What the good, bad or ugly with

[Captain Morgan]

with the following machines?
Blue Line Blue Wave
BL Thermalwave 2
Prochem Everest

I'm looking/wanting to trade up to a bigger machine (preferably dual wand capable).

I've looked at 405's but felt for the amount of money a good 405 will cost it might be wiser to spent a little more and get a newer machine.

Any one of these machines head and shoulders above the rest or a definite "stay the hell away"?

Thanks for any advice.
Capt.

 

[hogjowl]

Do you prefer Coke or Pepsi?

 

[Nate The Great]

Stay away from the top 2 unless your @Jim Martin @GeneMiller @AshleyMckendree

Get the one that still has support....

 

[Captain Morgan]

I prefer Coke, Pepsi is too sweet.

A fair and honest answer Nate but aside from the obvious that Prochem is still in business and the Everest still in production, are there issues with that model line?

It seems like diverters, heat exchangers, excessive belt wear are the usual gremlins with most. Is there anything I'm missing like a particular model year to avoid, etc?

 

[GeneMiller]

Bill if you really want to dual wand consider the 870. even with one hose off it still has plenty of suck. the heat is better and more consistent then my little giant ever was. they have been out long enough you could find a used one. i can't say long term yet but it has 1200 hrs and runs the same as day one with zero down time. i have an annoying belt squeal above 1000 psi which i can't seem to make go away but so far thats it. i had the thermal wave with the 5m which i modified and it could dual, but had about 140 -170 in the heat department depending on flow. you did have to keep both tools on the carpet because there was zero spare air. i don't know the everest but prochem certainly makes good machines. just like other companies some are better than others.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Hi Gene, I appreciate the info on the TW II. If money was no object the 870 would be my preferred choice. I have had no luck finding a used one yet.

JonDon had one in Tampa and it went super fast. An ad lists a green colored TMT (the masters touch) 888 as a SS870. I'm guessing it's a private label? Its in a traitor and about 5-7k more than I can swing.

 

[Captain Morgan]

If there are any Everest 650 HP owners who can comment on how well their TM's perform attaining and/or maintaining water temperature and dual vacuuming as Gene did with regard to his TW II, that would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Capt.

 

[Mikey P]

Everest of the three for sure

 

[JS41035]

The 650 is a beast. Not as hot as an 870. But still great.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Thanks Justin. When you say not as hot..can you be a little more specific? For example: Can it maintain a minimum of 200 - 210 degrees dual wanding with 8-10 flow on each wand? I don't know if that is considered realistic or not for an HP650 or not but I think it should be...maybe I'm delirious. I know from what I've read on here and other boards the 870 is the hottest.

Just throwing out some numbers there as a base line point of reference for discussion and an apple's to apple's comparison.

I'm used to a fuel fired system so heat has never been an issue but it's just a single wand deal and I need more vacuum for longer runs, bigger commercial work requiring 2 wands.
I can't thank you all enough for your advice.
Capt.

 

[GeneMiller]

Thanks Justin. When you say not as hot..can you be a little more specific? For example: Can it maintain a minimum of 200 - 210 degrees dual wanding with 8-10 flow on each wand? I don't know if that is considered realistic or not for an HP650 or not but I think it should be...maybe I'm delirious. I know from what I've read on here and other boards the 870 is the hottest.

Just throwing out some numbers there as a base line point of reference for discussion and an apple's to apple's comparison.

I'm used to a fuel fired system so heat has never been an issue but it's just a single wand deal and I need more vacuum for longer runs, bigger commercial work requiring 2 wands.
I can't thank you all enough for your advice.
Capt.

bill when i was dualing with the thermal wave the water temperature were horrible but it never seemed to hurt the cleaning. keep in mind, i don't do restaurants. at the time i was running one high flow zipper and one high flow wand. you can always boost temperatures with burner if you really want the extra heat.

 

[JS41035]

Thanks Justin. When you say not as hot..can you be a little more specific? For example: Can it maintain a minimum of 200 - 210 degrees dual wanding with 8-10 flow on each wand? I don't know if that is considered realistic or not for an HP650 or not but I think it should be...maybe I'm delirious. I know from what I've read on here and other boards the 870 is the hottest.

Just throwing out some numbers there as a base line point of reference for discussion and an apple's to apple's comparison.

I'm used to a fuel fired system so heat has never been an issue but it's just a single wand deal and I need more vacuum for longer runs, bigger commercial work requiring 2 wands.
I can't thank you all enough for your advice.
Capt.

The Everest won't hold 200-210 with that flow. At least not if both wands are constantly triggered. Drop your flow down to 12 total and it will be great.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Gene, what's your recommendation for boosting heat? A Little Giant, Northstar or a Hotsy type burner?

Justin, thanks for the guidance on flow rate too. 200 -210 degrees dual wanting at 16 flow, I'll admit might be perfect world dreaming..but even 170 temps for occasional commercial jobs I think wouldn't be too bad.

