Getting to know Duane Oxley

[Mikey P]

I can't believe we have not done this yet..


-How long were you a Carpet Cleaner before you saw the need for a better machine?

-What makes your machines unique in the industry?

-Is there anything you'd like to offer on your machines that due to finances, physical limitations, gravity or bad karma you can't incorporate?

-If you had to go out cleaning every day what truck mount would you use if your own were not an option?

-How many times has TCS undercut you and screwed you out of a sale?

-ET or My Favorite Martian?

-I swear I saw Bill Bruders and Mike Roden drooling all over your unit at MF. If they said name your price to take over productions what is the least you'd settle for?

-***....I told you so!

-How many units have you sold to date?

-Were Stickland's problems due to operator erRor?

-What customer is your claim to fame?

-Your death row last meal will be....?


Thanks Duane!@!!

 

[Duane Oxley]

-How long were you a Carpet Cleaner before you saw the need for a better machine?

Actually, I saw the need for one before I ever cleaned carpet. Back in 1983, when I was in charge of chemical and equipment sales for Treat Your Feet, Inc., we bought a truck mount company owned by Gary Parades. I started making design change suggestions back then. Back then, they mainly had to do with ease of installation.

After selling truck mounts for 6 and a half years, I had a brief 6- month stint selling dye and doing dye seminars for a supplier out of Dalton, before returning to Atlanta to eventually try carpet care myself. I started seeing things to change early on, but had no real, "voice", in terms of design, until I set off on my own to do manufacturing in 1996.

-What makes your machines unique in the industry?

Originally, it was mainly ease of maintenance and high heat output. It still is. Shortly after I began, I added a focus on space conservation- leaving as much cargo space as possible available after the install is done. And that goes back to designing the system to be small in the first place. My philosophy is, and always has been, that I'm the guy doing maintenance on them, so I don't want "my" job to be difficult. But over the years, the big picture has changed quite a bit. I used to try to make super- cost- competitive systems, so I cut corners in certain areas (did all the welding personally, hand- painted the frames, fabricated as much in house as I could, etc.) to keep costs down.

Now, I've pulled out all the "stops" and have fabricators do as much of the work as possible. And the frames are powder- coated. And of course, over the years, I've learned quite a bit about how to improve other things as well. The result now is a much more "complete" and "finished" look, than even 5 years ago... even more so, than since I started.

-Is there anything you'd like to offer on your machines that due to finances, physical limitations, gravity or bad karma you can't incorporate?

Yeah. National distribution.

-If you had to go out cleaning every day what truck mount would you use if your own were not an option?

Now that's a good question. And it's a difficult one to answer, because I'm not as familiar with all of the ones out there as I'd like to be in order to make a decision like that. Based on simplicity alone, I'd probably go with one of Les' systems. But I like huge amounts of heat, too. So that would have to be addressed.


-How many times has TCS undercut you and screwed you out of a sale?

More times than I can count. But every time the reverse happens, I make a note of that as well.

-ET or My Favorite Martian?

Neither. StarTrek: Next Generation. But StarGate: Universe has gotten my attention. I like the juxtaposition of Dr. Rush's cold, scientific logic against Col. Young's ethical quandaries. (Rush is a lot like Dr. Smith of "Lost in Space", without the cowardly, self- defeating side that Smith had.)

-I swear I saw Bill Bruders and Mike Roden drooling all over your unit at MF. If they said name your price to take over productions what is the least you'd settle for?

Now, if I answered something like that definitively here, I'd be painting myself in a corner should a similar situation ever arise. Let's just say that, contrary to what you might think, I'd entertain such an idea. I found Mike Roden to be a seriously likable guy, which surprised me. I'd imagined a nerdy, cold and distant overly- analytical- type before meeting him. I found him to be a nice guy, friendly and laid back, overall. Truth is, he and I have very similar design philosophies, based upon what Sapphire Scientific is currently doing. He has a lot more engineering and production experience than I do, so he's in a class by himself in that regard. But if you look at the Xcel and Nemesis concepts, you'll see that he was very similar, in terms of design logic, in the new SS heat exchange systems. So there is a basic compatibility there in that regard.

