WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU PUT AT LEAST $0.90 OF EVERY $1.00 IN YOUR POCKET

[Rob Fairfield]

Here is a video of our latest product. Polish Pro,the ULTIMATE crystallizer. This crystallizer requires no steel wool and is a very fast, efficient way to maintain the polish on marble, travertine, limestone and terrazzo floors. It's also a quick and efficient way to remove etch marks (water rings) from marble vanities or "POP" the shine on concrete counter tops.

While no crystallizer equals the color and reflective values that Diamond Renew, 5X or other powders do but it does have it's place in our industry. Commercially it is much more popular because its fast, quite, inexpensive, and public areas don't have to be closed down. Not offered residentially as much unless the customer can't afford powder polishing.

Chemical cost is less than $.01 per square foot. One man on a 175 machine can do 400 to 500 square feet an hour, a high speed burnisher can almost double the square footage. Add your labor and your total cost is nowhere close to $0.10 per square foot. Going rate for crystallizing should be $0.90 to $1.25 per square foot.

If you currently use Monkey, Spinergy, Twister or other pad systems and don't chemical polish at the end, try Polish Pro and see what happens.

Polish Pro has properties that harden the surface making it harder to damage and in most instances adds to the slip resistance.

Polish pro has also replaced the maintenance crystallizer in the process for polishing granite countertops.

Contact me if you have any questions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-77jAjCOPM

 

[clean image]

what diamond hone was the floors in video finished at?
How is the scratch resistance comared to diamond renu (greeen powder?)

how well does it work on a worn MTL surface
what is the PH of the liquid

Does it work better with hi speed, because the friction, heat generated over slow machine(175 mono), and does the 175 mono produce the same results, albiet slower?
So there is no wax in the product?

 

[Rob Fairfield]

The scratch resistance is much higher than the Diamond Renew but the polish isn't as high. Crystallization is an alternative maintenance polishing method. Both crystallizer and powders have their place in the industry. Both have advantages and disadvantages. Neither remove damage or do restoration. No polish our liquid does.

The floor was about a 600 grit when we did the video. The pH is 5.2. The is product builds a hard crystal on the surface of the stone by reacting with the calcium. It is not a coating or a wax. If it were a wax coating acids would not etch the stone, it wouldn't need to be sealed and you wouldn't be able to clean grout joints.

It does work faster under a hi speed because of heat being generated faster due to the friction but it doesn't work better. In fact, probably 8 out of every 10 customers using the product use a 175.

 

[clean image]

More questions,
How does it differ from a standard crystallizes, like Vmc 1 and 2 ( white and pink)
I know of some that use a regulator c with hair pad

Can you use after a powder polish to harden surface w/o sacrificing clarity/ gloss level, or will it further improve? Names travertine.

On travertine, especially with hi speed, have you notice it erode the fill causing dimpling, as traditional steel wool does?

 

[BLewis]

I just watched a you tube video a fellow carpet cleaner shared on Facebook. It was a video of an interview with Dr. Fred Houston. This is kinda scary stuff so which of your products actually use the crystallization products and which do not. Which category does the diamond REnew fall under? The stuff that Ron has been using lately.

I would have posted the you tube link but can't figure out how to do it from my phone.

 

[ted mcfadden]

Though Fred Hueston is a respected in the stone industry, the opinions that he discusses have to do with the over-use or rather abuse of crystallization products. This occurs mainly in commercial maintenance. I moderated and participated in a forum with Hueston and the David Bonoscera, the man that is interviewing him (in the video) in Vegas this past January and he stated his opinion again, but his stance has softened. He is most known for writing an anti-crystallization article in the late 1980s.

Scientific studies have been attempted to support the claims that crystallization closes the pores and degrades the surface. All of these studies have been inconclusive and none of the data has been made public so others can evaluate it. In fact a crystallized floor will stain with oil and water borne staining agents. If liquid can absorb in, then vapor can escape. Thus far only empirical, time lapsed, studies have been relied on to support these claims (no public data here either). Meaning, they track what happens to a floor over a period of time that is crystallized weekly or more often, and state their conclusions. The number of variables involved is too great to blame crystallizer on degradation of the stone on a Las Vegas marble lobby, but evidence does exist that prolonged persistent use (abuse) can strip minerals from veins and the surface, cause spalling and pitting over time, and leave a plasticky look. This can happen with polishing powders as well.

If used responsibly a single use of crystallizer in a residential situation will not provide long term damage. In fact it may provide a more durable polished surface. In commercial situations, responsible use means that the surface must be refinished from time to time to reduce the chances of surface damage and remove the crystallized "coating" that occurs with prolonged use. Repeated use must involve refinishing.

I don't use much crystallizer, now. But I started polishing marble in 1987. At that time, just about all there was available was crystallizer, 5X polishing powder, and pure oxalic acid. The only time that I've seen a problem with the use of crystallizer was on commercial floors. Over use of crystallizer can damage marble. And overuse of 5X can damage marble. All modern maintenance plans should employ some some type of mechanical means, i.e. refinishing.

 

[Rob Fairfield]

Clean Image's questions first, The Polish Pro is really a combination of not just VMC 1 and 2 but also 3.

Tech's use 1 and/or 2 based on the color and density of the marble as well as the experience of the tech using the product. 3 is used on to increase slip resistance and add sealant properties to the stone. They all are used with steel wool. The only time polishing pads or bonnets are used is buff residue left behind.

