prochem cheyenne 2008
- Thread starter extreme steam
- Start date
Ron Werner said:
That is a physically large machine.
I found this interesting:
With two 3-stage vacuum motors, Black Max provides the ultimate in portable extraction with 220” of water lift at 101 CFM. The Black Max has a powerful pump that delivers 1.25 GPM at 400 p.s.i
Did they just say 101 cfm was truck mount power?
I wish porty ads would list wand jetting next to their pressure and flow claims.....cause that is misleading.
I didn't see an Auto Pump out, maybe it's an add on option?
John LaBarbera
Member
When a manf. list dual 3 stage vacs, and the water lift is 220" the vacs are in air series (sucking through each other) the cfm is somewhat less than 100. When they list the same vacs but cfm is 200 the water lift is about 137" to 140". (this set-up is called air parallel) These are all maximun numbers that the unit in reality does not operate at. For instance a Recoil that is 300 cfm with 2-3 stages (117" water lift) and 1-2 stage (107" water lift I believe) the unit maximun is about 107" with 300 cfm. ( at about 19 amps on 1 cord with 1-3 stage and 1-2 stage, and cord #2 with a 3-stage and the pump at probably about 16 amps.) The question is where does the machine real perform at. Usually such an extreme difference in the main unit doesn't translate to the best performance. We have some equipment now that we'll allow us to test and determine where a particular machine is really performing at. We'll bring it to Connections if anyone would like to see. It's pretty interesting.
John
John
Brian R
Member
tmdry said:Brian Robison said:
your analogies crack me up that's all i gotta say...
Just trying to bring a real world perspective to the "Cleaning only" crew.
extreme steam
Member
John LaBarbera said:
this was my understanding too! thats why im so keen on it. someone should tell these guys http://www.janitorialdirect.co.uk/product/?pid=2578 to stop lying to there customers as i emailed them saying i think they have made a mistake but they assured me that it is 220 lift and 240 cfm flow.
Ron Werner said:
looks good but to much to send here
extreme steam
Member
hey greenie and john
http://www.prochem.co.uk/cheyenne.htm
this site is uk prochem who also stat these figures. could you take a look and tell me if i should trust them, my local supplier
http://www.cleaningsystems.co.nz/Portable/Cheyenne.htm
assures me its the same as uks version just with an upgradable pump, which is 220 in lift, 240 cfm, 209 deg heat, 500 psi pump option, local support. importing is too expensive so this appears to be the best value for me. i just want to know they are correct because i thought the same as what your telling me too.
pete
http://www.prochem.co.uk/cheyenne.htm
this site is uk prochem who also stat these figures. could you take a look and tell me if i should trust them, my local supplier
http://www.cleaningsystems.co.nz/Portable/Cheyenne.htm
assures me its the same as uks version just with an upgradable pump, which is 220 in lift, 240 cfm, 209 deg heat, 500 psi pump option, local support. importing is too expensive so this appears to be the best value for me. i just want to know they are correct because i thought the same as what your telling me too.
pete
John LaBarbera
Member
Hi Pete,
I looked at both ads, and do not see the cfm posted. This Prochem unit appears to be the same as our 1005. They are in air series for the high water lift. That set up produces less than a 100 cfm. The 1005 is in parallel, the water lift is 137" and 200 cfm. Is looks like they are playing with the numbers. It also looks like the heater is and option with it's own power cord. (thus 3 cords altogether) Hope this helps.
John
I looked at both ads, and do not see the cfm posted. This Prochem unit appears to be the same as our 1005. They are in air series for the high water lift. That set up produces less than a 100 cfm. The 1005 is in parallel, the water lift is 137" and 200 cfm. Is looks like they are playing with the numbers. It also looks like the heater is and option with it's own power cord. (thus 3 cords altogether) Hope this helps.
John
Mikey P
Administrator
I'm just impressed that Ricky is reading threads about portables.
