Whats worse ???

[Guest]

Charging more for a heavily soiled carpet or convincing a customer that has clean carpet they need your 25 step mega priced package ?

 

[joe harper]

Does it Really matter..????

You are just..."BAITING"...for an answer....so you can "SWITCH"...the conversation... :wink:

 

[Derek]

the 1st COULD be B&S if a specific price was agreed upon beforehand.

the latter can NOT be B&S, because the price hasn't yet been agreed upon.

is it really that hard to figure out?

 

[Guest]

the 1st COULD be B&S if a specific price was agreed upon beforehand.

the latter can NOT be B&S, because the price hasn't yet been agreed upon.

is it really that hard to figure out?

This isnt a B&s question - this is an ethics question .

 

[joey895]

My question to those who charge extra for "heavy soiling" is simple, what do you do if the customer just wants the advertised price? Do you refuse the work (if you refuse to do the job then by defination you are bait and switch) or do you do the work and do a sub-standard job? Ethically I can see where you are justified with the second option but do you not have any concern over the reputation you'll develop for not being a good cleaner? When the customer has people over and they can tell the carpet was just cleaned but a crappy job was done, the customer is not going to say "well they told me I needed extra steps but I chose not to pay for them" so the person is just going to think you do crappy work. For that matter the customer themselves are just going to assume you do crap work and were trying to rip them off. In a huge market like Hotlanta it probably doesn't matter much but in smaller markets I could see where it would be a killer eventually.

Personally I've got to much pride to have my company name attached to a job that was not performed to the best of my abilities.

Legality

In the United States, courts have held that the purveyor using a bait and switch operation may be subject to a lawsuit by customers for false advertising, and can be sued for trademark infringement by competing manufacturers, retailers, and others who profit from the sale of the product used as bait. However, no cause of action will exist if the purveyor is capable of actually selling the goods advertised, but aggressively pushes a competing product.

Ps Just because a company is not legally performing B & S does not necessarily mean they are not coming very close to crossing an ethical line. The bold sentence is most of these types of companies out, as far as legalities are concerned.

 

[Guest]

My question to those who charge extra for "heavy soiling" is simple, what do you do if the customer just wants the advertised price? Do you refuse the work (if you refuse to do the job then by defination you are bait and switch) or do you do the work and do a sub-standard job? Ethically I can see where you are justified with the second option but do you not have any concern over the reputation you'll develop for not being a good cleaner? When the customer has people over and they can tell the carpet was just cleaned but a crappy job was done, the customer is not going to say "well they told me I needed extra steps but I chose not to pay for them" so the person is just going to think you do crappy work. For that matter the customer themselves are just going to assume you do crap work and were trying to rip them off. In a huge market like Hotlanta it probably doesn't matter much but in smaller markets I could see where it would be a killer eventually.

Personally I've got to much pride to have my company name attached to a job that was not performed to the best of my abilities.

Legality



In the United States, courts have held that the purveyor using a bait and switch operation may be subject to a lawsuit by customers for false advertising, and can be sued for trademark infringement by competing manufacturers, retailers, and others who profit from the sale of the product used as bait. However, no cause of action will exist if the purveyor is capable of actually selling the goods advertised, but aggressively pushes a competing product.

Ps Just because a company is not legally performing B & S does not necessarily mean they are not coming very close to crossing an ethical line. The bold sentence is most of these types of companies out, as far as legalities are concerned.

Geez , its not complicated . I have been cleaning 23 years with absolutely no problem . I live in an area with maybe 125,000 people , dont advertise , and exist mainly on referrals .

I clean most carpets at 35 per room - thats the starting point and its understood before I go out if its trashed I charge more . If they dont want to get it cleaned properly they can call Mr. 25 steps - most of them have been that route , ask the bottom line and hang up before he gets to step 2 . After one of them calls , they realize the real value they are getting - besides , again , most of my jobs are referrals so they already have an idea of what they can expect .

Most of the info with bait and switch involves a tech coming in with an outrageous 1st qoute that is usually haggled down until the customer is beaten into submission - is that pretty much the MO Mikey ???

 

[joe harper]

Charging more for a heavily soiled carpet or convincing a customer that has clean carpet they need your 25 step mega priced package ?

I will address the 1st part of the question....Yes we charge more for heavily soiled carpet..
it is more work..!!!

Here is our POLICY...If the customer does not wish to pay for the ADDITIONAL service
to allow us to clean the job to OUR STANDARDS...We have 2 options..

1. We will perform the additional services REQUIRED to complete the job properly...
The invoice is NOTED.."one time only" price..!!! next cleaning is FULL PRICE....

2. We explain to the customer...That we CANNOT do the job HALFWAY...and thank them
for the oppertunity to give them an estimate....and a kind "Ta Ta"...



