Wonder if today will be my day....

ronbeatty · Feb 1, 2018

With all the promotion Mark has done for Butler for free, I would expect them to be on top of this and get Mark making money.

bob vawter · Feb 2, 2018

They should give him a gold leaf covered Butler

Desk Jockey · Feb 2, 2018

I'd have cut my losses and swapped him a new one. Sold Christine as a demo once fixed. All this dragged out in the public eye for the last several months is bad PR.

hogjowl · Feb 2, 2018

The image is not a good one, for sure.
But it’s GMs problem
Not Butlers

Dolly Llama · Feb 2, 2018

True
But unless Mark bought the van elsewhere and shipped to Butler,
Butler ultimately holds the bag on this one

LTA

BIG WOOD · Feb 2, 2018

sOOper hero said:
True
But unless Mark bought the van elsewhere and shipped to Butler,
Butler ultimately holds the bag on this one

LTA

That's what I've been thinking the whole time. If mark paid the big price of the van/truckmount combo TO Butler, then Butler needs to stand up to the plate and go to bat for Mark. Because from our eyes, they bought the van from GM.

@Mark Saiger , why do you feel that Butler doesn't need to do anything?

D Luke · Feb 2, 2018

Only GM dealers (which Butler is not) can sell GM products. Yeah you can get the package from Butler, but technically the van is coming from a dealer one way or the other, not Butler.

D Luke · Feb 2, 2018

Straight from Butler's website:

Note: The Butler Corporation has been granted by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts a Class I Motor Vehicle and Seller's License that permits us to purchase and sell new and pre-owned vehicles. The Butler Corporation is not a dealership. We are able to stock and offer for sale an extensive inventory of new vehicles through General Motors and Ford Motor Company local dealerships. New vehicles are ordered, received, inspected and prepared for delivery by the manufacturers' dealers. Whether you arrange for a new vehicle through The Butler Corporation and our local dealers or supply your own vehicle, the vehicle warranty fulfillment is the responsibility, solely, of the vehicle manufacturer and is provided through their dealer network

D Luke · Feb 2, 2018

Which brings up another point:

Yes, your local GM dealers should step up regardless, but a lot of them are not thrilled when you bring in a vehicle that has issues that you didn't buy from them. Not saying it's right, just saying it's true.

BIG WOOD · Feb 2, 2018

D Luke said:
Straight from Butler's website:

Note: The Butler Corporation has been granted by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts a Class I Motor Vehicle and Seller's License that permits us to purchase and sell new and pre-owned vehicles. The Butler Corporation is not a dealership. We are able to stock and offer for sale an extensive inventory of new vehicles through General Motors and Ford Motor Company local dealerships. New vehicles are ordered, received, inspected and prepared for delivery by the manufacturers' dealers. Whether you arrange for a new vehicle through The Butler Corporation and our local dealers or supply your own vehicle, the vehicle warranty fulfillment is the responsibility, solely, of the vehicle manufacturer and is provided through their dealer network

Legally, they don’t have to. But ethically...the CEO of butler should stand up and handle this matter for all that Mark has done for them.

Desk Jockey · Feb 2, 2018

hogjowl said:
The image is not a good one, for sure.
But it’s GMs problem
Not Butlers

You are correct but do you think GM cares that their image is getting tarnished? Do you Butler does? GM is hanging Butler out to dry. It isn't Butlers fault but who is really getting hurt by this besides Mark? Butler.

Again I would have handled it differently.

steve_64 · Feb 2, 2018

I've been following this but still trying to get a butler.

Sounds like a rare issue and when you buy from a private party buyer beware.

I'd be shopping for a new mechanic.

Papa John · Feb 2, 2018

I know that all this BS has caused me to delay buying a GM, weather it has a Butler or Not.

I'm not happy with Merecedes Benz but I don't want to trade one headache for another.

I holding out for a smaller City version of the AT. By that I mean I'll give up storage space for a shorter, lower height box.

I dream of an AT with overall length of 19ft and height and width of 7'-10".

Mark Saiger · Feb 2, 2018

Butler has made some calls...

Some big wig GM types were to hold a meeting yesterday or today and my situation was to be a major topic of discussion.

Had the son in law winterize and return the van and Butler to the dealership again (took it back for a couple hours) thing rattled like an old tin can and yet my dealership just can't (not sure how enthusiastic) find the rattle.

