So Who's Liable?

[Doug Rice]

You will. Steve Toburen had a great way post a few months ago about how to check these faucets. I believe it was in the fall before the cold hit.
I think John is correct. Call your insurance company and get them involved.

 

[John Watson]

Steve T said "Buy a female cap with a rubber hose washer inside that will thread on any faucet bib. After tightening the cap on the hose bib briefly turn on the faucet slightly and listen closely. (You can also keep your hand on the faucet to feel the vibration of running water.) If you can hear (or feel) running water the faucet has an internal rupture inside the wall. Turn it off immediately, inform the homeowner and find your water supply elsewhere."

Before my Alaskan partners screwed me. They had purchased about 20 of the female caps. their plan was to place them on homes during a cold snap. Before they thawed, remove and turn off the valve. The plan was then to market the home with our services and include a special water damage discount flyer with coupon for up to $250.00 off so we would cover their deductable. The next spring we would know where some of our jobs would be. We had our falling out before it became a reality. I am sorry to say I was included in this way of thinking when I was a true butthole and changed my ways..

 

[everfresh1]

I know the faucet well....

They are frost free..

Often when a hose is left connected in cold weather, water will not drain from the neck of the valve. Freeze and break.
It will only leak when turned on.

So, I always.. Year around connect, turn on, kink hose and listen. Often besides hearing you can feel the hose does not back up pressure. A sure sign the neck is leaking.

IMO, if this happened to me, I'd roll over and take blame.
I would feel this was my mistake.
But maybe because I know better.

I come across just 5-10 broken valves a year.

Something else I do, because I don't use on board water.

Often I always use my own hose when connected.

But if I used the clients, I always discounted it after use in the colder months. No matter if it was or was not connected before hand.
When using my own hose, I never reconnect theirs in the cold months.

Sorry it happened to you.

I'd take blame, but not offer blame.

Nicely illustrated.

I learned all about this stuff the hard way while cleaning carpets at 6,000 feet in Colorado. One BIG tip off in the spring was when we saw a client's hose connected to the faucet after a hard winter. (Don't ask me how I learned this.)

It is probably too late now that emotions are all heated up on all sides. But wisdom of hindsight and IF I had the W/D equipment and training I just would have gone in and done the whole loss. Much cheaper than having an outside water restoration company called in and being charged their Exactimate pricing.

But now that the other company is on it call your insurance company and hope for the best.

Steve Toburen
http://www.SFS.JonDon.com

PS I would NEVER say I told you so (OK, maybe just this once) but almost exactly one year ago (March 8, 2011) we ran the following "warning for Spring hose hook-ups" in our weekly SFS QuickTIPS:
http://sfs.jondon.com/8390/resources/qu ... his-spring

"Surprise! So-called “frost proof” water faucets will freeze and split internally if a hose is left attached over the winter. However, this hidden rupture won’t be noticed until AFTER an unsuspecting cleaner hooks his hose up and turns on the faucet. So while the carpets are getting cleaning upstairs the home’s lower level is being inundated from the ruptured tubing hidden inside the wall. (Don’t ask me how I learned this!) Time to change your procedures …

Buy a female cap with a rubber hose washer inside that will thread on any faucet bib. After tightening the cap on the hose bib briefly turn on the faucet slightly and listen closely. (You can also keep your hand on the faucet to feel the vibration of running water.) If you can hear (or feel) running water the faucet has an internal rupture inside the wall. Turn it off immediately, inform the homeowner and find your water supply elsewhere.

Bonus TIP: Be very cautious early in the spring time with an outside hose bib that appears to have had a hose attached to it all winter. Very likely it is an “accident waiting to happen”. I know I did way too many “free water damage losses” and replaced too many hose faucets that the homeowner was sure had “burst due to your cleaning pressure”.

So be very, very careful and test all water faucets with your cap until later in the season when the home owner has discovered the broken faucet on their own when watering their lawn. After all, when the home owner floods their own home it then becomes a PAID water loss that you can make big money on!

BTW, our every Tuesday QuickTIP is also available on Mikey's Blog up above. So you don't even have to leave this addictive place to read it.