See there... you got me off topic. Design is simply in my blood. Get me on the subject and I'll talk all day. I literally dream designs...

-***....I told you so!

Why does an "Industry Leader" who is supposedly of the highest ethics, feel the need to have aliases on his own board in particular?

-How many units have you sold to date?

More than I can count. I've designed 14 different models:

Hammer
SledgeHammer
PowerPak
Hammer v2
MiniHammer
SledgeHammer v2
Accelerator
Dominator
Predator CP
Predator
Predator Unleashed!
Dominator (belt driven)
Xcel
Nemesis

-Were Stickland's problems due to operator erRor?

No. It was that under- sized metal situation. I was going to rebuild it on a new, open frame for him, but he got screwed out of it in a bad partnership.

-What customer is your claim to fame?

Probably John Nava. He's had his PowerPak longer than any other customer has had a system from me that I know of, except for Fon Johnson. But John is the more vocal of the two. John went from being a P.O.G., to having a truck mount, with me helping him every step of the way through the learning curve. He still has that PowerPak and still gets his chem's from me.

I've had other customers who've bought multiple systems from me over the years- some as many as 8 purchases. But John has more Internet presence and has helped me more than any single customer. He's more than a customer. He's a good friend. The same is true of others, including Fon Johnson, Ron Lockwood, Sherman Clemmons and others.

-Your death row last meal will be....?

Beats me, Man. I can't conceive of such a thing.

My favorite food, though, would have to be Middle Eastern- marinated lamb and Basmati rice with saffron, with fresh mint leaves, onions and radishes served with pita bread, being a good example.

Then there's Thai, and Cuban and Italian and Greek and Salvadoran and Cajun and on and on...

 

[Mikey P]

Thanks Duane, classy job as usual.


Now how about some fresh pics of your latest units?

 

[Duane Oxley]

Here's a link to a YouTube vid of a Dominator. (I'm planning to do a more in- depth one tomorrow or Monday.)

4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InaQsi1lNiU4]


And here's the first of the new "Viper" series systems. ("Vipers" are what used to be called "Predators". There were 3 kinds of Predators: Predator 36, "Predator CP" ("continuous pumpout") and "Predator Unleashed". The CP series and Unleashed have continuous pumpouts. I decided to split the non- pumpout "Predator 36" away from the other two, because it was difficult to explain to people why such a different system was called the same as 2 that were different. Now, the name, "Predator" is only for systems thast have a continuous discharge in lieu of a recovery tank.)

The one shown was the first "Viper". It was built with used parts (we don't use Briggs or Sutorbilt, but we had some old parts from a ProChem Blazer we stripped down...) for a customer who wanted to save money. (Ron Lockwood, one of our customers jokingly named it the "Warrior Killer", because it has the same components as a Warrior, but is a much better design. And my girlfriend named it the "Viper", because as she puts it, "A viper can kill a warrior.")

Three of the design features that make it unique for such a system are the space- saving tank design, an L.P. gauge mounted on the instrument panel and an automatic pilot light / relight for the Little Giant heater. The entire system is only 21 inches wide, including the recovery tank and heater, yet the tank has a true 65- gal. capacity- not 56 like other 65 gal. tanks.

It's direct- coupled and includes the engine slide plate to make de- coupling easy, as well as the blower leveling plate, to make engine- blower alignment super- easy and precise.

It features a Kohler 18 Command Pro, Roots 36 DSL, Cat 290 w/ clutch, Little Giant #3HT, dual exhausts and can be fitted with a discharge pump.

 

[Mikey P]

What is your preferred method of deliver heat? and what do you sell the most of?

 

[Duane Oxley]

Propane.

We used to sell more Predator Unleashed systems than anything else. Now, with the revamped Dominator design, it's the most asked- for system we do.

However, I backed off of the heat exchange systems because we could sell them faster than my fabricator could produce the parts for us. That's about to shift. Next week, our new fabricator for stainless products begins a production run of 20 exchangers for us. As soon as the first ones are tested and ready, I'll start talking more about HX systems.

Our new fabricator, unlike the other (which we still use for all of our frames and msc. parts), is very at- home with stainless steel. They do a lot of government contracts and have capabilities that exceed any fabricator I've worked with to date.

