What's upsell to you & is it unthinkable?

[harryhides]

Fascinating history.. honestly..
so respectfully. i have to admit.. that when I read this.. I once again ask myself.

"all of that history (Ken Snow) .. and yet you offer 99.00 whole house specials and do the unthinkable.. UPSELL... Why?""
I don't get it. Respectfully,
Dobs

I'm not offended when a waitress ask if I want desert, or the Lube dude says I could use a new air filter.

Is an extra room "Upsell, or furniture or a Rug or the tile floor or is it just Deo and Gard ?? If so why?

Frankly when one of my Techs sells a higher rate of cleaning frequency to a customer - that is also an "upsell" to me.

I guess when you are already on the top of the mountain in your own mind, it's pretty hard to go up any more. But then again you risk becoming closed minded.

 

[Guest]

Mcdonalds upsells.

 

[J Scott W]

Cleaning should be cleaning. It should include all the basic steps. Upsell to a higher level of cleaning such as a charge for vacuuming, prespray, agitation, or other aspects of the actually cleaning smacks of deceit, trickery, high pressure bait and switch.

Upsell of additional products of services is a necessary part of operating a profitable business. When the customer is pleased with the results and wants to add an additional room, get protector to keep it looking good longer, have the recliner and sofa cleaned and so forth are marks of a good technician who provided a good service and has a good rapport with the client.

No to high pressure and/or bait and switch. But yes to upselling additional services. These are worlds apart.

Scott Warrington

 

[Jack May]

Very nicely put Scott.

I used to offer 2 cleans. I dropped that and went with one because I hated walking away when I knew I could do better. On top of that, the ones that really need the extra can't afford it and the opposite, the ones that went the better clean honestly didn't need it most of the time.

On really bad ones, I ended up doing the better clean at the lower price bracket because I didn't feel right about saying that's the best I can do Maam.

I adjusted my prices and now we do the best we can everytime.

John

 

[harryhides]

I agree with Scott about the pressure selling but.....

We have customers that call us every six months or every year and they have good vacuum cleaners and actually use them.
Then we have customers who don't vacuum much and haven't had their carpets cleaned in years or worse have been doing it themselves.

The former is going to get better results for a lot less work than the latter.
Is it realistic to charge both the same price ?

Now if you charge everyone the same price you are punishing your best customers and rewarding your worst.
So how do avoid doing that, without some extra charges ?

 

[Jack May]

I hear ya Harry...

I price the majority of my CC work over the phone and by the room.

I ask a few questions before I give an ESTIMATE.

Are the rooms average sized?
Are they furnished or empty?
Are there any stain you need us to treat?

Those 3 simple questions will yeild a wealth of information not only in the simple replies but also in the way and attitude that they reply in.

By asking these first before I give my estimate, it forstalls any quick shots trying to knock down the price afterwards.

I never QUOTE a firm price but give an estimate based on what they said and my gut feeling got while talking to them. I usually give a range. I'll say something like
"Based on your description, for (list what they requested) averaged sized and basic treatment of that stain I estimate between $175-210."

I normally give myself about $30-40 movement and also stress that some stains will not move with basic treatment but I can advise likely result and cost IF they want me to attempt further work and that call is their's BEFORE we incur any cost.

About 95% of our work stays within that estimate. If it's not as they said it, then that is addressed PRIOR to startup. We walk before we have a problem if need be.

John

 

[Guest]

This is for my Friend HARRY HIDES>. its long.. so others scroll.. or choose to read and learn about Dobs.. makes no difference to me.. shake my hand...or kiss my ass.

harry.

about the ken snow post of mine..

and how i envision upsellng..

Its about mentioning those things prior.. ..not to their face and not putting the customer 'on the spot'.. thats UPSELLING as I am referring to it.

now if you are talking to them on the phone.. and mention
protector
do they need UPH or tile and grout cleaning?
To explain that if they move the furniture or prevac.. it CAN be less.

Thats NOT upselling.. but we know what upselling is.. in this industry.

just ask all my first time customers.. its pressure tactics..

