Wickback from hell!!

[tim]

I have never had much of a problem with wickback until last week. I cleaned a trashed out, white nylon, low level looped carpet. I used highflow, high heat, and pulled out all stops on the prespray.I left the carpet dry to the touch with 3 airpaths and left. It looked amazing! I took before and after photos to put in the brag book.

Got a call back the next day, some of the spots were returning. I went back Tuesday and sure enough, some spots had wicked back some. No problem, I pulled out the OP, Tuway pads and the Releasit. I sprayed the spots generously, cleaned with the OP and left. Called her today and she asked us to come see it and see what we thought. Every place the tuway pad was turned brown! Treated with an acid, no change. Retreated with Releasit mixed 3 to 1, OP'd then treated with ARA. Dried for an hour with the AP's, had to continue to pad during the drying process to take off layers of wickback.

Looks to finally be gone, I will call again tommorow. Wont be anxious to do another one like that!

 

[Nate The Great]

I never seen white low level loop before. Who in the right mind would choose such a color and carpet?? :shock:

 

[tim]

A first for me too Nate, I hope I never see it again!

 

[Out of Character - 0]

You should have vacuumed for 3 hours in the 1st place

 

[pHilh]

Did you vacuum first??,sound like it could be full of deodorising powder??

 

[Greenie]

Any reason you didn't use cotton?

 

[lancehollister]

I have a problem with your serious prespray. Then a low level looped white carpet sounds improbable.

 

[Nate The Great]

If it was clean with Host method, it could be the wicking from that.

 

[joe harper]

JUTE BACKING..... :?:

 

[lancehollister]

Fibers dry from the bottom up. Any left over soils are pushed to the surface as it drys. The soil returning indicates poor cleaning or improper chemical use. Either way its on the tech.

 

[boazcan]

put some citric acid in with the releasit next to help eliminate browning.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

I have to admit I was skeptical at first, but scrubbing any loop pile is a must to pull the dirt out. The prespray doesn't have to be strong. Follow up with a good post pad for best results. One more thing. You mentioned it was white loop pile carpet. My cousin has off white wool berber and had it cleaned by a company that used a strong prespray and left it not saturated but slightly wet. Well the carpet turned brown and she has never called another company. I did convince her that good companies are out there if she was willing to do her homework.

 

[Ron Werner]

berber can be a real prick, vacuum the snot out of it, even then it can wick.
Best to flsuh the hec out of it sometimes with a stair tool

 

[tim]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I did prevac as we do on every job but it may have needed the Werner Special! Greenie, I went with Tuway because I wanted to go a little less aggressive, I switched to Glad Pads the last time and was able to keep the moisture down. I will try the Citric Acid next time, I stared at it on the shelf but decided to try just encap and ARA first.

Lance, obviously it was operator error, moron! Anytime we get wickback or resoil there is something we should have done differently. I used Extreme Clean with citrus and 40 vol, what would that have to do with wickback? The worst wickback was after I encapped it on the return trip. The cleaner was releasit and a damp tuway. I post on the board to benefit from the experience of others and share what I have learned with others. Not to pretend to know everything or hype the latest prespray. What was your suggestion? Oh yeah, nothing!

Flushing is an option but once you commit to flushing all the crap out of the pad, it can be a long journey. I opted to go with low moisture instead of adding more, stayed with 3 AP's going, used Releasit mixed 3 to 1, switched to Glad Pads and touched up with the OP during the drying process as a slight wickback would occur.

The customer called yesterday morning to say that it looked perfect and she was thrilled. She owns an upscale Real Estate Company so I really wanted to make her happy. She said the wickback has occured with every cleaner she has had so it has been a while since she has had it cleaned. She has already referred 3 people so I guess the work paid off. All is well that ends well but just about the time you think you have it all figured out, the job from hell is there to keep you grounded!

 

[ACE]

Encapsulation is a handy tool. I had a very similar situation with a Berber not too long ago.

 

[GeneMiller]

Tim,

I have a similar job that I clean 2 times a year. The entrance to the house always wicks. I clean it when I first arrive and then put a blower on it. Then I start the rest of the house. About half way through I go back and clean it again, it's always nice and brown. I finish the rest of the house and then clean it again on the way out. I leave the fan for 30 minutes and then leave. So far that is the only think that works. I have to do that every time or I have to return. Your right, jobs like that keep you honest. And yes, I vacuum the heck out of it before I start.

Gene

 

[tim]

Gene, nice to know it's not just me! We clean for a few years, go to SFS, get our Master Certs and get cocky then...job from hell! Sounds just like my job, 3 to 1 releasit, low moisture, lots of dry time with the AP and mist with ARA was the only solution. I would love to pull the carpet up and look at the pad and subfloor :shock:

 

[Willy P]

HOST it. You're welcome.