The Nemesis design has been revamped to be built on a Dominator (belt- driven) frame, using a copper core pre- heater. And I'm more than a little excited about the potential that it has. The original Nemesis delivered over 200 degrees at the wand, but dropped 25 to 30 degrees in the wintertime. With the new exchanger tweaking (tested and proven to increase output temp by about 15 degrees on the Xcel) and the copper pre-heat, we should be able to maintain 190 or more ATW, regardless of time of year.

If I'm right, then we'll be selling a lot of exchangers soon.

 

[dgardner]

Duane, I like the clean layout of your systems. The tank on the Viper, is it aluminum? How thick? And at the top of the tank there appear to be 9 holes drilled, what is that about?

 

[Duane Oxley]

Hi, Dan.

Thanks.

It's 3/16" aluminum.

The holes are where the vacuum relief goes... for now. I've designed a new relief that will be located on the blower soon. The prototype will be at my place next week. It will be as accurate as a Kunkle, but have a couple of advantages, one being the very fact that it will be located on the blower.



By the way... We've been working on making a substantial entry into the Tile and Grout care industry and doing continued development of new odor control products. To that end, we've done the following:


Tile & Grout Care...
Development of a line of tile and grout products, including cleaners, clear and colored sealers. (They've been being field- tested for several weeks now and are going through final stages. So far, we've been getting it "right" on all of them on the first or second try, with minimal tweaking necessary after the fact.)

I've also designed a modified Dominator 2036 (now designated the "TG2500"), that delivers up to 2,500 PSI continuously and maintains temperature plus or minus 10 degrees anywhere you set it up to 230 degrees, through a Turbo Hybrid, running at up to 2,500 PSI. It's available in propane or oil- fired.


Odor Control...
And we're currently field- testing a product I intend to name "PeeBeCide". It's a liquid oxidizer with two very special ingredients added, so that the effects linger for quite some time after the initial treatment. Initial results are pretty exciting, to say the least, with the two most noteworthy reports coming back from treating severe cat odor- one that had 12 cats and the other that had a 14- year old cat with kidney problems. I'm pretty optimistic that we'll release it for sale soon.

 

[Kabluey]

Thank you Duane, that was a good read about you.

Couple of questions...

Is there a reason for the duel mufflers and what kind of mufflers are those and what price range they in.

Thanks

 

[Duane Oxley]

Hey, Brent:

Dual mufflers in parallel splits the airflow between them. Splitting the airflow reduces the rate at which air moves through each muffler by about half. Much of the noise you hear from a given system has to do with how fast the air moves through the silencing system. So, we get a net reduction of about half by using two in parallel.

I spec in mufflers as opposed to industrial silencers because they have a much lower height and therefore take up a lot less space in the system. This leaves room for uncluttered plumbing and wiring and for the optional discharge pump.

Because of the parallel exhaust manifold I designed that has to be fabricated to mount the mufflers, the net cost isn't very different than using a silencer. But silencers do need replacing in a few years, as do mufflers. And when that time comes, the system owner will be pleased to find that mufflers cost less and are much easier to replace than silencers. The silencers used fit a Jeep Cherokee and retail for about $80 each.

 

[bob vawter]

Hey, Brent:

Dual mufflers in parallel splits the airflow between them. Splitting the airflow reduces the rate at which air moves through each muffler by about half. Much of the noise you hear from a given system has to do with how fast the air moves through the silencing system. So, we get a net reduction of about half by using two in parallel.

I spec in mufflers as opposed to industrial silencers because they have a much lower height and therefore take up a lot less space in the system. This leaves room for uncluttered plumbing and wiring and for the optional discharge pump.

Because of the parallel exhaust manifold I designed that has to be fabricated to mount the mufflers, the net cost isn't very different than using a silencer. But silencers do need replacing in a few years, as do mufflers. And when that time comes, the system owner will be pleased to find that mufflers cost less and are much easier to replace than silencers. The silencers used fit a Jeep Cherokee and retail for about $80 each.

DUane...might i suggest SS mufflers OR a ceramic coating inside and out!

