your worst enemy

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Ron lippold
So we know we cant be the everything to everyone. who do you pick to work for. I can seem to tell from the get go who is going to be a problem. I say charge enough so if you have a pain in the ass customer it does not come out of your pocket.

I have been getting alot of price shoppers lately, and it bugs... When they realize im not going to give them a firm price on the phone they hang up... Well i would rather work for people that will let me come out and give them a fim price.

For me it just works better that way..

Who dictates what you charge????? you or the customer...........
 

Brian R

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My standard answer to people now if price is an issue or a few other things is "I'm not Walmart"
Seems to work.
 
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Ron we all want higher prices and better customers. If I were you I would use some slight of hand. Offer a basic cleaning (no prevac or funiture moving or even just a lmc) for a cheaper price. Tell the customer you also offer a more detailed cleaning for a higher price on the phone. Basically tell them you will work with them and cater a cleaning that fits their budget. Once you get in the door most will want the better job. They just don't know it untill you show up with your bad ass truck. If they want a basic cleaining, then give them that service. I too was turning loads of price shoppers away when I should have been more flexible instead of only thinking I should provide the best service I can. Hope this helps.

Remember most consumers even the filthy rich just want a good job at a fair price. I don't know anyone that wants to pay 500 for a cleaning when someone else will do just as good a job or close to the same job for half.
 
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im lucky enough to have some really good customers. imo the price shoppers are not even worth wasting your time on. imo if they wont let me in the house for a free estimate they are not my customer.

the price shoppers are just that they will never be your client, it they will always want a lower price and a cheaper job.
 

Dolly Llama

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Who dictates what you charge????? you or the customer..


neither.
the market dictates the price.
Doesn't matter if it's the low end, hi end or somewhere in the middle.
The market still sets the pace where ever you are



Remember most consumers even the filthy rich just want a good job at a fair price.
I don't know anyone that wants to pay 500 for a cleaning when someone else will do just as good a job or close to the same job for half

an-at's a fact Jack

Just like the market on the low end and middle has tightened up, so too has the market at the top end.
Gone are the days of easily selling ice to Eskimos ....


..L.T.A.
 
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larry i think you are wrong there brother.... even in this down market the ice is still moving... we have guys doing whole house specials for 79.95 and we have guys charging .59 a foot...... everyone seems to be doing ok.


it seems the ones charging a small price cant over come the ups and downs though.

This is why i think most of us are our own worst enemy.. We would not pay the price it takes to stay in business and make a profit...... We are professional business people entitled to make a profit if wanted......... :shock:
 
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Sorry Ron I can't help myself. You charge 60 cents a foot. Great.

So you are saying you wouldn't do three rooms and a hallway open areas only for 140-150? I would. You can't make money at 80 bucks, but you can at 150 if the job doesn't take more than an hour. But you may be right as well. You have to stick to your price if you believe it is the best thing for your business. If it is not working, a change may be in order.

Oh shit another price debate.
 

joe harper

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There is ...ONLY...a High end market...&...a LOW end market in this ECONOMY... :!:


The MIDDLE CLASS market is GONE by the way-side.... :(


There is PLENTY of money sitting on the FENCE... :wink:


Thank you ObamA.... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Ps WE RAISED our PRICES..... :shock:
 

joe harper

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My ..NAME..is on our Trucks... :!: :!: :!:

The DAY we perform a SUB-STANDARD...job to fit someone's BUDJET..... :twisted:

Is the DAY..."I"..close the doors.... :!:

Not everyone can AFFORD our services...That's O.K....I can understand that..!
But there is NO WAY IN HELL...we can "AFFORD"...to HALF-ASS a job...leaving our
REPUTATION...un-protected... :wink:

I ASSURE you if our clients didn't see the VALUE in our SERVICE.... :idea:
"They wouldn't pay our PRICE..."


PS Ron...hold the LINE...Your clients will CONTINUE to pay your price.... 8)


And for you low-ballers..."DON'T show up for a "Black-Tie" event.....IN CUT-OFF jeans.. :oops:
 

Brian R

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I've always thought that Ron has had the best attitude when it comes to this kind of thing.
Good job Ron.
 

TimP

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As far as pricing goes. I don't have the luxury of having a large population base to only go for high end customers. So I do both types of mid to low end clients.

So what I do is have a regular price which is priced by the foot, empty rooms qualify for a discount also. Then offer a traffic lane special for those on a budget.

Regular price includes moving furniture in the living room, very little furniture in bedrooms, minimal spot cleaning, and vacuuming. If something special is requested by the customer then I charge extra for what they want done.

