Xactimate

[tmdry]

Today is my first "official" day of using the program (27.5), and I must tell myself "why did I not do this earlier", same thought I had when I first got Service Monster 3 years ago. I actually thought that doing "my way" and saving the "bucks" was the way to go, but this is far more professional and once you get the hang of it, it's quicker. I have had an older price list so I always knew more or less how to charge, codes, etc, I have the "how to charge" down, but certain things have come up which I need your help.

We are on a large resi job 3 floors.

On the first 3-5 days we had 4-8 guys doing demo on wood floors (very time consuming due to being wet) and blown in foam insulation that has taken well over 4 days to remove by hand (only safe way). First what is the blown-in foam insulation removal code and or how do I make up for my costs as the "remove insulation" pricing is just too low considering the amount it has taken us plus the X amount of guys doing demo. So far we've emptied out 12 tons of debris, 4 trips to the dump in a 16 footer box truck (the dumpster companies here are all backed up).

Thanks for your time.

Bill

 

[dealtimeman]

We did one like this a few months back, I need to look over the file to see how we charged the insulation removal. I think we just added technician hours equal to the amount of hours used to remove the insulation and added line item info for dates and times so on and so forth. But I will check and let you know.


Did you go month to month or buy the whole year?

 

[tmdry]

Thanks Michael.

Also - I know there are the line items for single axle dump truck and dumpsters 1-11 tons, but when I click on the image on xactimate it looks like a 12 footer truck with low pay load. We didn't rent a roll in, just a 16 footer box truck, and filled to capacity...approximately 12 tons w/ 4 loads to dump. I don't have xactimate on this computer but I believe I put it the code for dumpster 5-7 tons x 2.

I did the monthly.

Thanks,
Bill

 

[SMRBAP]

INSBIM is what you are after. $1.40 psf

If that doesn't suit your needs money wise - you have to approach the adjuster and see if he will let you place WTRLAB which is doubtful, DMOLAB is what we have found as the more successful way when the line item itself doesn't cover your nut in a demo situation.

But it usually falls on how you support your need for going to a higher cost line item, and the adjuster.

The adjusters first question will be - why didn't you go to machine removal? Hand what was wet, machine remove what wasn't.

If they try to stick you with the lesser placed dumpster cost, let them know nothing was available, and it would have been a safety issue to leave it piled outside waiting for one to become available.

As far as more time on floor removal - another tough one - unless you can support it with more than because it was wet, it could be a tough sell to have DMO/LAB hours added.

Again - it all falls to the adjuster.

If they deny it all - don't let them wiggle from the BSC's come pay day.

 

[Desk Jockey]

When ever its odd ball crap that we won't come out good with "unit cost" we go "time & materials". You won't make a killing with "time & materials" but you won't lose you ass either.

 

[tmdry]

Thanks guys.

The ceiling insulation could only have been done by hand as there were heating pipes below the ceiling used to heat the hardwood floor above, anything stronger than a chisel would've broken the pipes, so it was very time consuming..@ $1.40 a sqft I'm below my labor costs. I will check w/ the adjuster as well.

Another question, the equipment has been on the job since last Monday the 9th due to the fact that we are not able to remove all the materials out at once or a few days in a row, as the home owner is micro-mangaging all the different people/companies, so we have to work around all the other companies schedules, and they are coming in moving the equipment or turning it off and forgetting to turn back on, plus the outside door(s) have stayed open for several hours during the day. Would you charge for 9 days of drying w/ knowing the adj would fight it and try to meet them @ 5-7 days? I was thinking if so, I'll still settle for 4-6 days, only thing is that most of our equipment is at the job and I have to keep going there to make its staying on plus close doors if they're open etc.

By the way Richard, we've decided to just stick to the mitigation on this one.

Thanks guys,
Bill

 

[dealtimeman]

Yes charge the nine days and settle for six. Do not charge for six then have to settle for 4 days.

Document, document, document everything with pictures and detailed notes. The adjuster will pressure you to only charge four or five days and even say he has never seen an invoice like yours, but do not fold. They might pay the whole thing, and that would be awesome. But if you have to negotiate and you start with the whole amount of days you were in there. You will have a couple of days of rental to bargain with.

Don't start the bargaining and burn yourself early, ask the adjuster what he wants and you counter with higher maybe a day or two later don't do it to quick. Adjusters are there to adjust and manipulate as much as possible don't let them mess with your head or you will loose.

You didn't do all this work for charity, you took all the risk and you did it to make a lot of money. Call me once you have spoken with the adjuster for the first time if you want. You can be surprised and they pay all days of rental and it is like Christmas.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I like mitigation best but if you have your ducks all in a row with good subs then I can see where Michael can do full service.

Something to remind the adjuster that helps validate the reason the equipment continued to be on site while the wet materials were being removed...MOLD.
It's money well spend hundreds rather than thousands later when there's a problem.

 

[Jeremy N]

We do build backs as well. I've been doing that since day one. We have our subs pretty owned out and make good money on certain build backs. We have learned what and who to stay away from much better than early on. Now in our 8th year we have learned a few things.

 

[SMRBAP]

On one hand, the customer wants to manage the job...... on the other, it's costing you efficiency.

I'd bill for 9. If the insurer balks, and extended dry times were not of our fault, it's the customers responsibility to fight the insurer to get paid, or to pay themselves. You have right to get paid, the insurer has right to decline payment - ultimately this falls on the custy, though it's up to you to decide.

