Is my Heat Exchanger broken?

[gimmeagig]

Hi,
I have a 1999 CDS 4.8 (no salsa) in a dodge ram van.
Yesterday, as I was cleaning, the plastic coolant reservoir started to overflow even though the temperature of the machine was in the normal range. Today it was doing it again.
I have a carpet cleaner friend here in town who knows more about this technical stuff than I do. He thinks I might have a hole in one of the heat exchangers. Pressure from the CDS pump putting water into the coolant and that's why the plastic resevoir is always full. Makes sense to me, but could it possibly be something else too?
My truck had a tendency to overheat while I was driving and the way I got around that was by turning the heater on full. That has helped for a long time. 6 months ago I changed the thermostat from a 205 back to a 195. And a couple of months ago I replaced the water pump and the fan belt.
My question is: Can I still do a few jobs with the machine as it is or will I damage it if I ran it a few times like this? Temporarily I could hook up a drain hose to the reservoir over flow and drain it into a bucket so I don't leave a mess in customers driveways. But I know I need to really fix this.
Is there a good source for heat exchangers? It would be nice if I din't have to go through Hydramaster. I don't really like their customer service. Can heat exchangers be rebuilt?
Of course right now I have quite a few jobs on the schedule so saving money on the repair is less important than getting back into the game.
If I had to replace them, could I get one with the salsa package for higher heat?

 

[Doug Rice]

Do you have the correct length of serpentine belt? 107.5" Do you have the correct length of serpentine belt? 107.5" I think. Why is the van overheating while your driving if the CDS heat exchanger is not on? Have you talked to your local Hydramaster dealer? I have the same truck and messed with the heat exchangers and I my mechanic had the wrong length of belt on. The water pump - cooling and water through HX, the CDS clutch all run off the belt. Have your mechanic make sure your cooling system is working correctly first. If you do have a bad HX it's probably only 1 of them and it can be bypassed and still be able to use the good one to build at least a little heat. Give me a call if I can be of any help! 913 433-4045 cell

 

[gimmeagig]

Yes, it's only one belt that runs everything. I had the water pump replaced a few months ago and the belt at the same time. Since then I have done many jobs without having the coolant reservoir overflowing. And that at much higher outside temperatures than we have right now.
So I'm thinking the belt is probably the correct one.
The heat buildup while I'm driving has my mechanic puzzled too. He says everything seems to be working properly. But my check engine light came on a while ago after my truck heated up to about 250 on a really hot day and according to my mechanic the code that it showed could be one of several different things. CO2 sensor, Catalytic converter or even a plugged radiator. It also could just be an indicator that it had run too hot. So yes, the cooling system needs to be checked out and I'll take my truck to his shop tomorrow to figure out what to do.
What has me thinking it might be the Heat exchanger is the fact that the overflow tank is always full. If it was just the cooling system of the truck wouldn't the overflow tank eventually be empty after draining out a bunch of coolant? And wouldn't the engine temp while I'm operating the machine be above normal? It seems like the coolant is getting replenished from somewhere. Right now the coolant is still green.
You mentioned that only one heat exchanger may be bad. So, how will I know which one? Trial and error?
I'll probably should replace both if one of them is bad on a machine as old as mine, do you agree?

 

[bob vawter]

if yor reservoir
is overflowing.....yes you DO have a leak in one or more and whats worse is......you pumped yor radiators contents all over Mrs Phiffts new rug.................

 

[Cleanworks]

If that's true, (not doubting you Bob) you should have smelled the antifreeze as you were cleaning. I did something similar once. I used rad antifreeze to winterize my tm and although I thought I flushed it out, there was enough left to make a powerful stink. Good thing the place was empty and I kept flushing until the odor died away. Those were pretty wet carpets.

 

[dealtimeman]

Could be the thermostat, could be radiator cap. Could be many things but if you coolant reservoir keeps overflowing and you are not refilling the radiator or the overflow with more coolant, then yes one or both of exchangers is leaking.

 

[bob vawter]

tell him where...........