 

[Duane Oxley]

Sure, Bawb. Suggest away...

 

[Able 1]

DUane...might i suggest SS mufflers OR a ceramic coating inside and out!

Ceramic coating didn't help me for my header pipe... actually the pipe didn't last as long as the ones that weren't coated. :shock:

I would go with SS over the ceramic coating...

 

[brucedeloatch]

Mike Paillotet and Duane Oxley, Please respond.

Hello Mike. I have a question for you regarding your post. Please clarify what you mean by the following question:

-How many times has TCS undercut you and screwed you out of a sale?

Your choice of words is both inflammatory and accusative. Please explain what you mean by the words "undercut" and "screwed". Both of these terms carry negative connotations. Was that your intent? If so, why? If not, what were your intentions? Are there any positive meanings to these to terms that I am unaware of?

Why did you ask this question at all? How does asking this question help readers "get to know Duane" better?

Duane. I find your response to Mr. Paillotet's question equally troubling as well vague and ambiguous. I honestly do not know what your response means. Please clarify:

More times than I can count. But every time the reverse happens, I make a note of that as well.

What exactly happened more times than you can count? Did TCS, Inc. undercut your company more times than you can count? If so, how do you define undercut? Do you have any documentation to that effect?

Or did TCS "screw" you more times than you can count? If so, how do you define "screw"?

Can you give readers some idea of how high you can count? Is it 3 times? 50 times? A hundred?


When you say "But every time the reverse happens, I make a note of that as well"... Totally ambiguous! It can mean two opposite things depending on if you meant it as written or if you missed a comma.

Now gentlemen, before you answer those questions, here is a commonly held definition of the slang term "screw" :

cheat: defeat someone through trickery or deceit

To imply that TCS engages in cheating, trickery and deceit on a public forum is pretty serious stuff. Duane is a TCS competitor. His comments, though ill-considered and inflammatory are not a surprising response to a leading question. But from my perspective, yours come as a complete surprise Mr. Paillotet. I would like a complete explanation of your comments on this forum.

In the past, whenever TCS has been accused, attacked and otherwise slandered on public forums, I have always been cordial and polite. I recommend that you respond to my questions in the same manner.

Best Regards,

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Lighten up Bruce. Haven't you ever heard these boys play before? I assure you that no comment here has hurt your business at all.

 

[Mikey P]

Bruce

A company like Duane's can not drop prices on a whim like yours can. For Mike and you I'm sure you would practically give a unit away if it meant you'd lock that new TM owner into years of juice, accessory and none warranty work sales to a local guy. Lots of money backing TCS right?


Small shops like Duane's just can't compete, so yes, they get screwed out of a sale plenty.

Keep in mind I"m not saying the customer gets screwed, just boutique manufactures like my favorite Martian..

Just part of the game and a interesting question that I hoped Duane would have elaborated on more. Guys like him must lose out plenty to more established companies.

Perfect example was your recent sale of a unit to Marty. He first promised Duane he was going to buy from him, than told Les Jones the same thing and eventually went with you guys because of lower price and quicker delivery.

 

[brucedeloatch]

Sorry Lee. In the most respectful way I have to say that you are wrong. This board is read by potential customers of TCS. This is not playing. This is slander. Am I to simply laugh along with it?

TCS is not an advertiser here. TCS does not say malicious things about it's competitors. Why we are dragged into these discussions and maligned by the owner of this board is beyond me. I have been patient up to date with this stuff, but when I have a customer call me and ask what this is about it makes me wonder about potential loss of future sales and revenue from that customer and others like him. Opinions expressed on bulletin boards can cost sales.

In case you don't realize it, a business relies on it's good reputation. Making the comment that we engage in trickery and deceit is potentially damaging to our reputation. No, this is not playing.

Mike P: Whether TCS is big or small, has lots of money behind it or how we negotiate is all irrelevant. You are simply trying to tap dance around the fact that both you and Duane made a statement that insinuates that TCS engages in trickery, deceit and basically underhanded business practices. Selling at less than list price is not any of those things.