I am calling again Monday.

Thinking I will suggest they pull the oil pan of the motor next to look.

They told me the region rep would be back again on Feb 22nd.... :dejection:

good grief...

Just need permission to take it to a non GM mechanic such as my brother in laws shop so we can find it.

Also called a body shop friend of mine to put it on the frame rack and test it for out of square problems or cracks.

Right now just no one wants to find the problem.

Lyman · Feb 3, 2018

Mark, you don't need permission to put it on a lift and look at it. It is time to stop being nice and get your attorney involved. You are getting the run around big time. For one, your dealer really doesn't care about it because you didn't buy it there. A frame machine at a body shop is only to lock down a frame on a vehicle and pull or push a frame straight.

Steve Lawrence · Feb 3, 2018

D Luke said:
Only GM dealers (which Butler is not) can sell GM products. Yeah you can get the package from Butler, but technically the van is coming from a dealer one way or the other, not Butler.

Butler IS a GM dealer!

BIG WOOD · Feb 3, 2018

Steve Lawrence said:
Butler IS a GM dealer!

This is on the Butler website:

Note: The Butler Corporation has been granted by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts a Class I Motor Vehicle and Seller's License that permits us to purchase and sell new and pre-owned vehicles. The Butler Corporation is not a dealership. We are able to stock and offer for sale an extensive inventory of new vehicles through General Motors and Ford Motor Company local dealerships. New vehicles are ordered, received, inspected and prepared for delivery by the manufacturers' dealers. Whether you arrange for a new vehicle through The Butler Corporation and our local dealers or supply your own vehicle, the vehicle warranty fulfillment is the responsibility, solely, of the vehicle manufacturer and is provided through their dealer network.

BIG WOOD · Feb 3, 2018

That's the one thing about direct drives that bothers me. Once the truckmount is installed, it now becomes part of the vehicle. When a major flaw breaks down, there can be several gray areas as to what caused the defect. I think that GM is taking responsibility of Mark's problem, which is good, but I've read in the past that both parties (the tm dealer, and the van's dealer) have just pointed fingers at the other party, saying it's not their fault, which puts a burden on the customer.

That's why Butler needs to be a direct GM/Isuzu dealer. So they can have more of a push on the matter, and get the problem solved allot sooner.

@Mark Saiger , do you know if they were ever a GM dealer in the past years, and if so, why did they drop it?

Mark Saiger · Feb 3, 2018

I'm going to become the most awesome OP and Encap cleaner you've ever seen..... :rockon:

D Luke · Feb 3, 2018

Steve Lawrence said:
Butler IS a GM dealer!

I can see why it can seem that way, though, since you can call them up and get a new van/machine package. It still always technically comes from a specific GM dealer, and it's not like GM is going to let someone run a dealership out of their truckmount shop. You need the million dollar building, approved million dollar service department, million dollar parts department, etc.

Desk Jockey · Feb 3, 2018

My lease agent is a dealer too. He orders the vehicle and gets me great prices but when there is a vehicle issue it goes to the local GM dealership.

Lee Stockwell · Feb 3, 2018

Million dollar everything...but 50 cent service.

D Luke · Feb 3, 2018

Yeah I'm not trying to stick up for GM at all, just trying to point out that it is 100% their failure and problem, not Butler's.

That being said, Butler should still do everything they can to help, which it sounds like they hopefully are.

Mark Saiger · Feb 3, 2018

I knew the day my GMC dealership was sold and GM moved the GMC part across town to the GM dealer (they whined until they got it) that my life could suck.....

And my brother in law who was the lead shop mechanic at Ford left and opened his own private shop....

Well....I have no good service anymore...and my Dodge dealership which had GMC is now struggling as well for repair.

All the shops became union and no one claims any job is theirs to fix something except a few of the older guys who take pride in doing work....

Desk Jockey · Feb 3, 2018

We are fortunate to have a large Chevy dealership here that doesn't seem to care that are vehicles are not purchased through them. They just appreciate the repair and service work. I think they are so large they don't know or just don't care where it came from.

Mark Saiger · Feb 3, 2018

If my GM dealership would have been a bit better about this, we might have purchased another vehicle last week from them...but we decided to get the Dodge Durango....and also a new Dodge Ram 4 x 4....

My wife mentioned maybe purchasing from them...I pretty much was....they haven't earned my business!