03 jets on a resturant are the bomb!

[Bob Foster]

If anyone thinks that there isn't much difference between 02 jets and 03 jets for flushing, especially on a resturant, their wrong.

Wow - what a difference. Today Ron Werner and I did an experiment comparing my Greenhorn with 02's and Ron's Greenhorn with 03's. There was a big visual difference in a stroke for stroke comparison.

The only thing I might caution people on is you have to have the heat capacity to deal with the higher flow. Ron's Judson is equipped with a Little Giant #4 and we had it pinned and it did maintain the heat.

 

[Steve in Omaha]

what % more water did you go through, vs just using 2's? Assuming this was not the first time on this job.

 

[tmdry]

I wish the last restaurants I did looked clean like that!

The carpets were beyond black, gunk.

Have you followed up the following day or 2 to see if there was any wicking? I'm always a bit worried about that part.

 

[Bob Foster]

We were going through about 45- 50 gallons an hour on about 1500 square feet.

 

[GeneMiller]

how many jets on the greenhorn

gene

 

[hogjowl]

How long did it take you to get to the point that you wanted to rip that vacuum cleaner out of Ron's hands and cram it up his butt?

 

[Bob Foster]

No vacuum cleaners were abused during the making of this thread. In fact it wasn't even vacuumed or pre-scrubbed.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Bob what glide are you running?

 

[Bob Foster]

We were using GreenGlide hybrids. Ron will actually changes out his hybrid to a holed one when he does residential.

I use a hybrid most of the time. I will be experimenting with my new Bentley that has their version of a hybrid too.

 

[hogjowl]

Ron should be ashamed!

 

[Johnny]

how many jets on the greenhorn

gene

Five jets on the 14" GH.

I replaced the 02s with 03s on my GH a few months ago to reduce streaking. Another benefit of the 03s is faster rinsing.

I'm stickin wit the 03s.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

I had a restaurant today. I cleaned with one solution line while my helper pre-sprayed with another. The temp never dropped below 230 atm. Before I cleaned my hxers out the temp would drop when the other line was pre-spraying. I think I am going to go up to a higher flow. Twelve flow may be a bit too much. I asked about your glide because I just got my new slot glide. I am very happy with it, but it is almost as hard to push as an un-glided wand. I may order a hybrid glide for my other 4 jet wand that way I will have a slot, hybrid, and un-glided. I really can't tell a difference between the slot glide and un-glided wand. The holed glide was silky smooth but it wouldn't pick up even the smallest piece of lint but it was great for cleaning rugs on location. I was cleaning 200 ft from the truck and the wand was locking down pretty hard even with the slot glide. I did notice that after I cleaned about 1k sq ft the wand started pushing a lot easier. I guess I needed to break it in. With that said I can clean all day with an unglided wand. My helper ran the wand for a bit and he said it pushed easier.


0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gv3dzhaxcM0]

 

[Ron Werner]

gees, ran out of video just by walking to the work area!

I've been finding I like the 15 flow over the 10 flow, getting more heat to the carpet and better flushing.

In a year and half this is the best heat I've gotten. I should have cleaned the jets in the LG a lot sooner. It cleaned great before which proved that I don't really need super heat to clean, the heat does help but I'll probably only need 200ATM.

Oh, I don't vacuum restaurants, not usually anyway.
I'll take some vid of one of my regular restys this week.

 

[Curtis Pennington]

Waste of water...other factors are more beneficial.

 

[sweendogg]

You see a waste of water because you would continue to clean the same way. While the rest with hi flow understand the saving of water because now they can make a single rinse pass that pushes the same amount of water as a double pass with standard flow or even less water than a double pass with a 08 or 10 flow wand. Still getting more heat to the carpet fiber in a single pass and making better use of their time.

 

[Bob Foster]

I disagree that its a waste of water and the results prove it. I designed Ron's truck to hold over 200 gallons of fresh water and 200 gallons of waste capacity. That's what the high capacity of water is there for, to use for flushing the fibers clean.

Without using air movers or the building fans the carpet was pretty well dry to the touch when we left .

 

[Fred Homan]

What other numbers go with the 02 & 03 jets for the Greenhorn? Which one is best for more flow? To prevent streaking....

 

[Ron Werner]

I also disagree that its a waste of water. I've been going back and forth from the 02's to the 03's and I've been getting better performance with the 03's. I use maybe 25% more water than with the 02's, so for you laddies with 100gal tanks, you'll need a refill on larger jobs, but its well used water giving a better flush. Going to 04's may be a waste, or it might allow for faster cleaning. Haven't tried yet as I'm quite satisfied with the results with 03's. I know someone uses 24 flow and swears by it, he has a V or AT with 200-300gal FW.

