Rebuilding my Vortex's

[bob vawter]

this shit ain't rocket science....actually i'm AMAZED at the people that don't know which way to turn a nut or a bolt....let along DESIGN something......
astonished is more the word....

if a bolt and nut is "upsidedown" you're lost!

 

[ronbeatty]

 

[Jim Martin]

Ron........I am not saying that you are wrong....I am not standing in front of it looking at it myself...I am only going off the pictures..........but there are a few things that I am not understanding......

I have looked at that picture 100 times in 300 different directions and for the life of me I just can't understand how the feet bent out would cause the blower to bind.....that thing is pretty ridged and the fabricated feet should really have nothing to do with any thing.....all they are...are mounting points....one thing that I do notice in the picture is that the blower is not sitting flat.....there is a slight taper going up to the right....it also appears that the hole where you took the bolt out is not lined up straight.....and this would also account for the blower not sitting level.....it looks like from the pictures that when it was installed it should of been shimmed level..and if this was the case that would of in time put a bind on the belts not running true and wearing the inter edge of the seal....


on the other picture .the one where you said the heat caused the warp....is that a rubber boot that is holding the 2 parts together that looks like it split....???.....I can not see what is warped....to be honest I have never seen hot exhaust heat up enough to warp metal that thick...can you pin point to me what I am looking at.....

 

[Mikey P]

Ron when the blower manufacture told you to remount the things with no tilt did they also tell you to never run them in a driveway with a slant to it?


That whole expenditure was a mistake imo, getting rid of those after blower HX and going propane should be the answer



I understand that Les has one all packed up and ready to go for you if you cover the shipping and handling charges

 

[ronbeatty]

Jim, the legs warped pulling down on the impeller case, when I removed the bolt the blower case relaxed into the correct alignment. The mount is 1/4 inch plate, not rubber. The report on the blower was from a reputable source.

 

[ronbeatty]

Jim, The rubber is just the flex pipe between the blower and the silencer. I had to cut it off.

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim, the legs warped pulling down on the impeller case, when I removed the bolt the blower case relaxed into the correct alignment. The mount is 1/4 inch plate, not rubber. The report on the blower was from a reputable source.

and once again I am not saying that he is wrong.....but from what I see and from what you just said....I think the proper shimming should of been done in the first place.....so that when the thing was mounted in place the unit would of been lined up ......It is very rare to see any type of metal to metal mounting that sits perfect...all the huge 3 phase motors and large blower that I have worked on always needed some type of shimming to make the belt run true........level your truck up..then take everything lose......level and shim the thing so it sits perfect...put that bolt back and and run it for awhile and see what happens...........I am only trying to help you out here.....removing the bolt will only bandage your problem....if you want a long term fix.....shim it....there should be no taper........



in a nut shell........when some one is tightening down the mounting bolts and the thing has an air gap in between the 2 metal pieces.....something needs to be shimmed and leveled to keep it from warping the feet and making sure the thing is nice and level..........

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim, The rubber is just the flex pipe between the blower and the silencer. I had to cut it off.

so what is warped..........

 

[bob vawter]

where as MY PTO's have a built in "engine tilt"...it looks like you guys have a carrier housing that straightens your shaft out a lot.....wonder WTF they put that "tilt" in there?

 

[Bjorn]

I'm going to ask this question

so what do you want?

Life time free support and parts labour and time lost costs covered

sure why not

 

[Jim Martin]

where as MY PTO's have a built in "engine tilt"...it looks like you guys have a carrier housing that straightens your shaft out a lot.....wonder WTF they put that "tilt" in there?

under the truck is the 2 carrier bearings that hook to the PTO shaft.......it looks like they tried to line the blower up to the off set of the shaft...(?)...who knows....almost every single one that was made..except maybe the 777 were done this way.....none of them run real true....the PTO's run on 3 belts.....and the inside belt was alway a bit more lose then the others......you can put a white chalk mark on them and run it one job and the marks will be way off.....that was always a problem with a few that would call me....over time the inside belt would start to squeal a bit because it always ran a bit lose.......so the first thing they would do is crank on the adjuster and tighten the belts up and end up throwing a seal because it was way to tight.............I shimmed the ass of mine up just a bit higher to try to level the belts out....never got it perfect....but never ever had a problem with squealing belts or bad seals......

 

[bob vawter]

[quote="bob vawter":9jfoh82z]where as MY PTO's have a built in "engine tilt"...it looks like you guys have a carrier housing that straightens your shaft out a lot.....wonder WTF they put that "tilt" in there?

under the truck is the 2 carrier bearings that hook to the PTO shaft.......it looks like they tried to line the blower up to the off set of the shaft...(?)...who knows....almost every single one that was made..except maybe the 777 were done this way.....none of them run real true....the PTO's run on 3 belts.....and the inside belt was alway a bit more lose then the others......you can put a white chalk mark on them and run it one job and the marks will be way off.....that was always a problem with a few that would call me....over time the inside belt would start to squeal a bit because it always ran a bit lose.......so the first thing they would do is crank on the adjuster and tighten the belts up and end up throwing a seal because it was way to tight.............I shimmed the ass of mine up just a bit higher to try to level the belts out....never got it perfect....but never ever had a problem with squealing belts or bad seals......[/quote:9jfoh82z]

would this be a bad place to mention how simple my Genie PTO hooks up....?

an' THIS is the bracket to KEEP the A/C.....

