Mikey P
Administrator
I needs to know..
who offers a powdered acid or neutral rinse?
- Thread starter Mikey P
- Start date
joeynbgky
Supportive Member
Lyman
Supportive Member
Extractifier from mike rowe, ph of 6.
Mikey P
Administrator
Mike Rowe the Dirty Jobs guy?
got some Magic Potion on the way
got some Magic Potion on the way
Mike Vernon makes one... http://www.hardballchemical.net/prod03.htm Not quite what you asked for but close.
Will Reed
Member
Magic Potion is alkaline. I do like the product though for a prespray as a Green Cleaner and as a rinse.
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
Bingo.
Pixie Powder is an acidic rinse, but as it is citric acid based, it will have.......... issues.
What's your issue with a liquid, Mike. A good hydroxyacetic acid based product with a true rinse aid surfactant will work fantastic.
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Mikey P
Administrator
I used the Hardball stuff years ago, I'm going to try again as well.
I need something other than a emulsifier for chem loaded carpets that I still have to use a high pH pre spray on.
I need something other than a emulsifier for chem loaded carpets that I still have to use a high pH pre spray on.
Luis Gomez
Member
Zoom from SteamPros is 7.5 I used their products for a couple of years, good stuff until shipping cost got out of hand.
http://solutionsbysteampros.com/pages/indexFrameset.html
Luis
http://solutionsbysteampros.com/pages/indexFrameset.html
Luis
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Mikey P
Administrator
Shawn, what would you use to rinse out Enzall or Redline from carpets that have been neglected and left full of unknown cleaning agents?
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
In my position, I have to stay generic descriptive.
One that contains;
One that contains;
- An innocuous residue, no odor, yet effective pH corrector such as Hydroxyacetic acid.
- A true rinse-aid surfactant for coupling oil cutting surfactants to water, more effectively than water can, while leaving no "villainous" residue.
- Inclusion of an encap polymer would be nice, too.
Larry Cobb
Member
Mikey;
How about a water-soluble solvent to remove the oily surfactants,
in pure RO water.
Larry
How about a water-soluble solvent to remove the oily surfactants,
in pure RO water.
Larry
Mikey P
Administrator
somebody asked me why a powder in a PM..
since I can't drive to a store and have to pay shipping, I really don't want to pay for water.
because we use high flow systems and great wading technique I don't think I need to be as choosy about a rinse as a low flow porty hack would need to be..
since I can't drive to a store and have to pay shipping, I really don't want to pay for water.
because we use high flow systems and great wading technique I don't think I need to be as choosy about a rinse as a low flow porty hack would need to be..
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
Sometimes water is a practical necessity.
An example....
If a product were to contain certain acids in powder form without a diluent, the product would not only be hazardous to ship (expensive), but hazardous for the users to handle. Of course, you can select a different acid that is safe in powder form, but it may not work at all, or has other performance issues requiring huge amounts (again expensive)....all to incist it be a powder.
A product should not be judged on the price per kilogram, but the overall cost to use, which includes labor, shipping, and performance to retain customers. A product that sufferes performance deficits often require additional labor expense and time to yield satisfactory results, more than negating petty considerations that seem worthy, but it is not.
Does a butcher buy his knife at the 99 cent store, or does he require a quality knife that stays sharper longer? What is the value of labor that ensues when always using a dull knife?
An example....
If a product were to contain certain acids in powder form without a diluent, the product would not only be hazardous to ship (expensive), but hazardous for the users to handle. Of course, you can select a different acid that is safe in powder form, but it may not work at all, or has other performance issues requiring huge amounts (again expensive)....all to incist it be a powder.
A product should not be judged on the price per kilogram, but the overall cost to use, which includes labor, shipping, and performance to retain customers. A product that sufferes performance deficits often require additional labor expense and time to yield satisfactory results, more than negating petty considerations that seem worthy, but it is not.
Does a butcher buy his knife at the 99 cent store, or does he require a quality knife that stays sharper longer? What is the value of labor that ensues when always using a dull knife?
Mikey P
Administrator
lets assume that call backs are not an issue, nor is customer retention.
How would a Well Formulated rinse reduce my labor costs?
less cleaning or drying wand strokes?
less post spotting? we do very little now
less pre scrubbing needed?