 

[floorguy]

What other numbers go with the 02 & 03 jets for the Greenhorn? Which one is best for more flow? To prevent streaking....

other numbers??

like spray pattern or jetting size??

pattern i believe is 110 on all 5.

jetting, you could do a 015 or a 025...etc ask greenie, or look locally, besure to ask for 1/8 threading instead of 1/4

 

[Dolly Llama]

Still getting more heat to the carpet fiber in a single pass and making better use of their time.

have you measured the temp ATF, Sween?

the only identical wands (with exception of jetting) I measured ATF were a couple of cheap AW29 wands
on a winter day years ago..."pre" fire hose flow trend days.

thermometer used was digital meat thermometer with prob on the carpet under the spray

with machine temp pegged at 280 there was a difference of 25 degrees more heat ATF going from 04 jetting to 06
PSI was in the 350 range

The first summer we had the Ti, I did some temp readings with stock jetting (06)
Continuous heat sustained @ 450psi was 272 ATM
Spray measured ATF was 180

I haven't measured any temps ATF since I pimped the Ti with GreenDawg extenders and 2 GPM flow.
I was going to about a year ago, but the digi thermometer in the van had a dead batt'ry

It would be interesting to see some real temp numbers ATF with same wand, same machine, same ambient temp, same amount of solution line etc and how it relates to flow rates ..
There must be a point where the curve flattens and levels off then declines as heat system is out run.

you're a rocket surgery kind of guy.
You'd be an excellent candidate to do the measurements....

..L.T.A.

 

[Bob Foster]

All I can say is that I really needed my gloves for that job because my hands were very uncomfortable from the heat coming off that wand.

 

[sweendogg]

And seeing as I'm about to go up to 03's on my greenhorn, sounds like a great time to do such a test. I know there was a significant increase in temp at the floor on my prochem quad jet when I went from standard 06 flow up to 12 flow. But it was kinda of relative. the wand was getting alot hotter as Bob Foster aluded to. I'll see if I can pull off a few measurements. But I should point out, I'm running a 4.8 cds non salsa so the most temp I get is going to be in the 220 at the mount on a really hot day. It maintains about 205 at the truck when working consistantly most days.. even frigid days. So even a 20 degree bump on my end is going to be significant from maybe 160 ATF to 180 ATF.

 

[Dolly Llama]

And seeing as I'm about to go up to 03's on my greenhorn, sounds like a great time to do such a test.

perfect, Sween!

Don't use the infrared point and shoot thermometers ..they're not reliable for accurate measurements of spray ATF
go to Harbor Freight and pick up a digi meat thermometer.
they're $5 - 6 bukz I think

the temps your TM makes will be fine.
cause it's all relative

I'll be curious to see what the actual gain ATF is, going from 10 to 15 flow.
The "hot wand" isn't a good indicator imHo.
cause it stands to reason, more water going up the wand would cause it to get hotter .
example...if CFM stays the same, 2 gpm of 150 degree water will make a steel tube hotter than 1 gpm of the same 150 degree water thru the tube

naw' mean?
(that's western Pa mountain man tawk for "know what I mean"..while he has a big wad of chewing tobacco in his mouth)


..L.T.A.

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

Iv,e tried many combos from time to time, now using 2-110-05 works great the difference shows on dirty white carpet. I cleaned a vacant today loaded with something? lots of foam and more foam. The larger jets cleaned easier and the carpet looked great and was dry to touch. the carpet was over 15 years so who knows what was done prior to that? This works on residential but on glue downs the pressure it turned down. jz.

 

[sweendogg]

Of course the thing you have to remember that even if you only gain a few degrees but gain a lot more volume, its not simply the actual temperature but the amount of thermal energy transferred that can may be the actual beneficial part. For example, if I have a 280 degree ATF reading but only running an 03 flow, I may only raise the surface temperature of the carpet by say 10 degrees. (theoretical example mind you.) But if I run a machine at 200 degrees with 15 flow, the surface temperature may raise 50 degrees. In this example, more thermal energey is transferred and the higher flow though not as hot, actually did more work. But I agree with you that there has to be a point of diminishing return when the amount of flow compared to heat given becomes non beneficial.

Unfortunatly that point is probably different from machine to machine based on a number of factors.

 

[hogjowl]

I'll go to 03 flow jets when Jim Martin says he has, and when Shawn Forsythe says it's scientifically proven to be beneficial.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I carry jets to go up or down a few sizes in the top of the toolbox. For me the "sweet spot" is a 9 flow (3jet wand), but the boys do more commercial and flow 12 because they are flying. Probably close to the same water used psf.

If you carry extra jets (they are cheap) you can experiment on the job quite easily to find the sweet spot for your machine and work style.

 

[Ron Lippold]

wow you guys must be crazy !gotcha!

 

[Jim Martin]

I'll go to 03 flow jets when Jim Martin says he has, and when Shawn Forsythe says it's scientifically proven to be beneficial.

Don't hold your breath waiting on me...I found my sweet spot with my jets already.......and I am in no hurry to change them....

 

[Dolly Llama]

Of course the thing you have to remember that even if you only gain a few degrees but gain a lot more volume, its not simply the actual temperature but the amount of thermal energy transferred that can may be the actual beneficial part. For example, if I have a 280 degree ATF reading but only running an 03 flow, I may only raise the surface temperature of the carpet by say 10 degrees. (theoretical example mind you.) But if I run a machine at 200 degrees with 15 flow, the surface temperature may raise 50 degrees. In this example, more thermal energey is transferred and the higher flow though not as hot, actually did more work. But I agree with you that there has to be a point of diminishing return when the amount of flow compared to heat given becomes non beneficial.

Unfortunatly that point is probably different from machine to machine based on a number of factors.

oh, for crying out loud, Sweendoggie
just measure the difference in temps

you can do "theoretical" analysis and thermal energy physics equations after you tell us what, if any difference the solution temp ATF is.... :roll:


..L.T.A.