What the heck is it with those dang Coit guys?

[Rex Tyus]

ABSOLUTLEY INCORRECT- he used COIT's gas, time, supplies and marketing to pay his client expenses. If you had an employee do it to you you would see it as theft as well.

If that does not convince you that it is theft then think about it like this: At a company could they allow EVERY SINGLE employee to do that and still survive- NO WAY.

It is theft- 100%.

If he does that I personally could not trust that he is not stealing chemicals from COIT too.

No he didn't. He took advantage of Coit's ignorance in selling him one of their used van's. KNowing full well he wasn't going to just let it set in his drive way as decorum. :shock:

It is not theft. You are letting your bias dictate your definition. I think it was wrong but it wasn't theft. The chemical theft you speak of is speculation.

 

[DRScrivner]

The customer said in his review he called COIT and a COIT employee responded to his residence, completed the estimate and then proceeded to say- "But I am starting my own business"- and gave a lower price for him to return on the weekend.

He aquired that client with COIT's resources- marketing, gas, time, etc..

THEFT- Hello!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Rex Tyus]

We could go back and forth. If you were to reach really far you could make the case for "theft of time" (an old retail term used when you wanted to fire someone for goofing off but didn't reeally have a reason). But that is it. He did what he was sent to do. Don't get me wrong I am not condoning his behavior. I find it disheartening an employee would do that to the company that writes his paycheck.

It just is not the same as theft. Not in my opinion or WEBSTER'S.

Everytime another carpet cleaner runs an add I get phone calls. I benefit from their resources. Does that make me a thief also?

 

[DRScrivner]

We could go back and forth. If you were to reach really far you could make the case for "theft of time" (an old retail term used when you wanted to fire someone for goofing off but didn't reeally have a reason). But that is it. He did what he was sent to do. Don't get me wrong I am not condoning his behavior. I find it disheartening an employee would do that to the company that writes his paycheck.

It just is not the same as theft. Not in my opinion or WEBSTER'S.

Everytime another carpet cleaner runs an add I get phone calls. I benefit from their resources. Does that make me a thief also?

No you were not an agent for that other carpet cleaner. You had NOTHING to do with the client calling you by accident or coincidence.

In Arizona, where I was a in Law Enforcement for over 15 years, it is most definately theft. Would they prosecute, not in a big city- too much work to build the case. I was a Detective in a small town for five years and you better darn well believe if the business owner came to that police station and filed a report, it would be investigated, and by what that customer review stated he would have been prosecuted.

In fact it is called Fraudulent Scemes and Atrifices and in Arizona that is a Class 2 Felony. The other crimes in Arizona with higher penalties are 1st Degree and 2nd Degree murder- whether you agree or not, it's true.

Maybe that is a severely harsh penalty for this situation, but it is the law in Arizona- and I suspect in California too, as Arizona follows California- just 10 - 15 years later with laws.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Dude be honest. If your station got a call to investigate such bullshit as that you would all LAUGH YOUR DONUT EATING ASSES OFF and you know it.

 

[joey895]

I don't know if it is "legally" theft or not, meaning I'm not sure he could be prosecuted and put in jail.

Morally though is another story. I don't consider him any higher than a common thief. I would consider it theft and fire him so fast his head would spin and if I had proof that he used my equipment and/or chemicals I would prosecute or at least have the report filled out.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Hell in many of the States I worked in over the years if you even caught someone red handed stealing merchandise from you and fired them they COULD COLLECT UNEMPLOYMENT if It was under $50.

Prosecute the poor Coit guy my ass. You would be lucky if you didn't wind up in court for Slander yourowndamnself.

 

[DRScrivner]

13-2310. Fraudulent schemes and artifices; classification; definition

A. Any person who, pursuant to a scheme or artifice to defraud, knowingly obtains any benefit by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, promises or material omissions is guilty of a class 2 felony.

B. Reliance on the part of any person shall not be a necessary element of the offense described in subsection A of this section.

C. A person who is convicted of a violation of this section that involved a benefit with a value of one hundred thousand dollars or more is not eligible for suspension of sentence, probation, pardon or release from confinement on any basis except pursuant to section 31-233, subsection A or B until the sentence imposed by the court has been served, the person is eligible for release pursuant to section 41-1604.07 or the sentence is commuted.

D. The state shall apply the aggregation prescribed by section 13-1801, subsection B to violations of this section in determining the applicable punishment.

E. As used in this section, "scheme or artifice to defraud" includes a scheme or artifice to deprive a person of the intangible right of honest services.


