, but I tend to trust cleaners over salesmen (and forgive me but you are a salesman) and so is Mikey.

I have also seen the pack mentality on the boards over the years, and as I said earlier, I try and stay out of the politics side of it all. Doesn't effect my business, so why worry about it? Point taken as well about the sales person part as well. I knew how it was going to come off when I typed it, but doesn't matter if I was wearing a cleaning cap, or a sales persons cap - the only thing am interested in is the design and build quality of a truckmount. I could care less for a brand name - I and my clients are only concerned first and foremost about reliability, and second performance. Sapphire fills their criteria.

Perhaps these two guys are isolated cases, but I don't think so.
I stand by my predictions. Their line of truckmounts will not become much of a force within the industry.
Perhaps what happens in Australia stays in Australia, we will probably have a better idea by Connections.
Right now guys are looking for lower cost truckmounts and Sapphire has brilliantly tapped into that.
I don't seem them becoming the new Prochem or Hydromaster anytime in your lifetime.
Anyone choosing a Sapphire over a Judson or Master Blend unit needs to have their head examined.
I have to give you credit though Jim for defending their units so ardently and apparently doing well selling them. You remind me of some of those guys at Steamway and their slogan "Steamway stronger than ever".
Two years latter they were gone.

Don't put Sapphire and Steamway in the same sentance Randy The writing was on the wall for SteamWay for sometime.

The marketplace is very transparent nowadays. Our cleaners almost identical in Australia and New Zealand (apart from Roro and Middleton ) to cleaners in USA, Canada or Europe. We all have the battle of making the phone ring, keep our clients happy and making a profit at the end of the day - no matter what continent you clean on. Due to our physical size of our country and lack of people inhabiting it, the difference I notice when selling over here, is that cleaners are more interested in the longevity and ease of service. Because if something breaks down, they may have a 2 day drive to get to their NEAREST dealer. Where in the USA, there is a lot more sales/service outlets. When I am selling over here, we often have all the panels off the machines, and most of the cleaners need to understand the complete running of the machine before they purchase it - as generally, they are going to be the ones fixing it down the track in years to come.

In my opinion, I do think they will be THE force in the truckmount industry in a lot less than my life time. You tell me Randy, our of the major manufacturers, which heat exchange TM can get full temperature (at pressure and flow) as quick as the Sapphire TM's do? Prochem and HydraMaster have nothing that can match them. Our of the other majors manufacturers, which ones have a dual wand machine (I know everyone doesn't need a dual wand machine - but just using an example) that is only 20" wide? Neither PC or HM do! Which other company is that confident of their workmanship and reliability that they cover parts AND labour for 2 years? Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that it is only Sapphire.

Thats just some of the reasons I know they will be/are a major player in the manufacturing side of our industry. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and as you say, time will tell.

 

[Mikey P]

I trust Randy will remember this conversation for a long time.

 

[roro]

You put the case well Jim. I am impressed that you have achieved such market domination. It's a pity that Bonehead didn't quite understand that you were talking about the whole country which is really an incredible achievement especially in such tough economic times.


Next thing you will be on the speakers circuit as a marketing guru
Serious question - what do you think has been the major factor in your attaining such market dominance?


roro

 

[Jim Bethel]

Next thing you will be on the speakers circuit as a marketing guru

roro

Guru - oh oh :shock: I hope I am never called one of them. I am far from that.

I am happy with my 'Baffles' tag that Flattop bestowed upon me lol

I wish I could attribute the domination that Sapphire has had down here to Gary or I, but the machines sell themselves. I know it sounds very corny, but it is true. Most of the cleaners we have supplied Sapphire truckmounts too have purchased because of the experienced team behind the scenes as Sapphire. No other brand can boast about the years in design or manufacturer like Sapphire. Makes my job real easy 8)

Now, lets get back to Randy's and Ron's discussion about Yorkie.

 

[Tony Neville]

The Question I have, is how many here would throw out 100k+ for a new truckmount in this economy? From an unknown manufacturer? On an untested platform? On a design that has ranged from great to less than stellar? With no network of dealers? With a spotty service record at the best of times?

I have some land for sale…..

Tony

 

[Ryan]

The Question I have, is how many here would throw out 100k+ for a new truckmount in this economy? From an unknown manufacturer? On an untested platform? On a design that has ranged from great to less than stellar? With no network of dealers? With a spotty service record at the best of times?

I have some land for sale…..

Tony

Throw in the Golden Gate?

 

[John Olson]

Which other company is that confident of their workmanship and reliability that they cover parts AND labour for 2 years? Correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that it is only Sapphire.

I Love ya Jim but since you asked....Prochem is 2 years parts and Labor and is the ONLY manufactuer that will take replace a machine instead of trying to fix it when it has a gremlin.

 

[Jim Bethel]

Lucky I put the 'correct me if I am wrong' part in there then somewhat amus Over here in Oz they definitely don't do that - but I wasn't sure of what happens in the USA.

Good to see you still bleed 'Prochem Blue' John, but what happens when they roll out the next range of machines and they aren't called Prochem anymore, but the are called Karcher and are bright yellow? Gunna bleed yellow then? Just stirring ya mate - but you better get used of a color change at least :wink:

 

[John Olson]

Now now Jim I have a 370 in MY trailer that is rented out and used for demos. The previous trailer was a 2100. I lead with Dri-Eaz, my favortie stain remover are CTI I prefer max PAC over ultra PAC and powerstrike over extreme clean axiom over Procyon but Procyon over soap free ultra citra boost over citrus pro....... I could go on but I think that paints a fair picture. if I could get someone to buy a ss machine you can bet your ass i'll sell em one right now I'd just like to sell a friggen new machine any new machine.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Jm, are you still selling Powerclean TMs??