OH..!

as to the 2nd part of your post.... :roll:

Coop, your are currently under my 50% RULE... :|
1/2 of the stuff you post are creditable......the other 1/2 ....is "BEST" just ignored... :wink:

 

[Guest]

if it looks like a duck walks like a duck and quacks like a duck

I just say subcontractor with a portable shows up CAVET EMPTOR

 

[Art Kelley]

Charging more for a heavily soiled carpet or convincing a customer that has clean carpet they need your 25 step mega priced package ?

There is only one result I will be happy with. I don't concern myself with the customer's expectations or input as they mostly (if they are new) don't know what is achievable. We can do great things and I do my best work on each job. It doesn't take 25 steps or a lot of extra time. You do your job exactly right each time or don't do it at all. Anyone who would offer to leave a carpet halfway cleaned for a reduced price deserves all the scorn he receives here or in the marketplace.

 

[-JB-]

IDGAS

 

[Newman]

There is only one result I will be happy with. I don't concern myself with the customer's expectations or input as they mostly (if they are new) don't know what is achievable. We can do great things and I do my best work on each job. It doesn't take 25 steps or a lot of extra time. You do your job exactly right each time or don't do it at all. Anyone who would offer to leave a carpet halfway cleaned for a reduced price deserves all the scorn he receives here or in the marketplace.

Well said sir.

 

[Mikey P]

Just about every carpet we clean get some furniture moved off it, All carpet get pre vacuumed until we feel satisfied we got most of the dry soil, then it gets a custom mixed prespray followed by any necessary agitation from a verity of scrubbing machines or brushes.
The carpet then gets rinsed/neutralized followed by a grooming to set the pile.
We charge .5O a foot to just about every home owner and haul ass with our dual wand machine.
Shit pits are .70 a foot. We rarely see those due to our good reputation.
Speed drying with an AP or 175/pad is some times charged for but usually thrown it.
Excessive furniture moving is charged for.
We don't charge for in the prespray "deoodrizers"
One or two Water Clawings are on the house while Clawing 12 gallons of urine is not.



You're barking up the wrong tree Cooper, like usual.


Stick to the Greenie bashing threads.


You suck at steering the cleaning pot.

 

[royalkid]

IDGAS

then STFU :mrgreen:

 

[randy]

Legality

In the United States, courts have held that the purveyor using a bait and switch operation may be subject to a lawsuit by customers for false advertising, and can be sued for trademark infringement by competing manufacturers, retailers, and others who profit from the sale of the product used as bait. However, no cause of action will exist if the purveyor is capable of actually selling the goods advertised, but aggressively pushes a competing product.

Prosecution of a service provider for consumer fraud by way of bait n switch is virtually non- existent. In a business were a service is being offered such as carpet cleaning there are just way too many variables from job to job. Bait n switch (which is actually legal in some States) is when advertising is run for a product that is not stocked or is stocked in such low volume (with no rain checks offered) that it is essentially unavailable. When the folks responding to the ad attempt to buy the product they are then shown higher priced goods without being given the option to purchase the advertised product. What is often referred to as Bait N switch carpet cleaning offers within our industry really isn't a crime anywhere, it's just a poor way to do business. The Greg Coles of our industry will always be around and can get by with what they do in areas of large transient , populations.

 

[DevilThomas]

Jez...Mikey..I want to be like you when I get big... $.70 sqft for shit pits... :shock:

Given I work the "rental" market...apts and houses...in a college town...70%+ of my work are shit pits ......"heavily soiled carpets" is kind of a giggle...

I Regularly "duo" process, and sometimes use every trick in the book to get a result I think is best.... I look at the "easy" ones as a bonus. For a "new" guy it has been great experience...I have learned to bring carpets DOA.... back to life.

I get .18 sqft...you get .70 sqft...hmmm...I detect a flaw in my marketing... :shock: I need to start moving into residential.... and raise my friggen prices!!!....

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Mr Cooper asks a valid question here.

I no longer have a cleaning company, and so what little cleaning I still do is for close family and friends, as well as rental properties that I own. If I get asked for a referral that is too far away or that I'm too busy for, I recommend customers or students that I feel do good work.

I sometimes get to see that work a few weeks after its done, or at least talk to the individual who had the cleaning done on the phone.

Its disappointing to find out that some (not all) "25 step cleaners" don't do all the steps (yes, there are people who watch and count whether you know it or not). I've also seen such "premium jobs" with dusty areas behind doors, along base boards, spots that the individual was able to get out with a gentle household spotter or that I got out easily with a neutral spotter, but that the cleaner said was a "permanent stain".

In other cases, the carpet resoiled rapidly, or I was told that it was wet for a day or two when it was guaranteed to be dry in an hour or two.

Most of these people didn't complain to the cleaner, but they did complain to me as the person who referred the cleaner. These types also complain to the carpet retailers and designers who refer cleaners who do not deliver on their promises.

And you wonder why some of these guys don't want to talk to cleaners who drop in with their wonderful offers of commissions for referred sales?

Where do such people go the next time? Do they go to someone who they hope will be a better "25 Step Premium Cleaner"? Not usually, at this point they see the "25 Steps" as an overpriced rip off. So instead they just call the "average Joe" cleaner who probably does about the same type of job, but at least charges "hack prices" for a "hack job".