I didnt say KEn used it... I merely, inquired. I think that Ken could double his prices.. and he's leaving money on the table.. but hey.. i couldnt begin to know numbers like KEN>>. And I admire his company.. wow.. what a history.
If he told me how they upsold.. and it was respectful.. then cool.

I know SS around here.. gives a cheap cleaning price.. mentions notta much about the other stuff.

Gets to the house.. gets in faces.. tries to sell protector,, UPH.. rugs. deodorization, etc..
and puts the customer on the spot.

its about no advance warning... pressure and intimidation.. and its intentional by many..

and to those that mention this stuff prior.. cool.. i dont see that as upselling,, morelike informing.. and there is a line that is pretty wide in the sand.

But when a company or tech arrives to do 3 areas.. for 99.00 and then talks about protector.. etc.. and it wasnt talked about prior. (unless they ask).. then I dont like to see that..

But thats me.. and I take this attitude.. as many many customers.. appreciate and comment on my bill being exactlyl what I quoted on the phone. I dont know how many new customers that WOWS...

They talk about ALL other companies.. pressure upselling to them on shortnotice.. and they way too often say YES>... for that reason.. when they want to say NO..

And harry.. i admit.. and i promise you.. .you or your best tech.. would look up to me on my WORST day.. unless its advanced uph work.
i'll step out of bed.. not brush my teeth.. give me 10 secs.. to open my eyes.. if i need that.. and i'll blow ya away..


I promise you that.. i'm that good. And make note.. i'm talking about carpet cleaning. not leather. upholstery, dye work.. just flat out methodology of cleaning.. tools.. getting results.

That other stuff is specialty work.. and I bow to you in upholstery.. and leather. you can have it.. i dont like to do those.. (i do uph.. when asked.. but its all blue collar stuff around here.. lucky me.. good for them)..
and I'm comfie in UPH.. but i get 'wood' when doing cc'ing. thats my passion.
Nothing else.. not VCT.. Not leather..
You can claim that title. iI'll make you a crown.. lol you and Lonnie can fight for it.. and i'll give the winner a standing ovation.

when you dont care about the money.. or numbers side... (i'm loaded for life dude.. ).. When its all about nothing short of quality.. its easy to be near the top..

I may not be the best.. but they are within sight..

I tell my buddy, college biz professor.. known all over the country.. he teaches biz stuff.. "If you could do it.. you wouldnt be in the classroom.. you'd be out living it''..

I say that to all of you office jockeys.. that love the biz side of things.. and think you are carpet cleaners.. when most are merely office managers of cc'ing companies.. (there is a HUGH difference).... You're mostly managers.. not cleaners (there ARE exceptions).. I'm talking in this thread.. about cleaning..
flat out getting down and dirty and getting it done at all costs..
Not answering the fooking fone.. scratching your nuts and watching soaps in between calls..

CLEANING.. in the FIELD>. on a daily BASIS..not just when a tech calls in sick or your behind. ..

You office jockeys.. are limited as to how good you can be.. because the fruits of your labors... are limited to the dimensions of 4 walls of an office or shop and a damn computer screen. And if you all take pride in having 2.4.8 of 32 vehicles.. So WHAT>. How good are your 32 vehicles.. not how much money do they make.
At the end of the damn day.. its not about numbers.. its about how good you are. your respect for being good from your peers.. even if they dont like your person.. and what your customers think.. as you 20x exceed their expectations.

The real work is in the fields.. out in the trenches.. sweating.. meeting the people.. shaking their hands.. and working for them.. not in techs.. employees driven.

An average owner operator will ALWAYS be better than a very good 'paid' tech. Its inherent. that tech will stay there until another .50 cents per hr comes a knockin'... trust me.

Atlteast as passionate O/o like me.

And I love you Harry.. i do.. but i'll debate with my methods.. and passion.. with anyone in the history of this field. You may tie me.. you wont beat me.. because I'll die for it. You won't.
And you wont put your work before God, family and friends.. I have and will continue to do such.
That will always be my advantage.. and always put anybody else that I've met to this day.. at a slight to large.. disadvantage.