Heathrow
Member
Peter, have you seen the Mytee for sale on Trademe?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Business-farmi ... 741732.htm
Looks like a pretty capable machine and you have the man himself right here to give you the lowdown on it...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Business-farmi ... 741732.htm
Looks like a pretty capable machine and you have the man himself right here to give you the lowdown on it...
extreme steam
Member
greenie,
hey mate sorry if im sounding like a broken record, its just that ive only got 3 makes to choose from in this country (with back up support) and to send anything here even from aussie is lots. there is nothing in the world that i can have sent here for nz$9000 that is anywhere near these figures. i appreciate your opinion but do you have any evidence that prochem is full of shit? im on 240 volts so if you hear of a machine that i can get here for 9 grand that is even close to 220 lift, 240 cfm, 209 deg heat, 500 psi waterpump, 240 volt or can prove prochem is full of shit please let me know and ill get over this issue quik......promise
no disrespect just trying to get the best value i can.
nz$1800 shipping (from UK),
1 british pound = nz$2.70,
us$1 = nz$1.30
12.5 % import tax
If anyone can help thanks in advance
pete
hey mate sorry if im sounding like a broken record, its just that ive only got 3 makes to choose from in this country (with back up support) and to send anything here even from aussie is lots. there is nothing in the world that i can have sent here for nz$9000 that is anywhere near these figures. i appreciate your opinion but do you have any evidence that prochem is full of shit? im on 240 volts so if you hear of a machine that i can get here for 9 grand that is even close to 220 lift, 240 cfm, 209 deg heat, 500 psi waterpump, 240 volt or can prove prochem is full of shit please let me know and ill get over this issue quik......promise
no disrespect just trying to get the best value i can.
nz$1800 shipping (from UK),
1 british pound = nz$2.70,
us$1 = nz$1.30
12.5 % import tax
If anyone can help thanks in advance
pete
extreme steam
Member
Heathrow said:
yeah seriously considering it, actually had the tab open when i read your post!
pete
Pete, I don't know what you want for proof, you get the cfm OR the waterlift from two vac motors, you can not have both! That would require 4 vacs and two stand pipes in the tank.
pick your poison, you want air-series vacs, or air-parallel?
And it's got nothing to do with Prochem, we have lots of good PC dealers, it's just an uneducated salesman that is misdirected.
Since I'm the "rain on parade" guy today, might as well drop a bomb.
On these smaller DC pumps, your operating pressure is directly affected by the jetting on the wand, a "500 psi" pump may only deliver 1/2 of that pressure with a decent wand, to get "full pressure" from it, you would need to have installed tiny jets on the wand, which is actually counter-productive because you are now misting the carpet with a finely atomised spray, instead of rinsing the carpet with some decent water flow.
Now, that said, if you can get 300 psi from it with a pair of 110 03 jets, I'd be happy with that as a balance point.
Heat: there are very few elec. heaters that will warm a tank of room temperature water to 200ºf, let alone higher. And you would cut that final temp by 50-70ºf if you used my wand jet example above. I don't even want to think of what you would have if you started with some real cold water like so many do, and what salesmen tend to indicate when they reference 209º!!!
I would slam an extra quick connect into your sol. line, and drop it into the tank, and let the heater run for 15-20 mins. in constant cycle with a full 12 gal tank while setting up the job, hopefully you get it up to 120ºf by then, and now when you clean, as your pre-heated water is reheated for one more cycle on a 33% duty cycle, you can get a nice boost on the fly. You will need to repeat this every 12 gal.
If a unit has a true 200cfm (air-parallel), try and make use of 2" vac hose with a 2" hook-up on the machine, not as important with a 100 cfm machine.
I hope this helps a little.
btw: I don't know if that Mytee is 240v. but it looks like a good buy locally.
pick your poison, you want air-series vacs, or air-parallel?
And it's got nothing to do with Prochem, we have lots of good PC dealers, it's just an uneducated salesman that is misdirected.
Since I'm the "rain on parade" guy today, might as well drop a bomb.
On these smaller DC pumps, your operating pressure is directly affected by the jetting on the wand, a "500 psi" pump may only deliver 1/2 of that pressure with a decent wand, to get "full pressure" from it, you would need to have installed tiny jets on the wand, which is actually counter-productive because you are now misting the carpet with a finely atomised spray, instead of rinsing the carpet with some decent water flow.
