Help me find the right vacuum cleaner

joey895

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Inspired by this thread I picked up a Kirby G7 for the whopping price of $0 this morning.

There is no belt on it so I'll need to get one before I can test it out.

Where is the best place to get parts for these things?

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Russ T.

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I like the looks of that horsehair brush for prescrub. I don't think I saw that before.


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Zee

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So this wacky Kirby lovefest thread goes so mindless that even a *** video can be linked....wow..mikeysboard is evolving...or should I say devolving...
 

Ron Werner

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This stuff doesn't make any noise. And if it's going through your fan ewwwww say goodnight Dick

If you can hear this stuff coming in, it isn't teachable because you're probably the only one with super hearing that can hear it!
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GeeeAus

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This stuff doesn't make any noise. And if it's going through your fan ewwwww say goodnight Dick

If you can hear this stuff coming in, it isn't teachable because you're probably the only one with super hearing that can hear it!
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G'day Readers.

Just wanted to say this is a terrific post. I really am blown away by it. It is precisely why Ron's business ethic is a lesson to me. I've had the pleasure of meeting Ron prior to coming here after first finding Real Cleaners Cafe'. We've had a few exchanges there and all of them confirm to me Ron is the guy to watch. I love the YouTube content he's created and freely confess that in his hands he is able to use his Cleartrak to terrific effect.

We disagree on what constitutes optimum machine configuration but in the end I consider dry soil extraction to be as critical as I think Ron does.

Commenting on the nature of our disagreement and my position on the issue, I am interested to know how "much" soil is extracted with the Cleartrak in terms of measured weight.

I am impressed by the appearance of filling clear canisters but this in and of itself doesn't tell me much. Ron has spoken to me about the Cleartrak being a modified machine which I have no difficulty accepting, but even taking this is so there; to my mind remain significant issues with it. I have had some first hand experience with the machine it is based on this being the Amway CMS 2000. The CMS 1000 and 2000 are (originally) Bissell manufactured and Dyson designed machines. They employ a Dual Cyclone cyclonic separator and a panel type micro level foam and paper element filter. These filters are of quite limited area, much smaller than the area of just about any bagged vacuum cleaner, and certainly smaller than our traditional upright machine designs.

As with Dyson vacuums the cone piece of the dual cyclone particle separator sits in the centre of the dust collector bin. What this means is that as the bin fills with soil, the area for heavier particles that do not make it into the inner cyclone separator accumulate on the outside of the cone. This area is obviously quite a bit smaller than the volume of the dust collector would be were there no cone present. In this way the unit has a tendency to visually misrepresent the actual quantity of soil recovered; as it will accumulate on the outside of the collection vessel, gradually obstructing the user's view of the plastic cone that occupies the largest part of the collector's real volume in the centre.

another issue I have pertains to the nature of cyclonic separation itself. As the dust particles fly into the canister that are entrained in the constant movement of air that is the cyclone's vortex. This causes large volumes of air to become trapped in amongst the collected debris and further exacerbates the illusion of greater recovery quantity by making the soil itself occupy more space than it otherwise would. It's like shaking a quilt or pillow.

When these factor's effects are jointly considered, it is evident that the machine will be far more visually impressive that is really the case. in terms of customer engagement and confidence this is a boon, but from the perspective of allowing the operator to really interpret visually "how much" soil has been recovered it is quite deceptive.

By contrast upright cleaners with bags vent debris into a bag under positive pressure. Owing to the combined forces of gravity and positive air pressure the soil will fall to the bottom of the bag and as more soil enters it will be compacted under its' own increasing weight and the incoming air. This is actually the reverse of the cyclone system. The bag has no internal mechanisms with which soil has to compete for storage volume, and the forces at play will tend to compress the soil and minimise its' visual impact weather looking at the bag's final fill size or even cutting it open to inspect the contents. This is to say nothing of the hidden fine dust which becomes trapped in the bag's walls.

On this basis I think the visual interpretation of performance is at best unhelpful and at worst divisive.

Instead I propose that a better way of measuring performance would be to measure the weight of the soil at completion of he job. It would be a waste of time to do this on all jobs and that is not what I'm suggesting. But for those who'd like to get some kind of meaningful benchmark of soil recovery performance, weight seems the only fair metric.

Nobody buys flour or corn flakes or sugar on the visual appearance of the bag or container it comes in, instead it's sold by weight which allows for an objective comparison.