Traffic lane special consists of 3 rooms and a hall, rooms no larger than 200-300 ft, as long as I can see the job being done in 1-1.5 hours in other words. No vacuuming, or furniture moved at all. Priced $99.00, extra bed rooms are priced $20-30 depending on size. The main purpose for the traffic lane special is to get the price shoppers who want more than 1 room done. My minimum is less than $99.00 so my 1 room price is competitive. It seems to do well since Stanley Steamer has a $150.00 minimum charge for my area. I think Rex still has a lower minimum for my area but it doesn't seem to matter as I can get to people quicker for the most part and the average small ticket is the minimum or higher anyway.
 

dday

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If deflation continues to take hold, as it appears to be doing, then prices will come down. This will, as Larry pointed out, be a function of the market. The upshot is that during deflation, prices can be lowered while not adversely affecting one's standard of living or profitability, because 1) one's own expenses will also start to decline as vendors also find themselves needing to lower price to remain competitive, and 2) dollars are worth more during deflation than they were during the preceding inflation. This doesn't mean that those who stick to the bulletin board mantra of "you must gross $100-$150/hour "At The Wand" will see revenues decline as other cleaners offer same quality work for less, but it certainly increases their risk of doing so.

Debt-free Lone Wolf owner-ops can gross $50-$75/hour ATW and make book, all the while not giving up on quality by skipping steps. Under the old rules, I was priced to gross right around $100/hour while manning the wand. I now find I often need to work fours hours in the customers home to make what I used to make in three (i.e. my formerly $400 job is now often a $300-$330 job), I'm fine. I'm grateful for the $300, and it sure beats sitting at home making $0 all because I stuck to my guns holding out for 35 pennies/square when the customers new sweet spot is 25-30 pennies.

Would I do three rooms and a hall for $140-$150? Sure. And I see no reason why it matters whether I finish in 1-1.5 hours or if it takes me 2-2.5 hours. My last job today was a Great Room, Dining Room, Breakfast Nook, and Hall. My price was $178 and it took me 2.5 hours pre-vac to final groom - a measly $71.20/hour. Try as I might, I cannot see how I lost out by taking 150 minutes to finish rather than the 106.8 minutes which would have allowed me to claim the magical $100/hour for that job. My bank took the check without even asking me how long it took me to earn it. And I am grateful to have had the opportunity to earn it.

There was a time when I would almost agonize abut the $100/hour - to the point where I would feel that I had been "had" when the time I was spending on a particular job caused my rate to drop below that magic number of the bulletin board gods (and goddesses). As a result, as the economy slowed, I let my business get far slower than I needed to as I "stuck to my guns." Not anymore. I now run my life according to actual reality, rather than internet bulletin boards versions of "reality."

My worst enemy? For a long time it was stubbornly insisting that the reality I learned from the message boards accurately reflected reality in my marketplace, even as the economy weakened. I have slain that enemy, finally. My new worst enemy is clowns. Definitely clowns. And donuts. Clowns and donuts.
 
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In my area stanley steamer has a horrable rep.... If they are at 150 and people hate them what the hell are we doing at 99 for crying out loud :evil:
 

dealtimeman

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Good point Ron, here we have a local company that everyone either hates or loves. If they charge thirty cents for commercial, I charge thirty five. It has seemed to work well for me.

I too, would not do any job that was under the famous "100 an hour. But know I just price per area and it takes as long as it takes to do the job well and build our reputation and client base.
 

TimP

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Ron Lippold said:
In my area stanley steamer has a horrable rep.... If they are at 150 and people hate them what the hell are we doing at 99 for crying out loud :evil:


I'd go up on my minimum but SS has priced themselves out of my market. My concern is Rex and he's keeping me from going higher. Plus I can make good money and add more customers by being competitive.

Anyways simple economics dictate price. Supply and demand. In my market there isn't much demand so supply is high meaning I don't stay going full time year round. Which dictates that price must go down so that demand will go up. Everyone's market is different. I haven't discounted my regular price and I'm pursing value minded customers as long as I can still make good money. Ignoring the shoppers is fine if you have more work than you can handle but if you don't, you need to find ways to make money by servicing those customers. I would be an idiot to ignore them and stay home because I'm above working for less than $100 an hour.
 

Wayne Miller

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What if car manufacturers had BBS's.

Would they talk about pricing?

Would Kia really ask BMW,

"Why would someone buy one of yours when one of ours will do as good a job or close to the same job at one-tenth the price?"








Would BMW really have to explain why?
 

Dolly Llama

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Wayne Miller said:
What if car manufacturers had BBS's.

Would they talk about pricing?

Would Kia really ask BMW,

"Why would someone buy one of yours when one of ours will do as good a job or close to the same job at one-tenth the price?"

