Portys that can somewhat work like a TM?

[Dolly Llama]

• Since Ofer was having fun throwing out some generic statements, I thought I would do the same!-lol

• Yes- You can clean very well with a less expensive, Lower Cost TM

• No- It will not clean as well as a more expensive truck mount, unless you're willing to increase all the extra component of TACT to compensate. Which eventually (through the natural process of aging, shrinking, tight schedule, loss of happiness, etc. etc.) people tend to get lackadaisical about.

• Yes- They (lower cost less expensive TM's) do require more (not less) maintenance, as parts seem to break more often.

• No- You don't have to (though most do) entertain suicidal thoughts while using a Cheaper TM..

• Yes- Any job with a Lower cost TM will take you longer.

• No- Ofer is not from Mars.

• Bottom line, isn't it common-sense that a $9,000 TM would clean better than a $8,000-to-$8,999.00 one?

Ed, I've always had respect for you (aside from that, I've always just plain liked you)
I don't believe you've seen me say anything bad about a Recoil specifically

but it really comes down to this;

gas driven positive displacement blowers ...it's really what makes the difference
Electric vac motors can't compete on a couple/three cords
be it at 50ft or a 150ft , the PD blower will always pull stronger (assuming 36 and up running at or near max RPM/HG specs )


not a knock on anything or anybody, i promise ...it's matter of, "that's just the way it is"


..L.T.A.

 

[dgardner]

It's a known constant - 746 watts equals one horsepower. Two 20A circuits - (if motors were 100% perfect and you could use all 20A without tripping the breaker) - gives you 6.4 horsepower - to run the vacs, pump, and any heat. That's why electric machines don't have equal performance. It's an energy thing. A TM's 20hp engine translates to 125 AMPS worth of 120V circuits. Give me that many amps and I (or anyone) can make an electric machine of equal performance to a TM.

In real life motors aren't 100% efficient and you can't actually get 20A out of a 20A circuit. If you figure 17A per circuit and 85% efficient motors you're down to about 4.7 hp.....

 

[Desk Jockey]

Myth Busters Gardner style!

 

[dwellpro]

The Dwell unit has a heating element available. But I don't think you want that.. Unless you carry your own generator.

Run a heater without the high pressure motor and your Golden. 80 psi coming out of the wall. Roto-vac with flood jets? How much pressure do you use with your Roto-Vac?
What temp at the wand do truck mount operators clean with?

 

[dwellpro]

"........, two-cords worth of power just won't get you there."

Well, contrary to the honorable Larry's comment/opinion, I would respectfully disagree. Yes, I have had only 41 years in this Industry; some may consider this a "newbie" while others might consider it "experience".

Powerful? Two Cords?

I would suggest perhaps looking a little further...........................................


Best always;
Ed Valentine
cross-american corp.

The fact is pride in workmanship get it done Ed. Buyers of my machine go up against truck mounts everyday and win big. There overhead is low and the job gets done as well if not better than a truck.

Your the expert? Changed your method how many times in the 41 years? The last time you changed your method was? Has the surfaces and Dwellings being cleaned changed in this time? What temp do you clean with? Textiles cleaned should be dry in what amount of time? Do you have a gut? If so how long have you had it?
The common denominator of Dwell Pro owners are there physical appearance. I like to call it the non-lazy look. Lean and ready to move into another tax bracket. Just the facts sir.

 

[dwellpro]

No. I'm pretty sure mine has the original vac motors.. I was asking Kubasiewicz in the hardware room about them but I guess he doesn't get on here often.

Forget the heat.

You are not going to find the kind of heat output your looking for from anything that plugs into a wall… especially the amount of heat needed to keep up with the flow of a hard surface tool.


Consider how you can make up for the lack of heat using chemistry and a good scrubbin.

Auto-fill/dump is a very common, if not standard option from most manufacturers nowadays.

LTD12 is 200+ pounds.

The Dwell unit does not have any heating element.

How much heat. What tempneeds to hit the surface

 

[Dolly Llama]

What temp at the wand do truck mount operators clean with?

ATW?...hot ones, 200 and better
Many are capable of substantially more than that


..LT..A.

 

[Art Kelley]

The common denominator of Dwell Pro owners are there physical appearance. I like to call it the non-lazy look. Lean and ready to move into another tax bracket. Just the facts sir.

 

[Ed Valentine]

Ofer, you too certainly are a great sport! I am very glad you did not take my comments personally because they were certainly not meant as such. Only something to think about.

I do thank all above as well. Again, all great Gentlemen. And, thanks to another well known and terrific leader in our Industry, Jim Pemberton, for his comments. (Jim, I will never forget always being you and your wonderful Fathers booth neighbor at the PA Tri-State show!)

Dwellpro, unfortunately, I apologize because I didn't quit understand what you were trying to convey? But, thanks just the same.

Best;
Ed Valentine

 

[Willy P]

The fact is pride in workmanship get it done Ed. Buyers of my machine go up against truck mounts everyday and win big. There overhead is low and the job gets done as well if not better than a truck.

Your the expert? Changed your method how many times in the 41 years? The last time you changed your method was? Has the surfaces and Dwellings being cleaned changed in this time? What temp do you clean with? Textiles cleaned should be dry in what amount of time? Do you have a gut? If so how long have you had it?
The common denominator of Dwell Pro owners are there physical appearance. I like to call it the non-lazy look. Lean and ready to move into another tax bracket. Just the facts sir.

You might try posting sober..

 

[Willy P]

And a good marketing tool is to not alienate fat bastards. Fat bastards have spending money too....