 

[gimmeagig]

Hey Bob, I sure hope I didn't put my antifreeze on someones carpet.
I don't know that much about heat exchangers ( which is why I'm asking here) but correct me if I'm wrong ... if the waterpump pressure of the CDS is higher than the pressure of my cooling system,and coolant gets blown out of my reservoir, then how could I end up with coolant in my cleaning solution? Are you just trying to freak me out here for no reason? :0 Don't do that!

 

[gimmeagig]

Here's another question, along the same lines. If my cleaning solution ends up in my coolant (which sounds more logical to me right now), could I potentially damage my cooling system? Of course I'm going to fix this ASAP but I need to know if I can still get through a few jobs without messing up my truck or someones carpets until I get the new heat exchangers.
Like I said this kind of problem is completely new to me, that's why I'm asking you guys and I appreciate the help.

 

[bob vawter]

NOOOOO

 

[bob vawter]

Are you just trying to freak me out here for no reason? :0

OK ya got me........EXCEPT when the water pump is shut off and you driving to the next job ....whurres the antifreeze side going.....

still freakin' huh?

 

[gimmeagig]

OK I know it's late and I'm keeping my own thread going for now, but I'm hoping that tomorrow I might get some more input from you guys.
Right now I'm checking on prices. I'll make the calls tomorrow to see who actually has them in stock. Seems like these Heat exchangers are not difficult to find. They are listed by several different companies online. 799.- seems to be the going price. Does anyone here have a source that is lower?

 

[gimmeagig]

OK ya got me........EXCEPT when the water pump is shut off and you driving to the next job ....whurres the antifreeze side going.....

still freakin' huh?

OK I see your point. Let me know if my logic is flawed here,I'm thinking that as soon as I run the machine I could blow out the antifreeze pretty quickly out of the system, right? I do have a temp control on the machine. If I turned that to cold while I'm driving to the job would that make a difference? Like I said, I don't plan on making this a permanent situation, but it looks like i might have to order the exchangers and that might take a few days. But I sure don't want to mess up my customers carpets

 

[Doug Rice]

When you open your radiator cap first thing in the morning before you start the engine is the radiator completely full? If the engine is overheating it will fill the overflow bottle but you will be low on coolant when the engine is cold. What belt did your mechanic put on when he installed the new water pump? I must be a 107.5, I had trouble getting this belt length a a couple of big suppliers were wrong and I called Hydramaster to get the correct one. Is it routed correctly? I'll call you later this morning.

 

[Doug Rice]

Have your mechanic check you catalytic converter. You say your van overheats when driving. My cat was bad but tested good and my mechanic was driving my van home and it died when he was in it ( you know how it never acts up for them ) it would not start and he said it was very hot in the van. He ended up cutting the exhaust and it started right up and ended up removing the cat and it runs like a champ. He is going to replace the converter as soon as I have time to get it back in to him. How many hour on your CDS and how many miles on your van?

 

[Clean Response]

yes you have a hole.

 

[dealtimeman]

Hey Bob, I sure hope I didn't put my antifreeze on someones carpet.
I don't know that much about heat exchangers ( which is why I'm asking here) but correct me if I'm wrong ... if the waterpump pressure of the CDS is higher than the pressure of my cooling system,and coolant gets blown out of my reservoir, then how could I end up with coolant in my cleaning solution? Are you just trying to freak me out here for no reason? :0 Don't do that!

Yes if you have a leak in your exchanger then there is potential for antifreeze to enter your pressure system, but unless it is a very large leak, the amount of antifreeze entering your system is very little if any as your coolant/antifreeze is not under anywhere close to the pressure that you solution/water system pressure levels are at. I.e. You coolant/antifreeze system on your van will only build to 20 psi max before you see it all over the floor flowing out of your overflow bottle. As to where your solution/water system while you are cleaning is around 500 psi.

So much greater possibility for the flow of water into your coolant and not the other way around, there is always a possibility but it is minimal.

Don't worry about your solution in your radiator/ coolant system unless you are dumping a crap load of chems into fresh tank.

After you find the leak, drain your radiator and exchangers, put system under vacuum and introduce new coolant mix pulled in under vacuum to lesson chance of air pockets.