How would a Well Formulated rinse reduce my labor costs?
less cleaning or drying wand strokes?
less post spotting? we do very little now
less pre scrubbing needed?
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
Presuming we are limiting the discussion to acidic rinses.One that really works requires a user to use less rinsing water means fewer or faster wet strokes, less time.
Figure your labor, you will be astounded how much labor costs per square foot versus the difference between a cheap, non performing chemical regimen and a pricier one that works. You will find that chemical cost difference to be a fraction of that which is represented by the labor cost difference.
Figure your labor, you will be astounded how much labor costs per square foot versus the difference between a cheap, non performing chemical regimen and a pricier one that works. You will find that chemical cost difference to be a fraction of that which is represented by the labor cost difference.
Mikey P
Administrator
astounded?
no matter what we are cleaning, one to two wet strokes will be performed as well as at least two dry strokes.
what could possibly astound me Shawn?
no matter what we are cleaning, one to two wet strokes will be performed as well as at least two dry strokes.
what could possibly astound me Shawn?
I remember a couple years ago when people were pushing Shawn to give up a name for one of those acid rinses.
Well I remember and he said CLEAR WATER RINSE by Hydramaster was a good one.
In fact a another guru carpet cleaner out of Lincoln Nebraska by the name of DIRK WINGROVE uses this product.
And for a nuetral powdered emulsifier I would suggest FIBER PLUS by bridgepoint.
Well I remember and he said CLEAR WATER RINSE by Hydramaster was a good one.
In fact a another guru carpet cleaner out of Lincoln Nebraska by the name of DIRK WINGROVE uses this product.
And for a nuetral powdered emulsifier I would suggest FIBER PLUS by bridgepoint.
FredC
Village Idiot
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2011
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Off topic post moved....please continue here:
http://mikeysboard.com/forum/showthread.php?267802-Girl-Fight!!!!!!!!
http://mikeysboard.com/forum/showthread.php?267802-Girl-Fight!!!!!!!!
doylebloss
Supportive Member
Mike - some companies used to sell a powder acid that contained powder phosphoric acid. The harshness of using phosphoric in a powder state and shipping regulations likely eliminated those from the marketplace, although I know a formulator in the UK who still makes one. but that is not going to do you much good.
Although sometimes it is splitting hairs, there are subtle differences in acid rinse detergents and acid neutralizing rinses. Shawn Forsythe, as usual, is spot on in his description.
The original textile rinses were simply acid neutralizing rinses designed to neutralize alkaline prespray residues and prevent browning. As a general rule, they did not contain any surfactants/detergents. They were also used as dye and color stabilizers in rug and fabric cleaning. I know many rug cleaners who still insist on a detergent free acid rinse. We make a product called RinseOut that fits this description.
ClearWater Rinse, which was previously referred to, is an acid rinse that does contain a detergent. I can make several theoretical statements about how that can make the wand easier to use across the carpet and would increase productivity, I think that judgement would be better left in the hands of the actual user. What I can tell you is that in my opinion, having detergent in your acid rinse has several advantages over textile rinses when cleaning installed carpeting. When the spray from your wand under pressure is injected into the carpet, it is always going to reach areas deep in the carpeting that your prespray does not get to. Having the detergent will help to remove this deeply embedded soil. Tests show a higher level of soil removal with a detergent rinse than a textile rinse in carpeting. My opinion is the same as that of Shawn's in that I believe hydroxyacetic acid has a superior performance to oxalic or glycolic acid when used in the acid detergent rinse formula.
In the end, the "measured" differences between a textile rinse and an acid detergent rinse are small. Both will neutralize residues, help prevent browning, and probably most importantly, leave a nice soft feel to the carpet for your customer.
Although sometimes it is splitting hairs, there are subtle differences in acid rinse detergents and acid neutralizing rinses. Shawn Forsythe, as usual, is spot on in his description.
The original textile rinses were simply acid neutralizing rinses designed to neutralize alkaline prespray residues and prevent browning. As a general rule, they did not contain any surfactants/detergents. They were also used as dye and color stabilizers in rug and fabric cleaning. I know many rug cleaners who still insist on a detergent free acid rinse. We make a product called RinseOut that fits this description.