Now, that said, if you can get 300 psi from it with a pair of 110 03 jets, I'd be happy with that as a balance point.
Heat: there are very few elec. heaters that will warm a tank of room temperature water to 200ºf, let alone higher. And you would cut that final temp by 50-70ºf if you used my wand jet example above. I don't even want to think of what you would have if you started with some real cold water like so many do, and what salesmen tend to indicate when they reference 209º!!!
I would slam an extra quick connect into your sol. line, and drop it into the tank, and let the heater run for 15-20 mins. in constant cycle with a full 12 gal tank while setting up the job, hopefully you get it up to 120ºf by then, and now when you clean, as your pre-heated water is reheated for one more cycle on a 33% duty cycle, you can get a nice boost on the fly. You will need to repeat this every 12 gal.
If a unit has a true 200cfm (air-parallel), try and make use of 2" vac hose with a 2" hook-up on the machine, not as important with a 100 cfm machine.
I hope this helps a little.
btw: I don't know if that Mytee is 240v. but it looks like a good buy locally.
Heathrow
Member
Peter I looked at quite a few systems when I thought I was going to operate with a porty, and all the guys I spoke to that had used the different heating units were not that impressed, and I looked at a few and talked to a lot of guys. The best feedback I had was from people using lpg heaters to heat the water, leaving them at the door of the house and using a vac booster as well. To me that was just too much pi$$ing around.
I definitely wouldn't count on the porty you're looking at to provide heat in the TM sense of the word.
Possibly Ross in wellington (roro) could offer you some realistic advice as he has experience with lots of 240v gear which I think he uses regularly in that hilly neighborhood with no driveways.
ps - guys in the states don't understand that we're not part of Australia. You'll find a lot of US manufacturers have agreements with Aussie agents who have the rights to New Zealand as well, so we're paying two lots of international freight (or having the ticket clipped by the Aussies for direct freight from US). Then we still have the problem of having to deal with someone in another country for service. That's just business I suppose.
I definitely wouldn't count on the porty you're looking at to provide heat in the TM sense of the word.
Possibly Ross in wellington (roro) could offer you some realistic advice as he has experience with lots of 240v gear which I think he uses regularly in that hilly neighborhood with no driveways.
ps - guys in the states don't understand that we're not part of Australia. You'll find a lot of US manufacturers have agreements with Aussie agents who have the rights to New Zealand as well, so we're paying two lots of international freight (or having the ticket clipped by the Aussies for direct freight from US). Then we still have the problem of having to deal with someone in another country for service. That's just business I suppose.
Heathrow
Member
Exactly Greenie - we're just small fry, and that's just business!
Walt
Member
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2007
- Messages
- 1,016
I have heard terrible things about the Black Max here. Two places here rent them. I called both places and both were down with electrical vac issues. The guys in the shop said they've been having problems with them. Haven't tried it though.
Try US products. Jon Don is running a special on the solus with evo wand. Sub 4k.
Try US products. Jon Don is running a special on the solus with evo wand. Sub 4k.
Ya know, I was thinking about this thread today, since service and local support was first mentioned (sorry for the detour on specs), and It really comes down to...Everything breaks eventually, buy from the guy that will welcome your call, gets parts fast, and is happy to service your machine with honesty and get you back on the road. This will probably Not be your lowest bidder, so choose wisely.
Greenie said:
I would challenge any manufacturer to make a porty with as much juice as my modified old Ninja. Real water pressure from a 500 PSI General pump and 2 sets of 2 stage in series to a parallel. 3 cords, two with nothing running and I could squeak a light on with the third. Still not a truck mount, but it was awesome- Except for: weight- 150 pounds of dead weight to toss in and out of the van, the extra vacs were in a tool box that hooked up to the extra port on the lid, great flow but lots of fill&dump.I can't remember the jetting, but my friend used it for his Cleanco and it worked fine. The local dude who made the mods for the pump and dual two stage vacs on the Ninja passed on, the machine, that I still have so when I build my dream porty I have a guide to work from, was pretty burned up in a van fire while in a mechanics shop. It took me 5 years to burn out the first pump, the vacs just got replaced as time went on.One day......