Polish pro works well on all marbles and travertines. It too increases slip resistance and has some sealant properties. In addition it hardens the floor increasing scratch resistance. Because Polish Pro requires no steel wool there is no sweeping or vacuuming after polishing and you can use high speed burnishers up to 3000 rpm's. Eliminating steel wool saves approximately saves approximately $0.10 per square foot. No mess to clean up and the ability to run up 3000 rpm's also saves time and money.

Polish Pro can be used after powder polishing. I don't believe the polish will be better but it won't be worse. There would be no real advantage in doing both. If slip resistance and/or hardness are priorities then it would be better to go higher with the mechanical polish then use the Polish Pro.

Polish Pro excels on serpentine's and travertines, other limestone's, terrazzo and concrete. I have not seen it change the surface on anything. In fact its polish looks much more natural than the traditional crystallizers.
Thanks Carl.

OK Bill, I have seen that video as well. Fred Houston has been slamming crystallization for at least 15 years. Even though he has admitted to using the method. I think he made the decision at some point to take this crusade against crystallizing to the point he can't back off. The fact is, crystallization has been part of the maintenance industry for dozens of years and will continue to be. It has its advantages and disadvantages and its place in our industry. As does powder polishing. Both methods damage stone when over done. When the maintenance is done correctly both do specific jobs.

I have heard over and over that crystallizer is a wax and when applied the stone is no longer permeable (can't breath and traps moisture). If this were true here are the questions nobody has been able to answer.
1. Why does the stone still react with acids after being crystallized?
2. Why does the stone still need to be sealed after crystallization?
3. Why are we able to still clean grout after crystallizing?
If it were a wax or a coating not allowing it to breath then acid and other spills would not etch or stain it. Right? If it were a wax, wouldn't the dirt and grime become emulsified in the wax or trapped under the coating making it impossible to clean?

As I said, both crystallizing and powder polishing are valuable maintenance methods in our industry. If you do only one you loose out on a very large segment of clientele. Commercially crystallizing is the preferred polishing method over 90% of the time. Why? It is quick, quite, and more affordable. It gives an incredible "WOW" factor as you walk and look forward but not when you look directly down in to the damage. It increases slip resistance and hardness. All important factors in malls, banks, hotels, casino's, airports, stadiums, etc. Not so much in residential settings.

Home owners don't look forward, they look down. The high quality in reflection detail and color that powders offer can not be accomplished with crystallizers. The abrasive, in different forms depending on the type of powder, removes the micro scratches left behind from the mechanical polish. This accompanied with the hotter acids give you that "POP" you've heard about in this forum. Color, clarity and shine is what matters most to Mrs. Smith.

I could give you a list of anti powder "EXPERTS" just as large as the anti crystallizer "EXPERTS". I believe their bias for one or the other comes from an agenda of some kind or just trying to act or sound smarter then the other "EXPERTS" My job is not to be bias or teach from an agenda. My job is to educate on all methods so that you can decide which one works best for you in whatever scenario you find your self in. Me limiting your decision making process limits your ability to succeed. I do not make a dime from thirty to forty hours a month I spend teaching, demoing, or participating in round-tables and seminars. Most "Experts" train to fill their pockets, what happens after you leave is an after thought. Ted Mcfadden and Cameron Dimille are the exception. These two and the few others that give you the tools, all of them, give you great opportunities. Those that teach one way "Their way" and deface all others offer What?

Powder Polish (5X and Diamond Renew) advantages:
better clarity
better color
removes micro scratches
can be done when the surface is wet
"POP"

Powder Polish (5X and Diamond Renew) disadvantages:
More costly
more time and labor
need to use lots of water, extract and neutralize
three step, two man process

Crystallizer (Polish Pro) advantages:
fast
economical
inexpensive
quite
one step, one man process
hardness
slip resistance
"WOW" factor

Crystallizer (Polish Pro) disadvantages:
lower color
less clarity

There is nothing scary about either process Bill. They both are safe and do their job for the situations they are intended for.

Polish Pro and Marble Polish are crystallizers
5X and Diamond Renew are powder polishes.

I hope this help. Happy Easter everybody.

 

[Cameron DeMille]

Over using and abusing Crystallizer can damage surfaces, but so can over polishing with a compound like 5x and Diamond Renew. Crystallizer is used as a maintenance tool in commercial settings because it is fast, easy (theoretically) and a relatively non-thinking procedure and does not require a vacuum or additional equipment other than a single machine and spray bottle. The problem is people become lazy, or the training is done by 2nd, 3rd, 4th parties, passing it a long to the newest employee, etc. It's easy to over do, but not hard to do correctly. I crystallize 2-3 times a year. I personally don't care for it, but it certainly has it's place.

This is a little out of context, but worth mentioning. The stone in the video appears to be some sort of green marble, or serpentine. Serpentines don't polish well to begin with, and tend to be more on the granite side as far as refinishing and polishing. MB-20 granite polishing paste will work wonders on this stuff and can be used with a 175 rpm buffer and hog's hair pad after diamonds.

 

[Mikey P]

Rob and Ted..


you guys should be converting some of this stuff to article form for our Main Page



NicE!!!

 

[SamIam]

I love it very informative


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[Lars]

Robs class at hard rock tool was a great experience to see and learn this stuff in action. Hands on training, and testing all the different methods was awesome! It was a great chance to compare methods and see the results first hand. I highly recommend attending Robs class, it was very informative and he spent a full day with us! Provided breakfast and lunch, and did I mention the class was free!

thank you Rob for a great class!