And i'm not singling out anyone. I got respect for all.. and got NO bones to pick..

And if the money in the world just disappeared.. and we didnt get paid to do shit.. I promise you one thing. id go door to door.. and clean for free.. all day long.
I do it now.

I've donated about 200k in cleaning the past 6 years. working for free.. not getting paid and giving away.. not that type. you can do the math.. and not even the IRS says you have to charge.. its not illegal.
and that number will grow the next 6 years...

Its all about quality.. you'll NEVER meet anybody like me Harry.. when it comes to quality.. vs what I charge for it.

its all about being FAIR.. and seeing how good I can get.. and giving the fruits of my labor. to those that need it. my riches are in my quality of the things that i do.. thats my paycheck. my relationship with friends and family.

And thats just me.. not better or worse as a person.. but as a cleaner.. i'm top shelf.. and i dont mind saying it. Thats all. and there ARE alot of top shelf cleaners.

Dont push me my friend,, and I wont put a number in your loss column.
because i'll bet the house on it. Respectfully,

And when I put my methods to the classroom.. every instructor here now.. will want to sit in it.

Its will be about getting it done. not chemistry.. not heat.. not fibers..

flat out. real world.. how to get it done..

that other stuff is ok.. and has its place.. but its what I term ''filler bullshit'..

and my classroom.. will be in a companys schedule book ,, out in the field.. real world..

because cleaning takes place in the world.. not in the class room.

i'll end this.

A hugh handshake.. smile, high 5 and muchas love to you Amigo..

You know i love ya..
But i think you gotta bone to pick with me.

Its all good.. and as Jimmy once emailed to me.. ''its all fun behind the scenes'..

you be well. Nothing but the best to you my friend and your family and great country.

 

[Guest]

If you feel your customer will benefit from a product or service, it is acceptable. If you pressure them, don't do what you say then it is wrong.

Dave

 

[joey895]

"We have customers that call us every six months or every year and they have good vacuum cleaners and actually use them.
Then we have customers who don't vacuum much and haven't had their carpets cleaned in years or worse have been doing it themselves.

The former is going to get better results for a lot less work than the latter.
Is it realistic to charge both the same price ?

Now if you charge everyone the same price you are punishing your best customers and rewarding your worst.
So how do avoid doing that, without some extra charges ?"


I see your point but disagree. The customers who get it cleaned more often are going to cleaner,longer lasting, and healthier carpets, than the latter group.

With all that being said I don't see a problem with charging extra for a restoritive type cleaning for [/u]extremely soiled carpet. The only time that would be a possible situation for me would be excessive specialty spotting. For example a condo I cleaned last week had literally hundreds of paint spots I would have been there forever if I tried to get them all, which would be fine with me but they would have had to pay for it. Instead I talked with the owner about it and suggested and he agreed to me taking care of the more obvious spots in high visability areas at no extra charge.

 

[harryhides]

Hey Dobs, I love ya too but when you use strong words like "unthinkable"
you know I can't let that go. Anyway it made for an interesting discussion which is what this place is all about.

Keep in mind that probably you are the only person here that is "loaded for life" and doesn't need to charge for the cleaning they do but all of the people reading your posts which are coming from that position won't be able to relate.

 

[Rob Lyon]

Scott, THAT WAS AWESOME!!!
WELL SAID

 

[Dominick Cassano]

Re: Upsells

Upsells are a major part of this industry, be it legitimate or bait and switch. The difference is, those bait and switch companies advertise a low price with the intention of never honoring it, because if the customer doesn't accept the upsell, she gets the "spit n suck" for $19.00 and thats all she gets, period. Now, with a legitimate upsell, you've already secured a price for the cleaning end of the agreement before you started. Therefore, the upsell is nothing more than a non pressure option that you're presenting to the customer. It has no effect on the outcome of the original cleaning agreement. I think most customers appreciate options presented to them, if its done tactfully.