You apparently have no experience with a small town police department. They see things like this as the degredation of modern society and enforce stuff like this vigorously to keep from becoming like a "big city", with all the crime and social issues. I used to get reamed constantly for giving written warnings instead of tickets for speeding.

 

[Rex Tyus]

You apparently have no experience with a small town police department. They see things like this as the degredation of modern society and enforce stuff like this vigorously to keep from becoming like a "big city", with all the crime and social issues. I used to get reamed constantly for giving written warnings instead of tickets for speeding.

LMFAO. Google Marianna FL. Then tell me how you define "small town". In a small town if that happened someone would just tote an ass whoopin. Plain and simple. Calling the cops is for pussys and Yankees. :shock:

Even if you could find someone to "investigate" the "crime". It would not make it to court. A Judge would through it out.

This is VERY SUBJECTIVE

A. Any person who, pursuant to a scheme or artifice to defraud, knowingly obtains any benefit by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, promises or material omissions is guilty of a class 2 felony

 

[DRScrivner]

EVERY law ever written is subjective depending upon how you look at it.

I am sorry if you think it is harsh, or even personally disagree, but that undeniable fact remains what he did is a form of theft.

Can he be investigated, prosecuted and found guilty- absolutely. Does that mean it will happen- I doubt it. First off COIT would have to press charges, then an investigation would have to be completed. The EASY way to prove this is continuance of a pattern. COIT turns over records to the detective of all the estimates, he has done for the last year, that were not converted to COIT business. The cops interview those people and if they find even one case, but the more the stronger- especially if spread out over time.

Then it would have to go to trial. Then they would face a jury which may have people like minded as yourself that think that this is not theft, and some like me that think it is. Then it is in the hands of the prosecutor and then the jury.

Personally after conducting, (and testifying on a few) investigations into theft, shopligting, fraudulent schemes, narcotics, and other major crimes, if COIT wanted to prosecute he COULD face serious trouble (at least in AZ).

 

[Rex Tyus]

We disagree. Your "interpretation" of the State statue does not make it a fact.

 

[Guest]

i applaud the guy for stealing like i said those big franchises are a total rip off all they are about is go out and get the money do what ever you can if you got no brakes kept driving i had 8 years experience they never wanted to adavance in carpet cleaning they wanted advancement in profit, no pump sprayer its broke they say put the pry spray on with a trigger sprayer, and do that for all of those 7 jobs you got for the day by your self. scott

 

[Rex Tyus]

I don't applaud him. I think his behavior sucks. It just is not theft. If his environment is to bad to work in he should quit and get the hell out. No excuse for what he did.

 

[DRScrivner]

Do you take investment advice from a guy that has never bought any stocks.

Do you take advice on how to fix a car from a guy that doesn't know a wrench from a ratchet?

I have had over 15 years of training and direct experience in the investigation and enforcement of laws, including this one.

I am curious as to how much experience you have with these issues in that realm?

 

[Rex Tyus]

Do you take investment advice from a guy that has never bought any stocks.

Do you take advice on how to fix a car from a guy that doesn't know a wrench from a ratchet?

I have had over 15 years of training and direct experience in the investigation and enforcement of laws, including this one.

I am curious as to how much experience you have with these issues in that realm?

You are speaking with a very narrow frame of reference. I seriously doubt if even one person in your jurisdiction was ever convited with the exact same circumstances. If they were and it wasn't overturned on appeal then the hayseed defense attorney sucked as well.

I have had real live fulltime police officers refuse to arrest someone that is on freaking video tape.
I have had real live Attorney generals refuse to prosecute when the thief is on video tape.

I have had to pay unemployment to thugs that stole less than fifty dollars.

Some poor bastard that don't know any better because his training sucked and the guy in the shop that sold him his COIT van told him he could make good money on the side cleaning don't stand a snowballs chance in hell of being convicted of a crime. Being a FORMER police officer in a small town does not make you an attorney either. In fact I AM SO FAMILIAR with small towns I even know the typical kind of guy they hire for that job.

 

[RandyHilburn]

Seems to me that while the employee was being paid by Coit, he used his employers time and support systems to undermine the employer's sales ability. I believe he acted in a manner that was harmful to the company.

With a more investigation, the company might be able to show that this was a pattern of behavior and that they were finanially damaged by the employees actions. If not criminal in nature, the company could certainly pursue it in civil court.

 

[jeff powell]

In california the law is 487(a)(3) employee theft of money, labor, property. Hell, in California it is petty theft to take more than 25 copies of a free newspaper. Jeff Powell. current cop. The last statement is also true, case could be dealt with in civil court.

There is also 498(b) theft of utilities. Think about that the next time you use the wrong apartments water for your truckmount.

Jeff Powell