Just my thoughts. Wanted to thank everybody for the contributions here as I have learnt a lot reading this thread. What I am so enamoured with is how important so many respondents feel dry soil extraction really is. If this weren't the case the thread would have ended long ago. A real testament to the commitment cleaners have to recovering that majority 79% of soil best removed dry - before - wet processing.

I think I've banged on enough in this thread and could understand completely if this constant too and fro were to have become irritating now. I will leave the thread alone from here unless directly asked to comment further. My parting advice is to consider the best ways to objectively evaluate anything and everything important in your work. Look to hard units of measure to decide what is and isn't best. Everything else is secondary.

Thanks to Mikey for the respect and for giving an idea a shot on a newcomers say so. Thanks to Ron for being a spire of ethic and detail a newbie can learn from on the other side of the world.


Grant
 
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Lefty724

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E
Holy crap that was long.

I have a Cleartrak as well and it sits in my laundry room. It's a nice vacuum but Imo the tools suck and I have to constantly clean out the filters as well as the canister.

I used to swear by bagless vacuums (I've had them all), but have now been crossed over to a bagged guy. Love the filtering, power, and ease of maintenence on my bagged vacuums. I don't think I can go back...
 

Derek

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Cleartrak looks great but i need a vac with good edging capabilities. especially for stairs. bringing 2 vacuums into a home/building doesn't appeal to me. :errf:
 

Goldenboy

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Just think if Ron could get stains out. He has admitted to not even trying to get colored stains out. Yes he is a dry soil removal king but his wetside needs sum serious work.

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Ron Werner

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Working on the red stains. Need a good product that's easier to get up here.

Good to see so many vacuuming. Twasn't like this 10yrs ago. When I'm done, Grant can keep on you guys :icon_cool:
Some truth to what Grant is talking about. The centre cyclone chamber does take up room in the canister, but I end up dumping it more often and I simply change the filters (washable many times-great $ saver) I just fill up a small garbage bag.

Depending on what the outdoor environment is you will find different soils. If you live near a beach, more sand, having landscaping done-more soil (one client had a olefin berber carpet and was landscaping a clay yard. Long haired sheep dogs brought half the yard into the carpet :icon_rolleyes: ) in a high rise- more dust and lint. I've pulled over 10lbs of soil from some carpets. Others are canisters of hair and dust which have no weight at all but it needs to be removed or it'll just stick there. One condo had hardly any soil at all, except for 1 sq yard where I put over an inch of drywall dust in the canister. If I couldn't see it, never would have known it was there. I can hear when my filter is getting plugged, but I can't hear when the soil is coming in. If its making a noise coming in the canister, its not the soil I'm really after.

The deception with bags is that you can fill them to the top and still have great airflow. Yes, all that soil gets pulled and compressed into the bottom of the bag. But where is all the fine dust being filtered. As that heavier soil and hair etc gets compressed into the bottom of the bag, the air has to get through some where, so it goes out the TOP of the bag. By the time the bag is half full, the pores in the top half have been plugged with all the submicron particles that have no where else to go. Keep a lot of bags on hand for those jobs where lots of pet hair, or lots of dust beside the beds.

Some on here had the best comment: The best vacuum is one that gets used!
Just pick on and use it. Its better than not using one.
 

ruff

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Not that he can't defend himself, but you fookers leave Ron alone.

At the end it all boils down to vacuum envy on your side! :eekk:
 
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ruff

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My pc is on the floor, desktop well, desk bottom. The desk is wipes up easily as long as I keep it off the keyboard. :winky:

I was always under the impression that sir Richard never imbibes the sauce.
The above post is burdening me with second thoughts (never a good thing for me).

English translation, please.
 

Derek

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Cleartrak has all the edging tools and an extension hose for doing the stairs.

really?

Ron have you tried the Cleartrak Workhorse model? i assume it is a newer model?? i wonder how it differs from the CMS1000
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Russ T.

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Waldo posted a video shot by his boy at *** about the Kirby. In the video he showed a horsehair brush that could be attached to it for agitation. Has anyone tried this with the Kirby? The video was taken down shortly after he posted and I don't really mix it up with the guys at ***. You jokers are so much more friendly ;-).