 

[JTaylor]

Hey Dob's

Are you talking about my 3 room special?
If so well sorry if my other post upset you, but I still don't think you are getting my point.
JT
PS Sorry if you think I was stepping on you toes, I wasn't

 

[Jim Williams]

Wow, I can't believe I just read that whole Dobs post.

To be quite honest,, I'm not much on upselling either,, and I don't like being upsold to,,,on the other hand if you are offering a dog owner protector so that the next time feefee barfs up a doggie treat with red dye it won't become permanent,,, I think you are then obviously looking after the customers best interest.

 

[hogjowl]

Unfortunately, there is no way to say what I am about to say without hurting feelings and making others angry. So be it.

I don't think I have ever heard a successful, multi-truck operator take a stand regarding up selling that is as restrictive as the one expressed by Scott W., and a couple of others. Invariably, it is always expressed by single, owner operators (like me, unfortunately) or past cleaners who couldn't make it, and have taken other jobs within the industry.

The unfortunate fact is, to really make the big money within our industry, you have to run lots of trucks. Sure, you can live well on 1 truck, but that's a whole other story that we all know the down sides of. To be successful at multi-truck operation you have to take on up selling. You have to be good at it, and you can't follow the IICRC guidelines.

Now, all you single operators and ex-cleaners tell me I'm wrong.

 

[cu]

I,ll disagree with you porky....only because i feel your right and i hate having respect for you...it,s to much for my small mind to handle

but i as a owner/operator i have to let my custys know the other services i offer ...cause someone is going to get paid for the job and i know i need the money . These services are other then rug sucking

for the rug sucking side i only have one price, bar red stain removal and stain shield and both i explain to the custy on the phone . This way i never feel like a "used car sales guy"...

do you guys feel it,s ok to tell the custy .that a tip is expected at the end of the job..........or should i stop telling them that......

 

[Steve Toburen]

I have to reluctantly state that my 'friendly competitor", Scott Warrington, did a great job on explaining "low pressure" upselling. And I ran my business the same way as John Middleton- after hacking our way through several options we cane up with the "one basic system for all jobs" idea. Everybody got the same "good as we could" cleaning.

In my opinion, it just gets too complicated for the average tech offering "levels" of cleaning. And even worse, we found that while customers would choose the lower priced cleaning option after the job was done they would be dissatisfied that it didn't look better. Therefore the one great base cleaning system.

Then we offered options IF they wanted them. Protector, extra rooms, upholstery, etc. Seldom got negative feedback and we made tons of Cheerleaders.

Steve Toburen CR
Director of Training
Jon-Don's Strategies for Success

PS How did we tactfully up-sell? I did up a Special Report for our SFS members on this. If anyone wants a copy e-mailed to them just drop me a note. stoburen@homefrontsuccess.com While the Report focuses on selling Scotchgard it obviously can be adapted to any protector or the principles used for selling anything in the residential environment.

 

[J Scott W]

SFS members on this. If anyone wants a copy e-mailed to them just drop me a note. [email="stoburen@homefrontsuccess.com" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

stoburen@homefrontsuccess.com[/email] While the Report focuses on selling Scotchgard it obviously can be adapted to any protector or the principles used for selling anything in the residential environment.

See how tactfully Steve did that upsell? The question asked for free information. Steve is now offering you Scotchguard.

Scott Warrington

 

[Steve Toburen]

Wow, Scott. Between you and Sutley I can't get away with anything ... EXCEPT that I personally don't sell anything for Jon-Don other than my humble thoughts. But thanks for thinking of me, buddy!

Steve

PS Actually, Jon-Don (and I assume Bridgepoint) carries both Scotchgard and DuPont Teflon. Doesn't matter to us which one you buy. However, I personally feel that due to:
a) Name recognition
b) Some probably undeserved bad press that Teflon has received lately and ...
c) Some great on-site marketing support that 3-M gives
Scotchgard is the way to go. Just my opinion.