ClearWater Rinse, which was previously referred to, is an acid rinse that does contain a detergent. I can make several theoretical statements about how that can make the wand easier to use across the carpet and would increase productivity, I think that judgement would be better left in the hands of the actual user. What I can tell you is that in my opinion, having detergent in your acid rinse has several advantages over textile rinses when cleaning installed carpeting. When the spray from your wand under pressure is injected into the carpet, it is always going to reach areas deep in the carpeting that your prespray does not get to. Having the detergent will help to remove this deeply embedded soil. Tests show a higher level of soil removal with a detergent rinse than a textile rinse in carpeting. My opinion is the same as that of Shawn's in that I believe hydroxyacetic acid has a superior performance to oxalic or glycolic acid when used in the acid detergent rinse formula.
In the end, the "measured" differences between a textile rinse and an acid detergent rinse are small. Both will neutralize residues, help prevent browning, and probably most importantly, leave a nice soft feel to the carpet for your customer.
Mikey P
Administrator
So you would not recommend CWR for natural upholstery fabric?
doylebloss
Supportive Member
I don't think the detergent is going to have much of an effect when cleaning upholstery, but there is certainly nothing wrong with it. I would likely use ClearWater Rinse on Upholstery too. Since so many cleaners have longed use their "textile rinse" on upholstery, I think it is a thing of more of what they are used to than any objection to the idea of an added detergent
Lisa Wagner is one of the rug folks who have at least in the past been pretty adament about not using detergent in an acid rinse on rugs.
Lisa Wagner is one of the rug folks who have at least in the past been pretty adament about not using detergent in an acid rinse on rugs.
Mikey P
Administrator
I'm not sure I would trust the opinion of somebody willing to cuddle up with Dusty the Rug Weevil.
I'm really looking forward to testing the CWR sample Doyle, thank you very much for sending some out?
If I don't care for it can I sell the rest of the 50 gallon drum to Marty?
I'm really looking forward to testing the CWR sample Doyle, thank you very much for sending some out?
If I don't care for it can I sell the rest of the 50 gallon drum to Marty?
If you'd like a more concentrated liquid... Try this: http://encapstore.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=19
Or this: http://encapstore.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=7
Besides, if shipping cost is an issue any www.EncapStore.com order over $100 gets 1/2 off the UPS charges until Friday...
Or this: http://encapstore.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=7
Besides, if shipping cost is an issue any www.EncapStore.com order over $100 gets 1/2 off the UPS charges until Friday...
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Mikey P
Administrator
Can we get back to this question?
I'm going to be hard pressed to convince that a rinse of any sort would ever reduce labor costs unless you were the type of cleaner who does not pre spray the entire carpet and rely on some cleaning action to clean lightly soiled areas..
Homie don't play dat.
Blue Monarch
Supportive Member
I love Clear Water Rinse. Smells awesome, leaves carpet nice 'n soft and keeps my brass clean as a whistle.
But....now that it is "CleanMasters" Clear Water Rinse , the directions say to use twice as much. Someone explain this to me. Kinda ticks me off.
But....now that it is "CleanMasters" Clear Water Rinse , the directions say to use twice as much. Someone explain this to me. Kinda ticks me off.
Shawn Forsythe
RIP
Dirk,
We have had but one problem selling people on CWW. The price per gallon. It didn't matter that it was twice as concentrated as all of the competitors. People just chose not to understand.
When HM reformulated with an encap, they also decided to match the concentration with the competition, hence making users raise their "dosage". However, with that change came an expected side effect, the price per gallon dropped tremendously. It's whacky, but now everybody else is willing to try the product now that it is "more competitively priced" .
It goes straight to earlier point. Many people can't look past the price per ounce, to compare the cost per square foot (which is the far more important characteristic).
Blue Monarch
Supportive Member
So now it's more expensive in the RTU form.....super awesome
Mikey P
Administrator
Taf called me today.
He questioned what I wanted out of a "high end" rinse to compliment my regular detergent rinse and had his on-site chemist make up something special for me to test.
Powdered, no odor, 6.5 pH, non corrosive with cleaning action
and I have some CWR coming as well.
He questioned what I wanted out of a "high end" rinse to compliment my regular detergent rinse and had his on-site chemist make up something special for me to test.
Powdered, no odor, 6.5 pH, non corrosive with cleaning action
and I have some CWR coming as well.
juniorc82
Supportive Member
I think procyon does what your looking for. I think it removes residue and still has some cleaning power in a powder form
