Who's the most expensive

[Ron Werner]

Daniel, remember, they were concerned about pet hair and allergens. I'm not going to just "knock it off in 2 hours" and tell them I got it clean. That was a 1000sf + of carpet plus 2 staircases.

If they would have told me they just wanted a basic clean, sure. I've done that on a move out, just presprayed- rinsed, but that was what the client told me they wanted. These clients wanted more than that but at budget price. Clients tell me they are concerned about allergens, I'm going to take my time vacuuming, not waste it but not rushing it either, prespray and scrub it in, and give it a good rinse. With tenants moving in the next day I'd have the airpath in there as well. Plus taking the time for corner guards that are a PITA because they never stay put, blankets to protect the laminate, all things that take time to set up.

I also gave them my price ahead of time, so they could have figured it out. They knew the areas, I didn't.

Even if I was going to "knock it off", is 25cents/sf a decent rate for 2010? I was charging that 10yrs ago, hec, the guy I bought my Big Red from was charging 20 in 1980's. Without vacuuming, giving it a "good" steam cleaning only, 40 cents is reasonable these days, esp in my market where houses are still $400-500K PLUS. A $100 doesn't go far. As you've heard over and over, got to know your costs and what you need to make to turn that TM on.
They might have been peaved about my price but if I would have had to drive 30 min to get there (this place was basically on my way home, 3 min out of my way) I would have been peaved that they would waste my time like that.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Ron you are right about wanting to get a higher price. A thousand sq ft is just two 300 sq ft rooms and two 200 sq ft bedrooms. That is 4 rooms and two sets of steps. Just do what you feel is right and that is all that matters. I just see you lost two great oportunities this week alone from having a high price. That tells me you need to hook up with a porty hack and sub jobs out at 50 percent. Let the customer know what they could have had while still making some money. I have a decent middle of the road cleaning business. I thought about staring another budget cleaning service and subing jobs out. Then I thought why not start a high end business and charge 50 cents a foot and still keep my business the way it is now. So basically I would get the best of both.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Don't always get these prices.
Did a quote today, was supposed to be cleaning it, till they saw the price. I had given them my price via an email and they said "come on". All they said was there was a couple of flights of stairs, 4 bedrooms and a loft. Well, I measure it all up, 1011sf plus 13stairs in one flight and 14 in another, at 55/sf and $5/stair, that worked out to $691.05. They are also worried about dog and cat hair and getting it clean ie allergies because the new tenants have sensitivities.

Well, they choked, big time. They figured it would be $200-250. He just handed me my quote and told me he has other contacts.

So basically the job was four rooms, a hallway/loft and two sets of stairs. It's not like they were looking for a Greg Cole whole house 89 dollar special. 700 dollars is just plain price gouging for a job like that. Ron I remember when Steve Marsh tried to sell me his marketing package. He told me he was getting 60 cents a foot for mostly a basic cleaning. I also realized he was cleaning in Silicon Valley. If I charged those prices I would do 1-2 jobs a month. I also realized this was a rental. You said they would have tennants. No landlord will ever pay those prices. Ron I think you should get a helper and model your business like Mikey's. I hear he gets .50 cents a foot, but I bet he would have done the job for 350 and dual wanded it in 60 minutes flat. Do that 3-4 times a day five days a week and you will be a millionare in a few years. Really I wish I had the balls to tell someone 700 to clean 6 areas and a hall. I actually believe I could convince some people to pay that.

 

[Ron Werner]

So basically the job was four rooms, a hallway/loft and two sets of stairs. It's not like they were looking for a Greg Cole whole house 89 dollar special. 700 dollars is just plain price gouging for a job like that. Ron I remember when Steve Marsh tried to sell me his marketing package. He told me he was getting 60 cents a foot for mostly a basic cleaning. I also realized he was cleaning in Silicon Valley. If I charged those prices I would do 1-2 jobs a month. I also realized this was a rental. You said they would have tennants. No landlord will ever pay those prices. Ron I think you should get a helper and model your business like Mikey's. I hear he gets .50 cents a foot, but I bet he would have done the job for 350 and dual wanded it in 60 minutes flat. Do that 3-4 times a day five days a week and you will be a millionare in a few years. Really I wish I had the balls to tell someone 700 to clean 6 areas and a hall. I actually believe I could convince some people to pay that.