As far as Marty Sutley goes, the details of his purchase as all TCS customer purchases are confidential. But I will tell you this... Marty got no better deal than we would offer anyone else who has the ability to close the deal quickly and negotiate well. We do not price our machines based on negotiations with competitors. That is simply a race to the bottom that we don't want to win.

So to clarify:

Are you saying that TCS engages in trickery, deceit or dishonesty? If so, explain. If not, apologize publicly and we can all move on.


Best regards,

 

[Ryan]

A company like Duane's can not drop prices on a whim like yours can. For Mike and you I'm sure you would practically give a unit away if it meant you'd lock that new TM owner into years of juice, accessory and none warranty work sales to a local guy. Lots of money backing TCS right?

That's called capitalism, and its GOOD for the consumer. If Duane, Les, or any other small supplier has a problem with that they need to find a way to make their products more competitive. Like Duane said he does the same thing back to TCS. Its not screwing them, its just being competitive in business.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

waaay too much estrogen sometimes...

 

[Duane Oxley]

Hey, Bruce...

I take Mikey's use of the word, "screwed" as Mike's typical emphatic way of expressing himself- not "screwed" in the literal sense.

It is true that I've lost more sales to TCS due to a sudden drop in price by TCS than I can count- mainly because I don't stop to count. There's no sense in being preoccupied with something that can't be changed after the fact. It's just not worth the effort as I know you'll agree. The main thing is to keep moving on and looking for ways to improve. "There's always the next time".. that is, unless, I'm brooding over something that's "history", instead of moving forward.

I see competition as a good thing, actually. And a good part of that is keeping me on my toes more than if I'd become "fat and sassy", to coin a phrase. I would have not designed the Viper, if it weren't for the need to build a system that I see as "more than competitive enough". (There are a couple of surprises I haven't announced about it yet. That will be in August, when we do some advertising about it, and the next Accelerated Gathering.)

Anyway, as always, I enjoyed the conversation today. You're a good guy in my book, even though, as I said, you work for "the enemy", so to speak.

I've got noting "bad" to say about TCS. It's a waste of time and effort, as it would be for me to do so about any competitor. If anyone uses such an approach as part of their sales strategy, then personally, I'd avoid them.

By the way... The idea that we can't compete price- wise with a larger company isn't entirely true. We have much lower overhead, because we have only 3 or 4 mouths to feed, vs a company with a staff of 20 or so. We don't charge for "every little thing" as some do. And that's become a major draw for new customers to us.

 

[joeynbgky]

Well, This is an interesting thread. Bruce as a customer of yours, I can assure you that Mikey has nto said anything bad about your company. I talk about my TCS all the time! It is the best truckmount that I have owned. To be honest I like duanes and judson machines as well.. The reason I bought a TCS was for the these reasons..........


1 The machine is durable and well built. Also good reviews.

2 I liked the fact that everything was included. hoses, reels, wand you name it... And the install as well... You also made me fell special when you gave me chemical shelf filled with chemicals. I mean every kind of chemical you could think of! You drove me to a hotel for the day, so i could wait there. I walked back, but that was because I chose too. LOL

3 Price........ Your prices online are about $1,000 more than they were a year ago... But you still gave me some money off the list price of a year ago....



Some other companies are good as well.. LEs from Judson helps everyone out with questinos and is the goto guy on here... Judsons machines are about the same price as yours, except for the waste tank, I am told that there finished price is more because they use a stainless steel waste tank.....

One thing on your machines that should change is this........... You should automatically use the 2.5 inch ports, like on martys. But other than that I am one of the happiest customers ever of TCS... Will my next machine be a TCS? I hope so, but I am liking the judson as well. And if I did buy the Judson it would be because of Les, he has helped me with alot of questioins and problems, so I feel like I owe it to him to buy a truckmount from him sometime down the road.. But when my business is big enough I will buy a Judson and a TCS at the same time, and compare them for years to come, side by side... Now, I had my TCS unit at mikeyfest parked next to the judson. ( its where i parked for the event) Les looked at the TCS and did not have a bad thing to say about it, except about the 2.5 ports. And simply told me that maybe down the road I should run the blower exzaust separate from the engine. Which I have heard lots of people say to do that on these machines cause it could blow the seals.. (But no one has ever told me that to my face) Les just said I should. re-route the blower exzaust. If this is true I do not know. your machines are alot alike. And both very good companies.