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Goldenboy

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Russell use your 175 for prescrubbin. Do people even give a shitt about dry soil removal? The custy has u there for the 21 percent . You need to take care of that Ron. Most of the crap I've seen u clean is over 25 years old all u r doing is removing the jute backing. Ron do you talk about the carpet cleaning chat room u hang out in? that shit really creeps out custies no wonder u don't clean for 32 year old milfs. Yes I do pre vac when I'm talking to the custy about my little brats.
 
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Russ T.

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Have you tried the horsehair brush Waldo? How did you know that you liked the 175 for pre scrubbing until you tried? As a 1 man show, I have to seriously consider my efficiency. Once I go dragging tons of equipment into a home, it takes FOREVER to get out. I'm committed to quality AND efficiency. I will hire help in the Spring but it's solo for me again until then. I was wondering if the Kirby could be used to vacuum well and then agitate prior to the 360i? It would be GREAT to get these 2 functions from 1 piece of equipment. Another thing for me to consider is space in my van.


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Goldenboy

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Christ Russell a pre scrub before a 360 I ? Is it nessecary? Talk to art kelley he will lead u the right way. Quit buying crap u don't need. Taking forever to cean trust me I know wat u r talkin about but as art says this is the path we have chosen. Lay down some pre spray flush the fook out of it and get paid.if it looks like shit tell em its wear area and move on to your next victim. Quit trying to be a bulletin board superstar or you could end up like me driving a honda which u bought off craigslist. Have your friends make up a bunch off fake google reviews like yoakum and get rich!
 

Russ T.

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???? Superstar? I thought I was asking a question, NOT pretending to have all the answers. I've learned a lot here and that's how...asking questions. The question was if anyone had used the brush attachment for the Kirby for prescrub? You did not answer the question. Someone with more experience than you (and me) could be more helpful.


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GeeeAus

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I promised to not contribute unless called upon to do so. But you haven't had a reply and I have the information you require.

So......

In short the Kirby can make a pretty decent general purpose tool. You can do some agitation work with it, it limits you somewhat to doing nylons and woollens with moderate pile heights. It isn't wonderful on things like polyprops. For the first six months of my business I used the Kirby as the go to machine for everything save for extraction which it obviously doesn't do.

You can foam in pre-sprays with the Kirby too as well as work in absorbent compound, both of which I have done. Simply set it up as the dry foam shampooer and blow your pre-spray into the carpet as foam and the brush will work it into the pile, then you can extract. Or set it up as the carpet fluffier and apply absorbent compound as you normally would and work it in.

After using the Kirby as everything for six months I bought a Sebo Duo /P mini CRB. This was a step up in terms of agitation, so you can start to see where the performance of the Kirby as a scrub machine lies. After just reaching the 1 year mark (13 months now) I just bought my first single disc machine / 184 RPM machine.

The weight and coverage of this machine make it much more capable than either the Kirby or Sebo Duo /P machines I used before it.

There are times however where I prefer to use the Sebo still over the single disc machine. Some carpets just bloom too much under the machines significant weight. But since having the single disc machine, I have't used the Kirby to foam in my pre-spray, simply because I find the shower tank dispenser on the 184 more useful.

So if I had to specify the order of effectiveness of various scrub tools on a continuum of performance it might look like this.

In order of least to most effective

1 Grandi Groomer
2 Brush Groomer
3 Deck Broom
4 Kirby Groomer
5 Sebo Duo /P
6 Rotowash / Muktiwash
7 Single Disc Machine
8 ProCaps & Similar Machines
9 Brush Pro & Similar Machines

Hope this helps.

Grant
 
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Ron Werner

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really?

Ron have you tried the Cleartrak Workhorse model? i assume it is a newer model?? i wonder how it differs from the CMS1000
Its not the updated model. The Workhorse is the rebranding name, it is the same as the Cleartrak. The accessories come in a separate box, about $30. The new vac comes with extension tubes and a crevasse tool. I added a tube to carry my crevasse tool on an extension.
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Lay down some pre spray flush the fook out of it and get paid.
Yah, that's the type of cleaning I'm trying to educate clients to avoid, or at least so they understand it is a subpar cleaning. 90% of the cleaners out there, that's all they do. Hec, Mardie can do a better job with VS than just a prespray rinse! I may not get out the "coloured spots" but at least I'm removing more than 19% of the soil. More people are more concerned about health and allergies. Some red dye on the carpet isn't going to affect either but significant remaining soil load might.
 

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