You can call it price gouging but it could have been 2 rooms and stairs, 1000sf is a 1000sf, at 300sf/hr is 3hrs work.
Its not a trash rental, its a 2 yr old house worth over $400,000. Sure, Mike could have dual wanded it, but Mike wasn't there. No one on the island dual wands. $200 to clean the way they wanted was unrealistic. $200 to give it a quick clean is reasonable. I don't do quick cleans.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Vacant would have been 20% less, knock off another $100.00 we would have done it for $400.00

 

[Greg Cole]

So basically the job was four rooms, a hallway/loft and two sets of stairs. It's not like they were looking for a Greg Cole whole house 89 dollar special. 700 dollars is just plain price gouging for a job like that. Ron I remember when Steve Marsh tried to sell me his marketing package. He told me he was getting 60 cents a foot for mostly a basic cleaning. I also realized he was cleaning in Silicon Valley. If I charged those prices I would do 1-2 jobs a month. I also realized this was a rental. You said they would have tennants. No landlord will ever pay those prices. Ron I think you should get a helper and model your business like Mikey's. I hear he gets .50 cents a foot, but I bet he would have done the job for 350 and dual wanded it in 60 minutes flat. Do that 3-4 times a day five days a week and you will be a millionare in a few years. Really I wish I had the balls to tell someone 700 to clean 6 areas and a hall. I actually believe I could convince some people to pay that.

You can call it price gouging but it could have been 2 rooms and stairs, 1000sf is a 1000sf, at 300sf/hr is 3hrs work.
Its not a trash rental, its a 2 yr old house worth over $400,000. Sure, Mike could have dual wanded it, but Mike wasn't there. No one on the island dual wands. $200 to clean the way they wanted was unrealistic. $200 to give it a quick clean is reasonable. I don't do quick cleans.

All I have to say on this matter is: People charging this amount to clean 4 rooms is precisely why I do discount carpet cleaning. It is ripping customers off. Plain and simple. 300sf per hour is insanely slow. 500-700 is average for a 40+ old carpet cleaner. Justify it however you want but I think you gouged and got turned down. That is the reason coupon companies like mine thrive- they get this really high quotes and think "there's got to be a cheaper alternative"Just my opinion.....

 

[Desk Jockey]

Greg that is just your opinion though, my customers are not they type that clip coupons.

They are willing to pay more for the security in knowing who they are dealing with and the comfort knowing that they are going to be satisfied with the results.

If you pulled out a porty on them or tried to dryclean Berber they would toss you out of their house.
:shock:

Their are distinct market levels and we are in a different one than you. Not a problem you satisfy a need in your market as we do in ours, but I don't think my customers would be happy with the level of service your contractors provide anymore than your customers would be happy with the rate we charge.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Greg that is just your opinion though, my customers are not they type that clip coupons.

They are willing to pay more for the security in knowing who they are dealing with and the comfort knowing that they are going to be satisfied with the results.

If you pulled out a porty on them or tried to dryclean Berber they would toss you out of their house.
:shock:

Their are distinct market levels and we are in a different one than you. Not a problem you satisfy a need in your market as we do in ours, but I don't think my customers would be happy with the level of service your contractors provide anymore than your customers would be happy with the rate we charge.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I thinks Ron's idea of a high end cleaner is backwards. He bases his price on the fact that he is going to get more soil out of the carpet than anyone else. That is fine, but I think he would be better getting the same amount of dirt out as anyone esle and promoting the fact that the owner is personally doing all the work, they can trust him in their home, he uses quality equipment, no sub contrators, has years of experience, uses safe cleaners, etc and not that he is going to vacuum all day.

I have found people care more about having someone they can trust in their home than they do about the actual cleaning. My friend is still hacking carpets out with a 175 and a couple ounces of shampoo but he is making more money than most on this board. No advertising, he works out of his car, and uses maybe two gallons of chemical per month. People love him and trust him though and that is because of his personality. You got to make people smile and have a good time.

 

[bonesheal]

My first thought was that this conversation might be affected by the exchange rate, but a Canadian dollar is worth 97c in the US.

 

[Ron Werner]

All I have to say on this matter is: People charging this amount to clean 4 rooms is precisely why I do discount carpet cleaning. It is ripping customers off. Plain and simple. 300sf per hour is insanely slow. 500-700 is average for a 40+ old carpet cleaner. Justify it however you want but I think you gouged and got turned down. That is the reason coupon companies like mine thrive- they get this really high quotes and think "there's got to be a cheaper alternative"Just my opinion.....