I don't "think" this debate is about hi or low end services/products , Wayniac

It's about market "realities"

i bet you could walk into any dealer show room right now and get a better deal on any ride, (hi or low end) , than you could 5 years ago

That's "market reality"
as long as there is market competition, there will always be a price "ceiling" regardless of the target market a biz chooses


..L.T.A.
 

Jay D

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Clowns and DOUGHNUTS...... Good to see you D-Day and I have to agree on the realities of any particular market. Price it at what you want to make on any particular day or sit at home and eat doughnuts. :roll:
 

Wayne Miller

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"So we know we cant be the everything to everyone. who do you pick to work for?"

"Who dictates what you charge????? you or the customer..........."

It's about both, ain't it?

When times are tough and we can't be all things to all people, if we could, wouldn't we work for people who don't dictate price to the ridiculous? Don't we all like to hear, "Oh, that's fine." instead of, "Oh my, that much?"

I bet if we talk to BMW owners about their choice of ride for many it's about what makes them feel good. Not everyone can afford to endulge themselves but, apprarently, enough can.

Is carpet cleaning any different?

Good market or bad, someone sets our price ceiling based largely on who we choose to work for and who dictates what we charge. There are BMW dealers in every state, five more in Ohio than in Maryland.
 

Brian R

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Apples and Oranges

You can't compare services to products.

If not only for the emotions involved.
 

Ken Snow

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The big diff between a retail product & services is the intangible aspect of services. That is overcome to whatever degree it is by "higher priced" cleaners by doing more steps, spending more time shmoozing etc, where "lower priced" cleaners may not do all the same things or spend as long.

Generally, with an expensive retail product there are serious differences in quality of materials used as well as a Prestige factor that can raise the price. I don't find that to be so true in service (any service industry)~ there are bad and good at the lower & higher end of the price scale and a moderately priced company can certainly perform an excellent service and grow to as large as their dream is.

A "high priced" cleaner will have a difficult time growing off the truck (can be done, look at HP) so diversify and invest for your retirement (non OO's too for that matter).
 

Brian R

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I've paid $45.00 for massages and $120.00 for massages (same time frame)
Aside from the fufu stuff there wasn't much difference and I felt the same either way.

The best massage I've ever had...and I had it on a regular basis was a girl in my Letip group in that charges $65.00.
Not sure what this has to do with the thread....I'm just saying the end result of anything often doesn't dictate the price.
 

Brian R

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Nahh, I don't want her yanky my wanky.

The $120.00 deal was all smoke a mirrors...fu fu music and maybe a bottled water instead of out of the water cooler.

I would much rather her rank on me with construction going on in the background and work out the knots instead of a gentle rub in a room that feels like we are on some serenity journey. :roll:

Just beat the hell out of me and I'll pay good money. :lol:

I feel the same with Carpet Cleaning...crank it out and leave...I don't want some guy vacuuming my home for half the day (no offense Ron) and then raking my carpet for no other reason than aesthetics and to be able to charge more.

Uh oh...it's going to turn into a "hackattack" thread. Duck!
 

Wayne Miller

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Okay, Brian, you're in the massage business now. You charge $45 and drive that spiffy little Kia out at the curb. Mikey up the block charges $120 and parks his BMW in a custom garage in the back of his shop.

Why do 2.7 massages for every one of his? Is it because you don't understand or aren't comfortable with $120 customers?

Now, you're a car salesman. You sell Kia's, average sale, tax,tags and title, $17.5K. Mr. Lippold sells BMW's across town and his average ticket is $43.9K, or 2.5:1. His commisions are better, financing buyers is easier, the coffee is better and he's moving inventory.

BMW is hiring. You gonna pull the trigger and make the move or stay where you, perhaps, feel safe?

Apples and oranges? The mechanics of the buying decsion are the same. People want what makes them feel good the most, according to their means.

Just MHO based on my own experience figuring out what to charge, the hard part is keeping your own belief system from interfering with how other people go about spending their money.
 

Brian R

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He needs to charge more to pay for the BMW (v) and the high rent building and high end decor.

Overhead will dictate who makes more all else being equal like qauntity of customers.

I would bet the take home is the same or close given your example, Wayne.
 

Brian R

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Wayne Wrote
Apples and oranges? The mechanics of the buying decision are the same. People want what makes them feel good the most, according to their means

I don't agree with that at all.
Cleaning is a necessary inconvenience...buying a BMW is taking what might be a necessary inconvenience and turning it into a luxury.

You may be able to turn a cleaning into that...but most people don't see the value in that luxury when the end result is the same.

A BMW's end result is the ultimate driving machine...and carpet cleaning's end result should be clean.

A KIA is not the ultimate driving machine....and you know it as soon as you drive it off the lot.
 

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