Sounds like the Everest would be able to handle big square foot residential jobs without any problems maintaining heat dual wanding or higher flow single wanding and tile or upholstery cleaning?

 

[Captain America]

Dual wanting is difficult .....probably need at least a 5.6 blower.
And need a fuel heater.. I use northern tools kero heaters.
2 wands is about half the air flow and twice the water flow.
Keri will keep up to 4 gpm water flow
Propane about 2-3 gpm
Heat exchange about 1 gpm or about 6-8 jet flow

 

[Captain Morgan]

Thanks C.A.,

I've got a fuel fired set up now and I'm trying to noodle through how I would shoehorn a Everest 650 with fresh and waste tanks, reels, chems, wands, etc AND an extra water heater into a standard length Express 3500. I'm thinking I'm going to need an extended or box truck?

It just keeps getting worser and worser!

 

[JS41035]

What are you planning to dual wand? I doubt you will need a fuel fired heater. Lots of Everests are used for dual wanding every day. You will find people that had troubles. But far more often people just run them for thousands and thousands of hours. I personally view the larger Prochem units (anything with a Kubota or bigger) like I view Toyota cars. Not the highest performance but generally extremely reliable.
That's not to say Sapphire isn't equally reliable. But I've watched the same 405 just purr for a decade making my family money.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Library's, municipal buildings, restaurants (combo carpet and tile) large pediatric offices, considering other large commercial senior living centers, smaller CPA, insurance and attorney's offices and everything in between. I want to pick up a used Cimex so I can offer interim maintenance cleaning services along with it.

Haven't totally ruled out a 405 as perhaps a more moderate next step up in truckmounts. But I guess my gut is telling me to get something that is in production and not something the stopped being made 13-14 years ago...I'm soooo confused!

 

[GeneMiller]

Thanks C.A.,

I've got a fuel fired set up now and I'm trying to noodle through how I would shoehorn a Everest 650 with fresh and waste tanks, reels, chems, wands, etc AND an extra water heater into a standard length Express 3500. I'm thinking I'm going to need an extended or box truck?

It just keeps getting worser and worser!

You can add a burner like Ron did. He used the eldiablo heater. Very space friendly but around 5 grand. You would have to be handy to add it on. Whatever burner you have just keep when you get rid of the machine. Probably the easiest. What we want and what's practical is always the same

 

[Mikey P]

Want to buy a Vortex?

 

[JS41035]

You going to a portable now?

 

[Captain America]

Northern tools has 2 different kero burners under 2000$ each.
I looked into dual winding a while back and found it cheaper just to buy 2 vans and 2 truck mounts.
If you have restaurant and there is just 2 workers it's easier and faster to do 1 van1 wand as the other guy is pushing tables.....
Large jobs we put 1 van on one end and the other on. The other end.
I would like to hear from someone that has a dual wand system that works??
Remember the specs on the vacuum is half...also lose vac when you pick up the wand..
4.7 blower is 4800 CFm..half of that is less than a 3.0 starter blower truck mount......
You could however put 2 medium size truck mounts in a box van and use the 1 kero heater......
That was my last option before I went to the extra van....

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I still have 1 of a pair of 440,000 btu heaters we bought for a project at MSU 20 years ago. Wayne burner and ignition. MONSTER heat.

I don't miss it. Flow switches, stink, igniter failure at worst time (like a light bulb).

Sexy sounding as it fired. Unless it didn't...or wouldn't stop.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Yes Justin, you were right.

 

[Captain America]

Steam action makes some large machines but I don't know about dual wand.

 

[Captain America]

also. Call Judson truck mounts
out in n Carolina and see what he has to say
Thanks

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Steam Action was at the Atlanta show.

No two ever alike.

 

[Captain America]

Has anyone owned a steam action and how's the heat that he claims to get.

 

[Captain America]

Library's, municipal buildings, restaurants (combo carpet and tile) large pediatric offices, considering other large commercial senior living centers, smaller CPA, insurance and attorney's offices and everything in between. I want to pick up a used Cimex so I can offer interim maintenance cleaning services along with it.

Haven't totally ruled out a 405 as perhaps a more moderate next step up in truckmounts. But I guess my gut is telling me to get something that is in production and not something the stopped being made 13-14 years ago...I'm soooo confused!

Cap. To cap
I talked with steam brite , steam action and Judson on this and other issues.
Donald at steam brite gave me the best answer....
You can dual wand from the same truck but probably need 2 truck mounts.....
He suggested 1 truck mount with a large pump ( cat 4-6)
1 more truck mount with engine and blower only...cost 6-10 k$
Use the 1 pump and the 1 fuel heat......plumb them for dual wand
Only start the 2 nd truck mount when needed......
Only other question is the tank???
I believe this is the only way you can get an economicle dual wand in 1 van