You give people what they want. I give people what they want. Cleaning at 300sf/hr is a good pace for the equipment. A wand is only going to do so much at a given rate. Pull it fast, it cleans less, pull it slower, get better performance. I've demonstrated that over and over and over. Your clients are happy with your service. Mine have had the 700sf/hr cleaners and want someone better because the carpet resoiled too quickly.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I thinks Ron's idea of a high end cleaner is backwards. He bases his price on the fact that he is going to get more soil out of the carpet than anyone else. That is fine, but I think he would be better getting the same amount of dirt out as anyone esle and promoting the fact that the owner is personally doing all the work, they can trust him in their home, he uses quality equipment, no sub contrators, has years of experience, uses safe cleaners, etc and not that he is going to vacuum all day.

I have found people care more about having someone they can trust in their home than they do about the actual cleaning. My friend is still hacking carpets out with a 175 and a couple ounces of shampoo but he is making more money than most on this board. No advertising, he works out of his car, and uses maybe two gallons of chemical per month. People love him and trust him though and that is because of his personality. You got to make people smile and have a good time.

Trust. Definitely! But its not all about the fact I'm removing more soil, though once they see what I've removed it does become a big factor. I have clients that call me because they can trust me to do a good job. I do promote the Owner/Operator benefit, which is to take the time necessary to do they job right.

Hacks always seem to make more. ANd maybe they do. But in the end, their clients are the ones being ripped off. I don't care where you live, you cannot "clean" 1000sf in 2 hrs. You can go over 1000sf in 1hr but you know its not cleaned, you know the client doesn't know any different. THAT's ripping people off.
You say I'm ripping people off at 55cents/sf??!! I earn every dollar, I give them EXACTLY what they hired me to provide: as clean a carpet as possible.
You charge them what.? 20cents if that? What do you give them Greg? 700sf in 1 hr!! Need to repost that vid of the worlds faster cleaner.

Seems carpet cleaners are the last to hear about "inflation". Cleaners were charging 20cents in 1980, thats 30 years ago! Why would anyone want to clean at 30 yr old prices??? If anyone is dragging this industry into the ground more and giving people more reason to switch to hard sfc its cleaners charging cheap prices and doing a half-assed job. If you know you could do better and don't, YOU'RE the one ripping people off.

 

[Ron Werner]

Vacant would have been 20% less, knock off another $100.00 we would have done it for $400.00

Still would have been too high for them. Twice what they had in mind.

Do you think you could have done your $400 job for $200?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Nope I vacant rate is the best we could have done for them. If they just wanted price I would have steered them to a cleaner who would give them a cheap price.

 

[Greg Cole]

All I have to say on this matter is: People charging this amount to clean 4 rooms is precisely why I do discount carpet cleaning. It is ripping customers off. Plain and simple. 300sf per hour is insanely slow. 500-700 is average for a 40+ old carpet cleaner. Justify it however you want but I think you gouged and got turned down. That is the reason coupon companies like mine thrive- they get this really high quotes and think "there's got to be a cheaper alternative"Just my opinion.....

You give people what they want. I give people what they want. Cleaning at 300sf/hr is a good pace for the equipment. A wand is only going to do so much at a given rate. Pull it fast, it cleans less, pull it slower, get better performance. I've demonstrated that over and over and over. Your clients are happy with your service. Mine have had the 700sf/hr cleaners and want someone better because the carpet resoiled too quickly.

Hacks always seem to make more. ANd maybe they do. But in the end, their clients are the ones being ripped off. I don't care where you live, you cannot "clean" 1000sf in 2 hrs. You can go over 1000sf in 1hr but you know its not cleaned, you know the client doesn't know any different. THAT's ripping people off.
You say I'm ripping people off at 55cents/sf??!! I earn every dollar, I give them EXACTLY what they hired me to provide: as clean a carpet as possible.
You charge them what.? 20cents if that? What do you give them Greg? 700sf in 1 hr!! Need to repost that vid of the worlds faster cleaner.