 

[ruff]

The common denominator of Dwell Pro owners are there physical appearance. I like to call it the non-lazy look. Lean and ready to move into another tax bracket. Just the facts sir.

Here on MB we much prefer to refer to it as "the deer in the headlight" look.

A soon to be developed look, by all active "porty hacks"

Does the warranty include the years of therapy required due to PPSD (post porty stress disorder)?

 

[FB7777]

And a good marketing tool is to not alienate fat bastards. Fat bastards have spending money too....

Another is to perhaps get a proof reader for both writing errors and anger editing

Willy and I can afford to be a-holes here , we aren't selling anything

 

[Desk Jockey]

Does the warranty include the years of therapy required due to PPSD (post porty stress disorder)?

I've been telling you guys, working with a porty all those years will get to you.

 

[steve_64]

ill out clean all of ya!!!

just give it a couple days to dry...

 

[Shane Deubell]

The common denominator of Dwell Pro owners are there physical appearance. I like to call it the non-lazy look. Lean and ready to move into another tax bracket. Just the facts sir.

This is so classic, putting this bad boy in the vault for safe keeping.

 

[Willy P]

 

[Dolly Llama]

Dwellpro, unfortunately, I apologize because I didn't quit understand what you were trying to convey?

In a nut shell for you, Ed , that he's very oversensitive...among other things

..L.T.A.

 

[Jimmy L]

I's only here so I don'ts get fined.

 

[CCWorks]

It's a known constant - 746 watts equals one horsepower. Two 20A circuits - (if motors were 100% perfect and you could use all 20A without tripping the breaker) - gives you 6.4 horsepower - to run the vacs, pump, and any heat. That's why electric machines don't have equal performance. It's an energy thing. A TM's 20hp engine translates to 125 AMPS worth of 120V circuits. Give me that many amps and I (or anyone) can make an electric machine of equal performance to a TM.

In real life motors aren't 100% efficient and you can't actually get 20A out of a 20A circuit. If you figure 17A per circuit and 85% efficient motors you're down to about 4.7 hp.....

I could get real truck mount performance with 60 to 70 amps using only 6 electric vacuum motors.
I could have 10 to 12 HGs and 100 to 140 CFMs when wand is 100' away using 2" hose and when the wand is on the carpet cleaning carpet.
At the base of the machine it would test to have 400 CFMs and 200" of water lift.
4, 3 stage motors at about 10 amps and two 14 amp, 2 stage motors.
Even 6, 3 stage motors at about 10 amps, 190" water lift.
Never tested, but I think it is possible.

 

[dgardner]

Sure, but you still have to pump the solution - add enough amps to move 3 gpm at 1000 psi (that's about 15A right there). And you have to heat the water too - add a bunch more amps.

There's more to TM performance than moving air.....

 

[Dolly Llama]

I's only here so I don'ts get fined.

and they should of gave him the ball.
It will go down as one the greatest "WTF were you thinking?" moments in sports history


..L.T.A.

 

[tubad sosad]

never had a porty never want one. but i think the biggest differce is that a porty can do for example 220 cfms and 200 inchs of lift......on paper.......but not at the same time with wand on carpet. a tm can do that and more.....say 300 cfm and 15 inch of hg or 195 inchs of lift but at the same time everytime. now thats power and that is really a small tm with a 36 blower.

 

[CCWorks]

Sure, but you still have to pump the solution - add enough amps to move 3 gpm at 1000 psi (that's about 15A right there). And you have to heat the water too - add a bunch more amps.

There's more to TM performance than moving air.....

I understand what your saying one needs in the top performing systems.

To power a ETM with that many amps, I would need a 20 HP generator. A heat exchanger can be made to get the heat off the generator. May not be great heat with 3.0 gpm. but good for carpet cleaning.

 

[tubad sosad]

gee, sounds like a 2036 but you don't have to plug in any cords to use it.

 

[dgardner]

I understand what your saying one needs in the top performing systems.
To power a ETM with that many amps, I would need a 20 HP generator. A heat exchanger can be made to get the heat off the generator. May not be great heat with 3.0 gpm. but good for carpet cleaning.

Actually, in the TM world, that would be merely average performance.

And by saying you would need a 20 hp generator to power your system you have confirmed my earlier comparison with a 20 hp TM! So we agree!

 

[Jimmy L]

All those vac motors and when under load they struggle and slow down leaving them inept .

Whereby a blower will keep sucking until it breaks.

 

[dgardner]

Actually Jimmy when put under load the electric vacs speed up (try it with any vacuum cleaner), but they do struggle.....

 

[Willy P]

$625 monthly contract in the common areas of a condo building. $120 2 br empty suite.Minimum service call $90. Home early enough to cook dinner. Fuel cost -$20, but we have the highest gas prices in North America at $6+ a gallon. (131.9 liter). Customers happy, I make bank. People we're pressure washing plastic and vacuuming it up. The pile in nearly all cases in less than half an inch. A properly jetted electric system will dry in 3 to 6 hours with a competent operator. It ain't rocket science.

 

[Jimmy L]

Oh Willy you are so misinformed! What about the 50 bottles of chems to clean that simple little fiber? Huh?
This IS rocket science to many who STILL think that you need a degree to clean carpets! Just look at all of those youtube videos of dumasses of simpletons who just have to show you all of the steps! Some could make a 10 min, video on how to properly take the trash out of a 55 trash can. So don't tell ME..............this doesn't take a PHD to do!

MORON!

Hello Joel Hoppe! VLM klown!