Egads that's a whopper!

[SamIam]

So me and my helpers Phil and Jeremy met up on a job carpets and upholstery yesterday.

Next door my competitor Anthony's Carpet Care was Cleaning, I saw him the day before and noticed a Judson in his Ford.

So I walked over and said hello, he was really happy with his TNT and liked it more then his steamway.

I thought it was the monster with a 4.8 blower, but that would be a C4.

This thing took up the hole side door it's a whopper.

Does Les use the same frame for both machines and just use different components?

He had a Mytee tool he wanted me to try because I was doing upholstery, but I declined and used my sapphire.

He had a 4.5 blower said it had great heat and suction.

Just seamed like a huge machine.

The machine sits on the waste tank?

 

[SamIam]

TNT

C4

 

[BIG WOOD]

I'd love to see s 3cylinder liquid cooled engine on those frames

 

[Mike Pailliotet]

Yes, both the TNT and the C4 sit on their waste tanks.

You've been looking at Sapphires for too long, Judson's are w i d e.

 

[Mike Pailliotet]

So are Cobb's.

I probably would have got one if not for those Texan birthing hips.

 

[Cleanworks]

Those Judson's are powerful, reliable machines but they depend on propane for their heat. With the 4ht heater, they are monsters. I don't know how available propane is in the US but here it is becoming a declining market. I can get my propane bottles filled easy but if you have a belly tank that needs to be filled from the car/truck hose, those stations are disappearing. My station down the street no longer fills cars/trucks/rv and has the bottle swap system. I'd love to see a Judson HX unit one day.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Heat Exchangers rule !

Ours deliver more heat than the #3 Little Giant propane heaters we used to utilize.

Insurance is still a problem for propane tank vans.

Our machines combine the 35" wide Recovery tank & fresh water tank and machine,

across the van from the side doors to the van wall.

 

[Cleanworks]

I have just purchased my first HX unit this past year. Just an older private labeled prochem Blazer xl. Just had the little 18hp Vanguard engine pulled and overhauled, had to replace the front oil seal, tune it up, weld the exhaust pipe etc. It's not the biggest or the hottest unit out there but I am impressed with it's performance for what it is. At 150 ft. It has more than adequate vacuum performance, relief valve pops off at 14.5 inches hg and the engine doesn't bog at all. Has the cat 3cp pump and puts out lots of flow. Using a 6 flow wand, the HX keeps up and actually gets hotter, the longer you use it. It is very easy to use, wouldn't be hard to train staff how to operate it. As I am usually operating out of used vans, my next unit will probably be a slightly larger version of this.

 

[hogjowl]

Ran TCS propane units for years. I'm in a Cleanco now because of propane. I hate propane.

 

[SamIam]

Les would say your throwing money away

 

[Mike Pailliotet]

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

No heat exchanges for Les he built a great unit with a heat exchange and water cooled engine. but stopped at just a few units. Great unit all stainless and top of the line items I wanted one but the price was a little high but a great value for it. I still owned my Hydramaster 470 D so the timing was bad. jz.

 

[SamIam]

 

[hogjowl]

I'm no longer cleaning engine exhaust and propane fumes off my dash and glass.

 

[Cleanworks]

I have seen that before, he makes a convincing argument. Any rebuttals?

 

[hogjowl]

I also can keep my equipment locked up.

 

[Bob Pruitt]

I have seen that before, he makes a convincing argument. Any rebuttals?

edit- The high heat Butler has 2 heat exchangers...one for the engine and another for the blower? I think it works like that. Not sure the video mentioned heat being captured in other places beyond the engine.

I also liked my propane heaters and they did provide great heat...except the cores can/will over heat and vaporize causing a rapid expansion inside the water coil...boom.
Joey Harper had Les re-engineer a cleaning unit that is in a trailer with 2 of the biggest heaters #4, and that is an impressive set up!

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Butler hx is engine coolant and blower exhaust only. No engine exhaust.

 

[Bob Pruitt]

Butler hx is engine coolant and blower exhaust only. No engine exhaust.

OK but the video doesn't mention the blower as a heat source...or did I miss that?
2 heat exchangers are also not mentioned... so that was my rebuttal to the Les argument...which seems to be engine captured heat vs propane heat...leaving out the blower and any other ways heat exchangers capture heat.

 

[BIG WOOD]

$45,000 is a big number to compare it to. In the myth buster's vid, he never mentioned the cost of propane in the same amount of hours. How much does propane cost per hour on a 2cylinder 30hp truck mount?

 

[Cleanworks]

on a 3 ht heater, I usually get about 8 hours out of a 20lb bottle. Cost is aprox $30. With a belly tank, it would be about $15. The 4ht be a little more expensive.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

BS BS BS!!
Just wrong Les.

 

[BIG WOOD]

on a 3 ht heater, I usually get about 8 hours out of a 20lb bottle. Cost is aprox $30. With a belly tank, it would be about $15. The 4ht be a little more expensive.

If your numbers are correct, then that's about $3.75/hr on top of the unleaded gas cost. That's $37,500 at 10,000hrs. It seems to me that you're paying double the fuel if you're using a propane vs. heat exchanger

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I don't want to hear a lawnmower engine start, or try to, that many times.

 

[Cleanworks]

When you look at today's slide in HX tm's, they have gotten pretty creative obtaining heat from both the engine exhaust and blower exhaust. The small ones cannot compete with a #4 propane heater going wide open on large commercial areas with large flow tools but they do a nice job on residential and light commercial, where you have to pause to dry vac, move furniture, etc. The larger machines with the water cooled engines such as the Everest or SS 870 or even the Apex are pretty close. The Pto systems with the extra heat packages also do pretty well. There is not as much of a fuel consumption difference as you would think with the larger water cooled engines. The newer ones are efi and the Everest has their e idle to save money. Only one fuel to buy, never have to worry about running out of propane. There is a lot to be said for HX units.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Fewer TM fires.

 

[SamIam]

I think Les was including the cost of a mount in the comparison.

570 to a C4 is about 6k that buys a lot of fuel.

Still with employees do you want them messing with propane, and having the pilot go out and no hot water?

 

[SamIam]

You could almost but 3 c4 and 3 good used vans for a price of a Aerotech.

Aerotech is about the only hx machine that beats the C4 heat

 

[SamIam]

The El diablo would be as hot as any fuel fired machine.

 

[Cleanworks]

I don't those figures for the cleanco, butler and hydramaster include the extra heat packages available with each machine.