I believe in the IICRC philosophy of TACT..... TIME, AGITATION, CHEMICAL, TEMPERATURE! If you increase one- you should be able to decrease one. Therefore: if you use more agitation, better chemical or higher temperature- you should be able to clean equally as well in a shorter period of time! If you have to go slow to get the carpet clean - perhaps you are using inferior chemicals, inferiror equipment than the portys that many of my contractors use, or perhaps you need a new heat exchange? Competitive prices allow us to close more deals than we lose. If your superiror service allows you to close more deal- then Kudos to you! However, you were on here complaining that you didn't land the job. Am I missing something?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Since when did TACT become an iicrc philosophy? Ron's cleaning side by side with Greg's "roll the dice" contractor with any portable, any chemical, and twice the time would be no contest.

 

[joey895]

I believe in the IICRC philosophy of TACT..... TIME, AGITATION, CHEMICAL, TEMPERATURE! If you increase one- you should be able to decrease one.

This is great but I can't help but wonder which 3 of these are your guys using? They sure don't have Temperature with their portys. Based on your price and what you pay your guys I'm sure TIME is not on their side. Hmmmm, Agitation I guess MAYBE they use a grandi groomer to rake but I hardly call that increasing agitation. That leaves a NUCLEAR chemical.

Don't get me wrong I'm not bashing, I think companies like yours indirectly help companies like mine and I also think that you are serving a market and there is a need for both types of companies.

By the way if you can use 3 of the 4 components of Tact to do a good job, doesn't it stand to reason that if you use all 4 components you can do an even better job?

 

[Ryan]

If the customer is happy and stays happy does it matter how "clean" you really get the carpet? I'm not saying I do a bad job, but I spend about 10 min if that prevacing. To quote Shawn York "clean perceived is clean achieved". I'm doing this too make money, not get my rocks off too the fact that I'm the best cleaner that every typed a letter on the boards.

 

[Art Kelley]

If you have to go slow to get the carpet clean - perhaps you are using inferior chemicals, inferiror equipment than the portys that many of my contractors use, or perhaps you need a new heat exchange? ?

Cole's always got the answer. It's not the right one but it's an answer. Time to go dry clean some berber Greg, but not with those wonderful portys.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

To prove a point I cleaned three decent size homes today. The first one was about 1200 sq ft of carpet and 1 staircase. I spent an hour vacuuming (that is like an eternity to me) and the extraction took about an hour. The whole job from start to finish was 2 hours for 300. The carpet was clean and looked great. I really did not want to vacuum it, but the carpet was filthy so I vacuumed and added 50 dollars to the invoice. About halfway through the job three men in suits and ties came in and started taking photos. I had no clue who they were. I am not bragging but I spent the whole day Sunday detailing and cleaning my truck, 175, rx, hoses, and really had my van clean, organized, and beaming. One of the men asked me for a card so I gave him a few. He gave me one of his. Later I looked at the card and the title was vice president of a large bank. I am assuming the older man with him was the president. Go figure. You always need to be prepared and do the best job you can.

The job in the vids was my last job of the day. I thought it was pretty dirty. There was quite a bit of urine and staining in the carpet. Spray and suck with my awesome chems and the job took 2 hours. Another 275 to vac and clean. Like Brain Robison says it is all about what you make at the end of the day and more importantly what you keep. I don't need to spend all day doing a job that can be done in 2 hours. With a helper I could even save 30-45 minutes per job but I fired my last helper because he simply wasn't presentable. That is a different topic though.


j]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNGaz1NIjkAj]

j]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJfixG3gb2cj]

 

[amazingcleansc]

If the customer is happy and stays happy does it matter how "clean" you really get the carpet? I'm not saying I do a bad job, but I spend about 10 min if that prevacing. To quote Shawn York "clean perceived is clean achieved". I'm doing this too make money, not get my rocks off too the fact that I'm the best cleaner that every typed a letter on the boards.

Correct, But there is clean, and then there is CLEAN. I think encapping cut pile nylon with a crb looks really clean. I have yet to see the CRI gold certify an encapping product. I tell people I do the best job and then give them the best job, and I charge accordingly. I'm sick of compromising my quality for someone's budget.

 

[Ron Werner]

I'll preface this by saying I checked out Ron's hood and to an extent his higher prices are justified.......


Having said that......


Ron seems to go so far past the point of diminishing returns its retarded.
Ron charges what he should for his time but doesn't make the best use of it imho.....

Both seem to me to be a bit unfair to his customers....but hey....if they are happy so am I.


EDIT: My impression of Ron is based on my perception of his statements, vids, and website and may or may not be accurate.