 

[frankiechocolate]

Hey tim. great entry. I know almost nothing so if I sound like an idiot, please bear with me. I'm here to learn okay?


I bid on a job, in fact, lately I've been bidding on a lot of jobs, commercial jobs with low nap olefin. tremendous wick back problems.

I talked to todd at pros choice and he said, vac, shampoo with prozime, rinse with Crystal rinse. so I did. I have no experience with this so I refilled my showerfeed three times for the small demo area. scrubbed the devil out of the two test areas. then tried to flush out all that chemical, had two force 9's blowing and bonnetted the area too.

I pushed my finger down in the fibers after the job was done and it was still very wet. I came back the next day and had mixed results. \

parts were clean as new. beautiful. right next to the clean were brown streaky parts.


Here's what I'm wondering. first off, would a pile lifter vacuum have helped.
they're two grand and I had one but it didn't seem to collect a lot of dirt. lots of agitation but I didn't see a lot of soil in the bag.


so, first pile lift.

second, less flooding, just maybe wet the carpets a med. amount, then scrub scrub scrub, then extract with my wand. I don't know if bonnets are worth is since I am really only hitting the tops of the fiber anyway.

I wondered if any of you guys have used the new studebaker fans that run at 40 mph and stand straight down over the carpets.

I don't have a lot of money but I do believe in buying the best eq. possible to do the job the best way.

I need some guidance.

thanks,

frankie chocolate

 

[ruff]

Tim,
In the future, try and post pad with one of the white cotton cleaners (what they used for Haitian cotton,) it's acidic and a reducing agent and works quite well. When dry, it will leave some white powder that will be easily vacuumed off.
I think it would have worked with this specific issue.
Ofer

 

[R W]

Had my first real wick backs last week, too. A custy called and said there was a large brown spot on her light blue/grey low level loop carpet. She had admitted that there were a few "soda" spills near the beds....probably full cans of soda. They have wicked back even though I flushed well. I'll be back with the pad machine next week to try to pull out more wicking.

The second was the cloth interior seat panels in a 1954 Chevy....original seats. The owner regularly cleans them with Dawn and water on a rag. He said they dried "splotchy". I've cleaned them before with no problem. He of course told me he had new foam installed recently, and I'm thinking that it might be the new foam.

Frustrating.....

 

[Ron Werner]

When I flush a spot, its not with the wand. I use either my PMF hand tool, which flushes a 3in width and gets almost all the water back, or I use my stair tool. With the smaller wand size the airflow just screams and its left almost dry, but with the water blasting into the carpet, I've found on berbers its all I need to to.

 

[-JB-]

Had my first real wick backs last week, too.

:shock:

SERIOUSLY? After 30 years? :shock:

 

[R W]

Had my first real wick backs last week, too.

:shock:

SERIOUSLY? After 30 years? :shock:

Well, no JB....it's been a while since I had to deal with any. It's just strange that I got 2 in a week. If I know a carpet is going to possibly wick back, I will warn the custy. Most wick backs come in trashed rentals, and the landlords are just happy to get them decently cleaned instead of replacing carpet. I've had my share of wickbacks, and anyone who HWE's and says they don't get any are not being honest, or the custy just doesn't call back. I just haven't had any for a while, and 2 in a week just seemed strange.

 

[Jimmy L]

Raise your prices and stay out of the lower class of cleaning.

 

[R W]

Raise your prices and stay out of the lower class of cleaning.

I've got too many customers with rentals that pay well, plus I do their personal houses. I do stay out of the "Ghetto".

 

[tim]

Good idea on the cotton pads, the 2nd time I encapped, I switched to the gladiator pads with great results. I forgot how much water those tuway pads hold. I do use the top drying Air Path fans from drieaz. I have 6 of them and they work great but I didnt dry it enough for this particular carpet. When I clean them again, I will definitely post pad and dry, dry, dry after encapping. This was a million dollar house, in Oklahoma that is a lot of house so it wasnt the slums. I will try my drimaster upholstery tool on one sometime to see how well it does, thanks for the tip!

 

[Greenie]

6 :shock:
where do you put them?

I'm trying ti visualize 6 airpaths in a standard rug sucking truck.

SHOULD call your company You've got it Dry!

 

[tim]

I have 3 old style, 3 new style. I carry 3 new ones all the time and add if I have really big houses! Dry to the touch is very big to us and time is money! 8)

 

[Ron Werner]

I will try my drimaster upholstery tool on one sometime to see how well it does, thanks for the tip!

It will work to flush the sfc but won't penetrate to wear the soil is coming from.