So what I am trying to say is this.......... Mikey jokes and alot of us on here are blunt, if someone has somethign to say bad about a company it is said. Why? Because this is a place to speak how you feel... I owuld love to see you get along with Mikey and everyone and visit this board more. I know that we could all learn alot from you as well. I always post questioins about my machine on here, people help, but there is no one representing TCS that actually know s the machine... Bruce I believe you had a very successfull carpet cleaning company at one time. Correct? You sold it and changed sides from cleaner to distributor. So you could help alot of us new guys and older guys on here.

So I hope everyone has enjoyed my book.... Ignore the spelling and the other mistakes, cause i didnt proof read it.

 

[joeynbgky]

Did I scare everyone off?

 

[Duane Oxley]

Hey, Joey.

No.

And for the record, a comparable system made by my company has the same accessories included (except for chemical rack), typically costs less (For example: Viper, with 18 Kohler, Roots 36 DSL, Cat 290 & clutch, Little Giant #3HT, 75 true capacity gal. recovery tank, is $11,000 installed. Warrior is $12,895.) and comes with chem's as well. And I'd be happy to drive you to a hotel while the install was being done.

Advantages of the Viper:

1.) Engine and Blower turn at the same speed Blower is not under- driven. (So at a given RPM, you'll have more vacuum.)

2.) The entire system, including recovery tank and heater, is only 21 inches wide (Saves you a LOT of space in the van.)

3.) Recovery tank capacity is a true 65 usable gallons- not 65, minus 8 inches of height like other systems

3.) Cat pump isn't exposed to damage caused by items that move in the van during sudden stops.

4.) Automatic electronic ignition lighter / relighter on the Little Giant heater (That's one I was going to announce in August...)

5.) Can be fitted with belt- driven discharge pump for $800

6.) Changing a belt (on the Cat pump) or coupling (between the engine and blower) takes 5 minutes and is required only yearly at most.

7.) Lifetime discounts on all chemicals to all customers who purchase truckmounts from us. (Typically, $3 per gallon, off of our already competitive pricing. In your case, that would basically mean free freight.)

So, when you get ready for your next system, take a look at what we offer.

 

[joeynbgky]

Thanks Duane, question about that little Giant ignitor... Is it like the battery operated one on my grill? i told TCS to look into that.. My distributor is 1 hour away.. So if I had any problems. They would bill TCS for the labor and parts. So when I choose someone it will have to be someone who does business with my distributor. which is chris Pond. And I'm wandering if I like my disty so much, why I dont buy somethign from them? My machine costs much more from them than TCs directly. so if i buy something I think the next manufacturer should send the unit to nashville and pay for the install. I like free installs but i hate the long drives.

 

[Duane Oxley]

Joey:

The pilot ignitor isn't battery- operated. It runs on 12 volts, and comes on when you flip the toggle switch for the pump clutch.

The price on the Viper is introductory. It will go up by the end of the year, after it's known in the market. I've always released new systems at an intro price for the first year.

When and if the time comes, I'll talk to your distributor and see what can be worked out.

 

[Craig Peko]

Maybe pig man didn't want to wait 6 months for Duane to get a machine like the guy on ***. TCS builds good machines and are good blokes. So don't worry Bruce,Mike likes to slander then befriend you to keep this drama board alive. Look at Joe Bristor. Mike hated and slandered him like crazy for years and now Joe licks up his dribble to sell his wares here. Before you know it he will convince you to make a Mikeymachine so blokes can use the Mikeycuffs on it. That is the real trickery and your putty in his palms. Slander,befriend and assimilate. Some catch on like martin sutley he was just a little slow being a pig farmer and all. So wise up early man.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Wazz a bloke? :wink:

 

[Guest]

Bloke I think is like Dude? Or is it more like Poor Slob?

 

[Desk Jockey]

Sorry Eric, I waz just giving Craig a hard time with his language. :wink:

 

[bob vawter]

An' to coin a phrase from one of my faOrite movies...
Never Underestimate....

"THE OTHER GUY"