In our contracts, it's very clearly stated, if anything out of our control that creates longer dry times, we make our best effort to have the insurer cover the costs, however they are responsible for anything the insurer doesn't cover. Dependent on circumstances, sometimes we press the bill, sometimes we forgive. We will not budge on this if it's rented equipment (not ours) in a structure.

I can't tell you how many times we are in a state of emergency where I need more gear than I have, and I have custy's that turn gear off to their convenience (it was loud and my kids couldn't watch barney) taking a 2-3 day dry, into a 5-7 day dry - when I needed to turn that job around fast to get another job dried without having to place rented gear elsewhere.

This is a big problem on commercial dry-outs. We usually figure that out with the adjuster/insurer day of job to get pre-approved for extended rental.

If you rent a car - you pay by the day whether or not you drive it. Time of possession, not use.

Again, it's a decision you have to make job by job based on the specific situations.

 

[tmdry]

Thanks guys for the feedback.

Day 10 tomorrow.

Most of the loss is dry, some subfloors will need to be removed, I marked the areas for the co doing the repairs, right now I'm focusing on the joists/frame, and subfloors from below, the companies are still in/out removing content, cabinet people, fireplace people, etc. The doors are staying somewhat closed.

I took pictures and videos of all rooms and levels, 3 videos, one per level, and the basement showing the complexity of the blown in foam insulation.

I went with the DMOLAB - 4 guys @ 8 hours for 4 days for the foam pita insulation.

My out of pocket cost on rental alone is roughly $2500-3000 right now, which is half of the equipment I have in there.

I've done a lot of rebuilds, but on this specific job, we decided we'll just stick to the mitigation.

Another quick questio(s),

How do I make a "half moon" shaped room sketch? I figure out the triangle shape, but I can't seem to figure out the half circle/moon shape on here.

Is there a line item for PODS? I just used WTRBID and put it in my out of pocket cost $425 out here.

Thank you,
Bill

 

[tmdry]

Thank you all for the responses.

I submitted my bill, and the Nationwide adjuster emailed me back saying Nationwide does not pay for after hours charge, just for after hours service call, so I had to adjust my line items, sent it back to her, and she cut me a check and it's in mail electronically now. That's the quickest I've gotten a check approved and mailed to me especially for my largest resi job I've done so far (and first time using Xactimate software sketch).

She was fine w/ both the monitoring hours (50 hours), and the DOMLAB that Anthony mentioned (thanks Anthony for that tip).

Thanks again,
Bill

 

[Desk Jockey]

Good deal for you.

Slam Bam Thank You Ma'am canbe a good thing....for mitigation any way!

 

[dealtimeman]

Boom! Money!

 

[Hoody]

Awesome Bill, congrats!

 

[SMRBAP]

No sweat Bill

BTW - Adjuster is FULL of - I'll show you any number of invoices for after hours line items they paid me. If the work is required outside of normal hours to minimize further damage / stop progression - they owe it. They wouldn't owe you for putting guys there to do work after hours just for the sake of doing it after hours however.

Keep this in mind - the big insurers are getting so used to working with their PSP's - the are starting to forget that the PSP's are in contract to offer things, such as no after hours, no service call, guaranteed dry times, etc - so much so that they actually just believe it's something they don't pay. You are not a PSP - they aren't giving you bulk work, they shouldn't get the discount/s. Contact claims central when you are stonewalled with the adjuster.

If you ever need anything fast during hours on xactimate - anthony@indianacleaning.com will get me faster.

 

[dealtimeman]

I agree completely with Anthony's statement.

We always get after hours pay if we work after hours. You just can't schedule the work after hours to raise your bottom line.

I have had adjusters say they don't pay bsc either and that's a load of crap.

 

[tmdry]

I know what you guys are saying, if I had more coming in I would fight her on the after hours fees and wait for payment.

This was the first time an adjuster told me they don't pay after hours, that was prob her way to get the bill lower...she mentioned in the email "nationwide doesn't pay for after hours besides not all those charges were done during after hours".

 

[Hoody]

That is why documentation is important.

I have a pretty detailed checklist I used. When I get to my comp I will copy/paste or share the file for anyone interested.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Pick your battles if you're talking a large amount I'd stand my ground, if we're talking a small amount I'd probably let it go as the cost of doing business. I wouldn't feel too bad, getting your money quickly has a lot of value to it.

I agree with Anthony and Michael but sometimes depending on the line item it's just not worth the aggravation of fighting if we're talking about a small amount.

 

[Jeremy N]

Yeah, you have to be willing to bend, depending on how much you are talking about.

I tend to be flexible theses days. I used to try to make it known that I was a great guy and tried to save the adjusters money. This method really doesn't work because I often get dinged anyway. Now we charge the maximum charges on almost everything and then become more flexible from there. I have found that nobody really cares if you hit them with max charges on everything. Nobody seems to value me working with them on the front end.

 

[dealtimeman]

Hoody if you could send a copy to me I would interested I. Checking it out please send to lcscleaningconcepts@yahoo.com

 

[Jeremy N]

Hoody has some good stuff. He's posted it here before.

 

[Hoody]

Michael I emailed you.

For anyone else interested visit : https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4qp6etCuqbzalZHN3dNdzA1cjA/edit?usp=sharing

 

[SMRBAP]

Another way to dodge it is duplicate line items, one during, one after hours. Showing what you did during, what you did after.

Rarely questioned then as it calls attention to discretion between the rates.