..L.T.A.

 

[Jim Bethel]

But you didn't tell me what your favourite gum gel is John- lol I hope bright yellow goes with your corporate colours though. :wink:

I get the gist of what you are saying though.

And Larry, yeah, we are still an agent for PowerClean, but when cleaners are choosing to invest in their new equipment, they research all the different brands thoroughly, and since Sapphire Scientific was introduced to the Aussie marketplace, that is been what most of the cleaners want.

This will answer your question as well Roro about why the Sapphire has quickly dominated the marketplace. With our smaller vehicles we have over here (and in NZ), the Sapphire units are the most attractive because PowerClean, HydraMaster & Prochem don't have anything when comparing the performance of each truckmount to the physical size. The Sapphire machines ARE in a class all of their own when comparing the major manufacturers.

Even though the brand name 'Sapphire Scientific' is new - the guys that are designing and building them aren't, and that is very important to me, and to my clients. Another big feature is the thermal well (water box). Out of every truckmount we have ever used, played with or sold - I have never seen a more efficient heating system. When the machine is warmed up (after about 2-3 minutes) I can put a pressure washing gun on the end of 200 ft of solution hose at 1500 psi and drop the temp gauge down to nothing/cold - but as soon as I let the trigger go on the pressure washing gun, it only takes about 4 or 5 seconds for the temp gauge to get back 240 again. I have never seen such a responsive system - EVER. And it is so simple as well. The other thing a lot of cleaners have been having issues with on their Prochem truckmounts (that's Karcher for you Olson ) here in Australia where their belts are shredding at anywhere from 200-400 hours, which is quite premature. On the Sapphire machines, Mike Roden and his team have identified this and have designed a way to keep cooler air continually blowing over the belts as they are working, which will therefore greatly extend belt life.

While there is a lot of nice brands TM's manufactured, after the cleaners over here get to see all the different major brands of machines demonstrated - most of them have been comfortable in purchasing the Sapphire Scientific machines above all other brands due to these and quite a few other reasons.

Jim

 

[Joe Bristor]

Jim Bethel: "...'Sapphire Scientific' is new..."


Enough said.


How many of these units have sold and are actually in use in AUS to date Jim?

 

[Jim Bethel]

Jim Bethel: "...'Sapphire Scientific' is new..."


Enough said.


How many of these units have sold and are actually in use in AUS to date Jim?

There is a lot more in volume in the USA, but personally myself(not including any of our other staff)..... over 30 now and we are only half way through the year. Remember over here, there is only 4500 cleaners approx in our entire country, so we are never going to have massive numbers - but for the size of industry and being a "new" brand, they have been very well accepted.

Here is another two that rolled out this week....

Side door view

Rear door view

No other brands of TM give our cleaners the performance like the Sapphire machines do, with the space saving benefits.

The most important thing to us as ex cleaners and now distributors is that our clients have the most reliable run possible out of their machines - no matter the brand name. As everyone knows, machines will break down, and will need to be serviced. In general, the more you service a machine, the better longevity you will get out of it. Look at the photo's below Joe......

Boxxer 427

Sapphire 454

You tell me which machine you would rather work on?? Which machine do you think has better cross ventilation to keep everything cool?? I would pick the Sapphire any day of the week. What you don't realize with this photo though, is that the van the Boxxer is installed into, is a much wider van, that the van the Sapphire unit is installed into, so this makes the space saving even greater. Keep in mind that the Sapphire has a 35hp motor (compared to the Boxxer's 27 hp) and has a much bigger vacuum blower that pulls higher inches of mercury compared to the blower on the Boxxer. The guys at Sapphire have put together a more powerful machine, in a much smaller footprint that allows ourselves and/or our clients to service their machines more often, because it is simpler and easier to do.

In all honesty, I could care less for brand names. I am more concerned with the research and engineering that has gone in behind the scenes. While you might not have heard the 'Sapphire Scientific" brand name until a few years ago, due to the industrial way the machines have been produced, I know these units will become household names within our industry just like Prochem and HydraMaster are now.

There is no use taking part of sentence (the word 'new) out of context Joe. Last time I checked, Kohler, Kubota, CAT and Gardner Denver weren't 'new' brands. Neither is Michael Roden. That one guy has designed more TM's than anyone else in our industry I am safe to say (again, someone correct me if I am wrong).

Jim

 

[Joe Bristor]

Jim,
It wasn't out of context.
New is new is new.
Everything was new at one time. It's OK.
It's just important to keep it in mind, especially something as complicated as a new truckmount design.

Your 30 units is just now reaching the size of a statistically valid "sample".
No doubt the experience behind it will help alot but new is new is still new.
No doubt this unit is more advanced than a Boxxer or recent PC but me, or some other name brand, but why compare to one of the major brands anyway? Why not compare to units with multi-year track records, units that can be serviced by the user? Ones that can get to 240F in 20-30sec and 500psi at the end of 150ft. that's plenty good for a carpet cleaner, plenty good for me. Your 1500psi is what's out of context. I'll take a simple unit, one I can work on without needing you. The absolute last unit I'd pick is one that's new on the market. If there were a need for new sure, but6 just give you a new brand to jump ship to? Give me a break.
Although I expect this new SS unit to be a big hit, let's talk at the 1000th unit. Then we won't need to use that awful word "New".
We can say NOW.
OK?
Oh, you can't wait that long?
Sorry Jim.
Man, all I can say is I'm glad I'm not one of the 90%.