 

[dealtimeman]

OK I see your point. Let me know if my logic is flawed here,I'm thinking that as soon as I run the machine I could blow out the antifreeze pretty quickly out of the system, right? I do have a temp control on the machine. If I turned that to cold while I'm driving to the job would that make a difference? Like I said, I don't plan on making this a permanent situation, but it looks like i might have to order the exchangers and that might take a few days. But I sure don't want to mess up my customers carpets

No read above post

 

[dealtimeman]

Very simply put.

If you ain't refilling your coolant/ radiator after it spills out, where is the water coming from?

 

[Newman]

My truck had a tendency to overheat while I was driving and the way I got around that was by turning the heater on full. That has helped for a long time. 6 months ago I changed the thermostat from a 205 back to a 195. And a couple of months ago I replaced the water pump and the fan belt.

Could be weak engine fan clutch. Check for clogged radiator fins or core.

The problem started as summer came on and as you were driving, not running your machine. Eliminate all engine related possibilities.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Had two different Butlers do that, both times it was the HE.

 

[gimmeagig]

I think I might have dodged a bullet for now.
This morning morning I took the truck to my mechanic. The check engine light that had come on recently because it got really hot one time. because of the code it showed, my mechanic changed out the two CO2 sensors and the radiator cap. We pressure tested the motor with the heat exchangers connected and there was a slight pressure drop. Then we disconnected the Heat exchangers and tested just the engine cooling system. Still a slight pressure drop but not as much as before.
So he added a powder called Aluma Seal to the coolant. Something to find and plug small leaks. I drove the truck for 30 minutes and it noticeably ran better. It did not run hot anymore with the heater in the cool position. We drained the coolant overflow reservoir to the proper level and I did three jobs with it and the level is still exactly where it should be.
So for now it seems to be fixed. My Truckmount Mechanic at LPM in Spokane says that they have actually never seen an internal leak on a heat exchanger. They seem to leak to the outside into the van when they break. So he doesn't think the HX was my problem. That's good because they are over 900.- each.
Now that we have changed several different things it's difficult to say what did the trick. Maybe a combination of all of the above.
Hopefully I didn't jinx it by saying "It's fixed"
Thanks again for you help everybody ( that includes even you, Bob, but don't scare me anymore like that,OK ? )

 

[Cleanworks]

We used to put an egg in the radiator.

 

[bob vawter]

soooooooo you clogged up the HX to fix it....sound about right?

 

[gimmeagig]

soooooooo you clogged up the HX to fix it....sound about right?

Bob, I know you think you are really clever and it's obvious you enjoy your little digs and put downs.
Most people here on this board are really kind and genuinely interested in sharing what they know. I have learned a lot from them over the years and I appreciate that they take the time to be part of this great forum.
Unfortunately you are not one of those people. You are not here to be helpful, you are in it just for yourself. From what I can tell you seem to be a completely unpleasant individual. But, whatever the issues might be that you are struggling with on a personal level, I am tired of your comments.
I'll be putting you on ignore status.

 

[bob vawter]

anytime someone purposely puts
Aluma Seal into a HX that will clog it up......jus telling you the facts
iv'e only been doin' this shh*t for a little over forty years ....sorry yor having problems understanding how yor system works..
Aluma Seal is made for aluminum radiators and will not seal up a stainless or a copper coil inside the HX
remember me as you pay out the as$$ for new HX's
OHH WAIT...i'm wasting my time here!

 

[shadygrady]

Are you sure your not thinking of Marty?

 

[steve_64]

If the van ran noticeably better after the alumi seal then you probably have a bad head gasket or cracked or wrarped head.

 

[Cleanworks]

Bob, I know you think you are really clever and it's obvious you enjoy your little digs and put downs.
Most people here on this board are really kind and genuinely interested in sharing what they know. I have learned a lot from them over the years and I appreciate that they take the time to be part of this great forum.
Unfortunately you are not one of those people. You are not here to be helpful, you are in it just for yourself. From what I can tell you seem to be a completely unpleasant individual. But, whatever the issues might be that you are struggling with on a personal level, I am tired of your comments.
I'll be putting you on ignore status.

aluma seal is just a temporary fix. If the hx was leaking, it will leak again.

 

[bob vawter]

Sooooo....is the HX toast...?

he won't talk to me............