Or they just clean the carpet themselves the next time; sadly, with similar results but only time and labor involved on their part.

So are such cleaners as bad as a "low price in and upsell company"? Perhaps. Perhaps worse. It depends on the services promised and implied, and to what degree those promises and implied hopes were broken.

The one thing I can say for sure is that they aren't delivering what they promise. You can call doing that whatever you want, but the name you'll have for it won't be a good one.

 

[Guest]

Just about every carpet we clean get some furniture moved off it, All carpet get pre vacuumed until we feel satisfied we got most of the dry soil, then it gets a custom mixed prespray followed by any necessary agitation from a verity of scrubbing machines or brushes.
The carpet then gets rinsed/neutralized followed by a grooming to set the pile.
We charge .5O a foot to just about every home owner and haul ass with our dual wand machine.
Shit pits are .70 a foot. We rarely see those due to our good reputation.
Speed drying with an AP or 175/pad is some times charged for but usually thrown it.
Excessive furniture moving is charged for.
We don't charge for in the prespray "deoodrizers"
One or two Water Clawings are on the house while Clawing 12 gallons of urine is not.



You're barking up the wrong tree Cooper, like usual.


Stick to the Greenie bashing threads.


You suck at steering the cleaning pot.

This aint a 20/20 news report - I just go by what you constantlytell , us , which is you dont clean dirty carpets , and you dont charge for heavily soiled ones - looks like you do both .

Again , getting back to the 25 steps , if you are doing them , why would you need to on a clean carpet ?? Aggitate a clean carpet for .50 sq ft. ?? Why introduce anything thats going to promote wear on a carpet that doesnt absolutely need it ???

 

[Mikey P]

Hey Coop,


Pull Nick out of your butt and realize that when I said I don't clean dirty carpet that I WAS JOKING!


JHFC, you are about the most humorless dude I've ever met on these boards.


But seeing who you choose to associate yourself with, it does not surprise me.


oh and...

followed by any necessary agitation

means that if the carpet was not impacted with some sort of soil, it does not get scrubbed.

 

[harryhides]

This issue will never be resolved to everyone's satisfaction because there are so many variables that are rarely or never discussed or factored in.

1/ Cost of living and cost of running a business vary a great deal and so naturally prices will "look" different when in fact they may not be.
2/ Types of soil and weather vary and so will methods, chems needed and also results.
3/ Filtration soiling in Houston, New Jersey or Beaumont TX will be quite different than in Wyoming - results will vary also as a result.
4/ Home and room sizes vary also from double wides to 10k square.
5/ Driving times for 3-5 jobs also vary tremendously ie cost of doing each job.
6/ "Heavy soiling" is a subjective term and means nothing unless there are pictures introduced into the discussion.
7/ Customer's opinions of the results of your "cleaning" abilities will also vary beyond belief depending on their previous experiences, color and age of carpet and whether or not they "liked" you.
I had a lazy & crappy Technician who constantly got high praise from our custys because he broke out into a sweat very easily and "looked" like he worked his ass of. How many times have you looked at a crappy (knee kicker) installed carpet only to be told by the customer what a wonderful job they did and how nice and friendly they were.
I was brought in by an Insurance Company to look at a stain that a B & S Company could not remove but who the customer "loved" as he was so friendly and who they called back every 6 months. Only when I demonstrated ( with a little water and bone spatula ) how much soap was being left in their stiff and crunchy carpet did they understand that their carpet was resoiling rapidly because of their crappy cleaner did they begin to doubt his expertise.


As usual Cooper is trying to stir the pot without reference to ALL of the facts.
I'm still waiting for Cooper to actually post some useful Technical info is response to a question with his 23 yrs worth of expertise.

 

[Mikey P]

I'm still waiting for Cooper to actually post some useful Technical info is response to a question with his 23 yrs worth of expertise.

You'll see Mars before that ever happens.

 

[The Preacher]

I'm still waiting for Cooper to actually post some useful Technical info is response to a question with his 23 yrs worth of expertise.

You'll see Mars before that ever happens.

actually Mars is pretty easy to see in the night sky, if you know where to look!!! :shock:

Coop on Dannys computer

 

[Mikey P]

How about... you see Nick learn to do a decent weld before that ever happens.

 

[Guest]

How about... you see Nick learn to do a decent weld before that ever happens.

Geez , should I apologize for trying to stir shit on Mikeys board ??


Just for the record , just what dance steps are involved when you quote your .50 standard price ??

 

[B&BGaryC]

With various bells and whistles if somebody wants everything a cleaning can come out to 95 cents a foot, in some special cases $110.00 a foot. I have tried and tried to tell some sweet old ladies that they don't need the 95cent cleaning, the 43cent cleaning will do. (Clean plus protect) They still wanted the fancy one so I still did it. I'm just afraid their neighbors and children will think I'm a con man.

Summary: If somebody doesn't need it I don't push to sell it.