 

[Bjorn]

z]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZHqzimzulgz]

 

[ronbeatty]

Sam, I went to an HVAC supply and bought a foaming coil cleaner. I pull the coils out and sprayed them liberally with the coil cleaner, then let them sit for 15 minutes then flushed the with an open ended garden hose. If this is the first time you do it, you may have to repeat this tell the water runs clean.

 

[ronbeatty]

Jim, If you look at the picture you will see that I am shimming the carrier bearing on the cradle to line the pulleys up. That blower weighs 450 lb, if you tryed to shim it on top of the cradle the legs would not have the full support of the mounting cradle.

 

[Bjorn]

so what do you expect

your money back?

life time parts with cash compensation for down time

 

[sam gm]

Thankyou ,ill try it

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim, If you look at the picture you will see that I am shimming the carrier bearing on the cradle to line the pulleys up. That blower weighs 450 lb, if you tryed to shim it on top of the cradle the legs would not have the full support of the mounting cradle.

but from what I am seeing and reading....your problem was up top .....once that bolt was tightened down...the blower did not sit flush on the plate...one of them..if not both were not straight/flat.......so instead of pulling them together..because of how the foot was made on the mount....the mount just pulled down and left the blower un level....if a shim or a washer was put between the plate and the blower to make up for the difference....it may have saved you a few headaches......it may be hard to tell if the blower is off some where but try putting a straight edge on the plate and see if it is flat or warped.............I am willing to bet that because of the way the mount pulled down......one of them is off.....

 

[ronbeatty]

Terge, I have been cleaning carpet full time for 34 years, I have owned 2 Hydramaster Hydracats and 12 Butlers and never replaced or rebuilt a single blower. These issues started while the blowers were under warranty, the factory service center recommended removing the angle from the blower mount because of the settling of fine grit into the oil seal on the low side of the blower.

I have maintained my equipment to the factory spec, I should get more time out of a blower than 18 months. It is great for the manufacturer if they can sell you a $8000.00 blower every 18 months, but not so good for me. Ask Mark Saiger what he thinks of the 6 year old Butler he bought from me.

 

[Bjorn]

ah hell you make millions whats a few blowers get a laser level slip a book of matches under there and your good to go

 

[ronbeatty]

somewhat amus

 

[steve g]

people always wondered why I bashed vortex SOOO bad, it is precisely because I didn't want a good hard working guy like Ron to get hosed with a white elephant machine. he has paid 100k for a machine that he has had to redesign himself, WTF!!!!!!!! if people would have just listened to me from the get go.

ron a few months ago you were singing the praises of how great the vortex was, others at the time privately told me how many problems you were having. its good you are finally admitting it, so others are spared the problems.

one question, why did you choose a vortex over an aerotech??

 

[ronbeatty]

Steve, When they are running right there is nothing like them shiteatinggrin , when they are not there is nothing like them . I bought the Vortex because I had a local distributor and felt more comfortable operating with them heat transfer system because of how cold it get here. I was not told that Blueline was a new Vortex manufacturer and that there really was not a professional engineer working on this project. If I would have known that I probably would have bought the Aerotech unit.

 

[steve g]

IMO the aerotech system is and has been superior to the vortex's brake fluid intermediate system. aerotech puts the exhaust HX in the box of the truck for cold climates so that is not a problem. not that I am saying one should run out and buy an aerotech, I think in 2 years from now, aerotech will not be making machines anymore. with that said its not a good idea buying any machine from a company that will soon stop making them.

Ron I hope you get it sorted out and things start working great for you again.

 

[ronbeatty]

Steve, Good advice, have a Merry Christmas.

 

[Mike Draper]

Even if AT stops making their TM, they will always service them. their fabrication shop will always be their bread and butter, and that is what will keep them in business, not their TM.

 

[Mikey P]

I think in 2 years from now, aerotech will not be making machines anymore.

you're being very generous.

 

[Dave Rampage]

I disagree with Steve. I believe the AT will be going strong in 2013 and beyond. Everybody said AT would not last and Vortex was king. Look now Vortex is gone and AT is doing great.

I just talked to Vladimir and they have a lot of R & D going on now. They have some great things happening with machine design and sound levels.

Dave

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Who's the finance wiz that will be able to get them financed?

 

[Dave Rampage]

Aerotech builds the parts for I believe for 6 trucks at a time. If they have no trucks to assemble, they can put their people on another project. Aerotech is very well diversified in other industries. They are much larger than these puny truckmount manufacturers in our industry. They will be around. I said this same thing when everyone was bowing and kissing their god Shawn york's ass and making fun of Aerotech.

Face it boys, Aerotech is here to stay. I have owned mine for 5 1/2 years and still love it. I have had no problems with it and will buy another when I eventually wear this one out. Maybe 5 more years.

Dave ( proud AT owner)