Thanks.... That’s a good idea I'll definitely buy some of those caps

 

[glenboy]

i did all vacant apt cleaning in the 90s and the guy that i worked for always told me " do not use an outside hook up in the winter. so i had to run hose sometimes three units up to get water.i feel bad you have to deal with that.on behalf of me who could not sleep over a customer call back sayin their basement carpet has a bad odor.i wish u luck fellow Detroiter

 

[everfresh1]

i did all vacant apt cleaning in the 90s and the guy that i worked for always told me " do not use an outside hook up in the winter. so i had to run hose sometimes three units up to get water.i feel bad you have to deal with that.on behalf of me who could not sleep over a customer call back sayin their basement carpet has a bad odor.i wish u luck fellow Detroiter

Thank you sir

 

[renegade_cowboy]

How did it go Jamie?

Can you give us an update.

 

[steve g]

so what did you end up doing to fix the problem???? this was a rookie mistake pure and simple. myself and everyone I teach is taught to freeze check the faucet. just hook up the hose kink it turn on the hose, listen and feel if you feel the water flow stop when the hose is kinked its fine, if the tone of the water flow doesn't change you can feel water still flowing you have an issue. just last week I cleaned for a neighbor and family friend. she did not tell me the faucet was bad, but I checked it then went in an asked if there was a problem with the faucet she confirmed there was. fortunately it was in an unfinished basement and it didn't matter that a 1/2 gallon of water spilled out. they had just left the faucet unrepaired for the last couple years.

I love poorly installed freeze proof faucets they provide a ton of work for me every year, although this year will probably still sucks because, the winter has sucked. the bottom line is if it was me I would have taken care of the cleanup at the very least. when I worked for a large restoration occasionally a rookie tech would reflood someones basement when they went to clean the carpets. the restoration company always took care of fixing the extra damage.

 

[Jtuseo]

#1 dont call insurense company or a lawyer unless you are sued. 2nd nothing is going to happen to you if you are a corporation. If you got sued your lawyer would laugh at this. They have to prove you caused it. They have to prove the water was not in there before you, there is so much to prove. And in the end you can just dissolve your corporation. The lawyer for the ins. company on the other side knows this. They will just cover the claim, nothing will happen to you. Dont feel sorry for these people. They will try to screw you at all cost, when push comes to shove over $$$$

 

[everfresh1]

How did it go Jamie?

Can you give us an update.

Well... I told the women who lives in the apt to call me with a list of the damaged items. At first she was saying Stereo, PlayStation but she didn’t know till she got back into the apt...She never called, I’m assuming those things were fine. I haven't heard anything from the complex either, they could still serve me for a lawsuit I guess, but nothing as of yet

 

[Stone Dude]

Just finished a job. Stripping, refinishing and polsihing over 1000 feet of travertine. I use blue painters tape for delicate surfaces on the walls first, then plastic then duct tape. The delicate tape peeled paint off the wall. The paint and paint prep were done poorly. For me to say "its not my fault" won't do me any good, it only puts people in a defensive position. Found the paint in the garage and spent 4 hours touching up the walls without mentioning it to the client.

Point is, even though I'm certain I was not neglegent and didn't cause the problem, I was the last one to touch it. From the clients perspective its your fault. Usually situations like this cn be worked out, but just saying "its not my fault" right off the bat isn't going to work in your favor.

 

[Stone Dude]

#1 dont call insurense company or a lawyer unless you are sued. 2nd nothing is going to happen to you if you are a corporation. If you got sued your lawyer would laugh at this. They have to prove you caused it. They have to prove the water was not in there before you, there is so much to prove. And in the end you can just dissolve your corporation. The lawyer for the ins. company on the other side knows this. They will just cover the claim, nothing will happen to you. Dont feel sorry for these people. They will try to screw you at all cost, when push comes to shove over $$$$

This is wishful thinking, its not quite that simple. It would likely go to arbitration, and even with a mountain of evidence in your favor, you can still be ruled against. Unfortunately, I know this.