You may be right about me. When I'm cleaning however, I'm not wasting any time, just moving at a good pace. I take the time I take and the time I need. I watch the wand and it move it fast enough/slow enough to make sure its getting a good rinse and extraction. Keep in mind, don't make the same mistake many do in watching my video. That was a restoration cleaning; they were renovating that room and it was a mess.

TACT? I give it a decent prespray, a good agitation, good time, and hot water. I make sure its rinsed well. If your guys are moving at such a great speed with strong chem, how well is the rinse? Good enough? At least the custy doesn't know any different. They'll get a year out of it and never realize what they've been walking on.

Good for you Daniel. I could vac 1000sf in an hour, if its not too soiled. But you steam cleaned it in 1 hr as well? Lets see, took one hour to move a vacuum over it, then set up the hoses, prespray, agitate, then rinse. So you either skipped steps or you moving that wand a hec of a lot faster than the vacuum.

As for complaining, it wasn't so much of a complaint as it was a comment about how not all people will book the most expensive and are looking for that lower priced service, which in most instances won't have the same quality. Its more of a heads up to some custies who say they are looking for a really good clean only to not want to pay for it. As I said, it would be interesting to ask a doctor if he could give his same service but for half the price in cash. They were looking at cleaning like a commodity, we're all the same and thus why pay more.

Another case in point. A friend was called by a client he cleaned for a year ago. Said he had 1600sf, so say 1000sf of carpet. In the end, he wanted my friend to match or beat the quote given by a house cleaner. She quoted the guy $135 to clean the whole house, carpets incl. NFW! Some people think carpet cleaning is the same no matter what the company, boy are they wrong.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Ron just keep doing what you feel is right. You are a good cleaner. I think everyone here wants to see you make a lot of money and keep contributing the way you have and always will. My time was off a little. The job I mentioned actually took closer to 2.5 hours. It took me about an hour and a half to steam clean the carpet and closer to 45 to vac. I wasn't timing myself or keeping track of the time. I never prescrub unless absolutely neccessary. Doing a good pre vac, using good chems, and cranking the heat up provides excellent results. I will gladly do a job for less if I know I am going to get numerous referrals from the client and I can still make my goal which is around 700 per day. Just think about it. If you knew you would get 10 jobs a year out of a client, you wouldn't discount your price to accomodate them? This is a very competitive business and you want people to say wow that guy did an amazing job and the price was fair. You don't want people to say that guy did an amazing job but man he is expensive. You just want get as many referrals imo. Remember just do what you feel is right and you will be fine.

 

[Greg Cole]

Since when did TACT become an iicrc philosophy? Ron's cleaning side by side with Greg's "roll the dice" contractor with any portable, any chemical, and twice the time would be no contest.

I am up to the challenge. Are you? We both clean a carpet and the "real customer' judges which is cleaner after. We also need to ask the customer if they want to pay $200 or $600! Also ask which is a greater value? You in?

Note: My idea of Value Added Service is much different than most in the industry!

 

[Ron Werner]

take one of my clients and one of yours, see if each can get the other to change their mind.
You talk to my client about the way you clean and how you feel its the best for them, and I'll talk to yours.
Of course if the person only has $200, or is cheap, I can show them a better way but it ain't likely they will pay the difference.
and given the choice, IF paying for the "Same" thing, why pay more. But its not the same so you might be surprised.



There's a big diff in mindset between talking to a client to charge them $100 for a house cleaning and charging them $300.

 

[Chris A]

I'm doing this too make money, not get my rocks off too the fact that I'm the best cleaner that every typed a letter on the boards.

Hey Ryan...

o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRxHHZEqwpwo]

 

[hogjowl]

I had another job just yesterday where the customer had two bull dogs that lived in the house. I cleaned 787 s.f. of carpet and it took me an hour to do what I thought was a proper vacuuming. I lost count of the number of times I emptied the dirt cup. I went over the carpet in two different directions in every room. Still, my TM filters got clogged up about 3/4 of the way through the job and had to be emptied.

I thought that I had priced it fairly high, but in the end, I only managed to make $82 per hour on that job. I could have done it the SS way and made over $100 an hour, and been out of there really fast, but I would have left the customer with all kinds of hidden crud in her carpet.

I just got to learn to price better.

 

[Desk Jockey]

1-man (or Porkchop in this case) right?

What's wrong with $82.00 an hour?

 

[hogjowl]

Sorry, thought I was on ICS.