John LaBarbera
Member
Hi Willy P,
That's quite a machine and the man that built it was a real innovator. The real challenge of a machine with 3 cords is that most carpet cleaners won't buy it, though they would like the power. Electrically powered unit are face with amp and electric circuit limitations. We have a circuit locater on our dual cord units which helps in finding separate circuits but they will not work on 3 cords.
What has been very popular are our 230 volt electric dryer adapters. This allows the operator to get 2 separate 20 amp 120 volt circuits in one location. Very convenient and practical. While it may not be usable all the time it's worth having it available. And they are not expensive. A set of two ( 3 and 4 prong) is only $150.00 from your distributor.
If you are attending the Connections show we will have a new portable that will at the least approach your challenge. We like challenges and the ideas of the professional carpet cleaner (even if they don't like portables) helps Mytee to improve and so we encourage all of you to continue with your comments. With your help one of these days a portable extractor just may be the most practical, economical, versatile and powerful machine we would all like them to be. One thing for sure the portables of today are a big improvement from what they started off from. I guess the same could be said of truckmounts.
John
That's quite a machine and the man that built it was a real innovator. The real challenge of a machine with 3 cords is that most carpet cleaners won't buy it, though they would like the power. Electrically powered unit are face with amp and electric circuit limitations. We have a circuit locater on our dual cord units which helps in finding separate circuits but they will not work on 3 cords.
What has been very popular are our 230 volt electric dryer adapters. This allows the operator to get 2 separate 20 amp 120 volt circuits in one location. Very convenient and practical. While it may not be usable all the time it's worth having it available. And they are not expensive. A set of two ( 3 and 4 prong) is only $150.00 from your distributor.
If you are attending the Connections show we will have a new portable that will at the least approach your challenge. We like challenges and the ideas of the professional carpet cleaner (even if they don't like portables) helps Mytee to improve and so we encourage all of you to continue with your comments. With your help one of these days a portable extractor just may be the most practical, economical, versatile and powerful machine we would all like them to be. One thing for sure the portables of today are a big improvement from what they started off from. I guess the same could be said of truckmounts.
John
extreme steam
Member
so....
I have decided to look at building a home built system capable of cleaning anything.
WATER SYSTEM cold water supply, into a small water blaster through a little giant heater and long pressure hose to reach anywhere.
VACUUM custom built portable box unit with ametek lamb vacuums. I will have 2 x 15 amp 230v. Thats 6900w less 20% = 5500w, roughly
Subtract from this an APO pump to discharge water and i should still be left with a shit load of watts to suck like a $5000 hooker.
Can anyone recommend a reliable well priced APO?
advantages
As good as most truck mounts but a fraction of the cost
Reliable and all repairs can be done by myself
Low petrol consumption as engine only drives the water pump
Short vacuum hose, long pump out hose means no loss of vacuum
Just got to decide on which configuration of vacuums to use. Is 10 in Hg plenty when using glides because without complete seal higher lift potential is irrelevant? If im right about that i could get near 300 CFM. With 220 deg heat and 350 psi should be fast, clean, dry and cheap.
Any thoughts?
I have decided to look at building a home built system capable of cleaning anything.
WATER SYSTEM cold water supply, into a small water blaster through a little giant heater and long pressure hose to reach anywhere.
VACUUM custom built portable box unit with ametek lamb vacuums. I will have 2 x 15 amp 230v. Thats 6900w less 20% = 5500w, roughly
Subtract from this an APO pump to discharge water and i should still be left with a shit load of watts to suck like a $5000 hooker.
Can anyone recommend a reliable well priced APO?
advantages
As good as most truck mounts but a fraction of the cost
Reliable and all repairs can be done by myself
Low petrol consumption as engine only drives the water pump
Short vacuum hose, long pump out hose means no loss of vacuum
Just got to decide on which configuration of vacuums to use. Is 10 in Hg plenty when using glides because without complete seal higher lift potential is irrelevant? If im right about that i could get near 300 CFM. With 220 deg heat and 350 psi should be fast, clean, dry and cheap.
Any thoughts?
extreme steam
Member
I found out the vacs used in the UK prochem 240v units (220 lift, 240 cfm) is 2 x ametek lamb lamb 11719-13. However i couldnt find these motors , i did find 117195-13 on there site but the link was dead.
Can anyone locate these motor numbers on the net? I use mozilla firefox and couldnt get anything.
pete
Can anyone locate these motor numbers on the net? I use mozilla firefox and couldnt get anything.
pete
extreme steam
Member
Water lift / airflow
Powerflo = 3556 mm (140") / 70.7 l/s (150 cfm)
Powermax & Powerplus = 5588mm (220")/113 l/s (240 cfm)
I copied this from prochem uk website. There manuals state the powerflow has 1x 11719-13 lamb motor while the max and plus models have 2x 11719-13 lamb motors. I know this isnt making any mathematical sense because you can increase lift by 75% or flow by 100% depending on series/parallel. Someone should email them and tell them to explain, as they advertise these figures through all their distributors.
Has anyone been able to locate these vacuums on the net?
pete
Powerflo = 3556 mm (140") / 70.7 l/s (150 cfm)
Powermax & Powerplus = 5588mm (220")/113 l/s (240 cfm)
I copied this from prochem uk website. There manuals state the powerflow has 1x 11719-13 lamb motor while the max and plus models have 2x 11719-13 lamb motors. I know this isnt making any mathematical sense because you can increase lift by 75% or flow by 100% depending on series/parallel. Someone should email them and tell them to explain, as they advertise these figures through all their distributors.
Has anyone been able to locate these vacuums on the net?
pete
RalphNZ
Member
HI Guys,
I am the Service Manager for Cleaning Systems Ltd, NZ and would be very interested in any information on our website that was unclear or simply wrong. Our aim here is to match up people with appropriate products and establish a long term relationship thereafter.
We are aware our website is not what it should be and is currently undergoing a major re-design but like all good things, it will take time.
Make contact with us direct if you need clarification on any specifications we have displayed.
Bye for now
extreme steam
Member
HI Guys,
I am the Service Manager for Cleaning Systems Ltd, NZ and would be very interested in any information on our website that was unclear or simply wrong. Our aim here is to match up people with appropriate products and establish a long term relationship thereafter.
We are aware our website is not what it should be and is currently undergoing a major re-design but like all good things, it will take time.
Make contact with us direct if you need clarification on any specifications we have displayed.
Bye for now[/quote]
Hello Ralph,
Firstly i would just like to say that i have spoken to your Auckland office and Dunedin office and the help and advise was outstanding. It took some time but we managed to establish that the model you have in this country does not use the same vac motors as uk prochem use in theirs. My grump was to do with prochem uks figures for cfm and lift which a few people here have promised me is not possible. I cant get proof from anyone but as it happens i have taken a new job with a well established company and therefore any plans to begin my own company have been scraped for the near future anyway. (dependent on opportunity for advancement and future earning potential)
I am the Service Manager for Cleaning Systems Ltd, NZ and would be very interested in any information on our website that was unclear or simply wrong. Our aim here is to match up people with appropriate products and establish a long term relationship thereafter.
We are aware our website is not what it should be and is currently undergoing a major re-design but like all good things, it will take time.
Make contact with us direct if you need clarification on any specifications we have displayed.
Bye for now[/quote]
Hello Ralph,
Firstly i would just like to say that i have spoken to your Auckland office and Dunedin office and the help and advise was outstanding. It took some time but we managed to establish that the model you have in this country does not use the same vac motors as uk prochem use in theirs. My grump was to do with prochem uks figures for cfm and lift which a few people here have promised me is not possible. I cant get proof from anyone but as it happens i have taken a new job with a well established company and therefore any plans to begin my own company have been scraped for the near future anyway. (dependent on opportunity for advancement and future earning potential)
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