Steve Lawrence
Member
Sounds like it might be a good idea to find any openings and seal with silicone.
10" CRB Sale
- Thread starter encapman
- Start date
I appreciate all your wonderful thoughts and toweling off your equipment might not be a bad idea. If your CRB cleaning system is taking on the formula then maybe you need to contact your equipment manufacture and tell them to build a better unit, one that will stand the test of time or just maybe better quality. Facts Procyon has sodium salts plus other components that make up our products rich and powerful cleaning formulas with a wide range of pH. Each product in its own unique detergent free/soap free blend can and will out perform any, "like me" or "me too" cleaning products. Yes this product can damage some components no different than Calcium. Calcium is a soft gray group alkaline earth metal, fifth-most-abundant element by mass in your water and you drink it, "Take a good look at your HOT water tank you will see the buildup" and you drink it! - I drink Procyon and have for 34 years ,you know that and I am still here and pushing 60 this year. So lets get down to what works and has credentials to support everything that they say. Corrosion has been in this industry for ever, it is a given and it is not going away.
Please try and match all your testing certifications with the testing and certifications that Procyon offers you.
you can purchase a cheep CRB system use it everyday day like our school systems have in the past and then ask your self why they are sitting in their closets with broken plastic gears and have been rendered useless? It's not from PROCYON. They had never heard of PROCYON products or our heavy duty steel built RBS cleaning system until we arrive to work on their issues. People make cheep CRB systems as cheep as they can and the gears are just as cheep. When your systems are broken and to expensive to re build costing money for freight back and forth materials and labor! You should think twice about what you purchase. Please remember you get what you pay for. I have been in this industry for over 34 years and a professional cleaner for over 10 years. I have seen a lot of cheep equipment dressed up and looking good. Plus I see a lot of dressed up bottles filled with poison cleaning chemicals. If you want to use cheep equipment then do it. If you want to use poison and clean with that kind of product then please do so and do not let me stop you. Go and poison your self and your customers homes and family's! Knock your self out! Go for it!
As far as my grandson teething on my bottle he did not want to play with any of his toys he was cutting his teeth. The bottle has never had one ounce of any product in it, we were doing a production of photo shoots for our new market. Reality is the disclaimer on the label. The visual is HOW SAFE ARE YOUR CLEANING PRODUCTS. I know Procyon is safe and I know that we are not out there in this industry poisoning you or your families. Shame on you if you are. I am OK if the photo upsets you because I am delivering a strong message. Some people get it and some people just don't care.
Please try and match all your testing certifications with the testing and certifications that Procyon offers you.
you can purchase a cheep CRB system use it everyday day like our school systems have in the past and then ask your self why they are sitting in their closets with broken plastic gears and have been rendered useless? It's not from PROCYON. They had never heard of PROCYON products or our heavy duty steel built RBS cleaning system until we arrive to work on their issues. People make cheep CRB systems as cheep as they can and the gears are just as cheep. When your systems are broken and to expensive to re build costing money for freight back and forth materials and labor! You should think twice about what you purchase. Please remember you get what you pay for. I have been in this industry for over 34 years and a professional cleaner for over 10 years. I have seen a lot of cheep equipment dressed up and looking good. Plus I see a lot of dressed up bottles filled with poison cleaning chemicals. If you want to use cheep equipment then do it. If you want to use poison and clean with that kind of product then please do so and do not let me stop you. Go and poison your self and your customers homes and family's! Knock your self out! Go for it!
As far as my grandson teething on my bottle he did not want to play with any of his toys he was cutting his teeth. The bottle has never had one ounce of any product in it, we were doing a production of photo shoots for our new market. Reality is the disclaimer on the label. The visual is HOW SAFE ARE YOUR CLEANING PRODUCTS. I know Procyon is safe and I know that we are not out there in this industry poisoning you or your families. Shame on you if you are. I am OK if the photo upsets you because I am delivering a strong message. Some people get it and some people just don't care.
Desk Jockey
Member
But this wasn't cheap in cost. Plus it wasn't even a year old. Saiger says his has lasted for many years...using a different solution.
I don't know the particulars but if I had to make a judgment looking at what has been posted, it would appear that it just might be the precondition solution. I would think the crb tech would know what he is talking about. Wouldn't he???
All I know is if Steve is a gentleman, he has mentioned it but made little fuss. I'd afraid I'd be a monster until I was compensated by the responsible part or parties if each side distanced themselves from blame.
I know I'm a dik but I'd stalk every post with my experience and let the prospective buyer be the judge.
I don't know the particulars but if I had to make a judgment looking at what has been posted, it would appear that it just might be the precondition solution. I would think the crb tech would know what he is talking about. Wouldn't he???
All I know is if Steve is a gentleman, he has mentioned it but made little fuss. I'd afraid I'd be a monster until I was compensated by the responsible part or parties if each side distanced themselves from blame.
I know I'm a dik but I'd stalk every post with my experience and let the prospective buyer be the judge.
I am not saying that the cost was cheep. I know that you pay a lot of money for your equipment and you want quality from your manufacture. I am not saying Steve is not a nice guy- where did you get that idea from. The quality of coating on aluminum and cheep plastic gears... The question should be is any system coated or not? Cleaning with a system that is built well not built cheep. Built to last.
Desk Jockey
Member
My question would be is this an isolated incident or is this what can be expected when using your product or similar chemistry???
Bob Pruitt
Member
Do you drink the pre-spray? Because that's what we are having problems with.
Pioneer Floorcare
Member
I wouldn't be nearly as nice as you!But this wasn't cheap in cost. Plus it wasn't even a year old. Saiger says his has lasted for many years...using a different solution.
I don't know the particulars but if I had to make a judgment looking at what has been posted, it would appear that it just might be the precondition solution. I would think the crb tech would know what he is talking about. Wouldn't he???
All I know is if Steve is a gentleman, he has mentioned it but made little fuss. I'd afraid I'd be a monster until I was compensated by the responsible part or parties if each side distanced themselves from blame.
I know I'm a dik but I'd stalk every post with my experience and let the prospective buyer be the judge.
If any manufacture is going to distribute cleaning equipment they should have a label and apply it to their cleaning system. "Caution" Do not use with sodium based cleaning products" Place it on their web site. I will be the first to say that our product is not perfect and nothing is but I believe that we all need to be a good steward when it comes to protecting your health and your customers health. There are many different toxic cleaning pro and ducts out there. So with this being said you have a choice and it is your choice as it is everyone's choice to clean with any product of choice. I will be stand behind Procyon because thousands upon thousands of professionals have made their choice and have used our products for over 30 years. They have not had any issues with our product. There equipment is not built cheep. I am not picking on any one product or any one piece of equipment.
I know I'm a dik but I'd stalk every post with my experience and let the prospective buyer be the judge. Did I offend you? I would hope that everyone takes in to consideration quality of products. I am a fan of CRB of 
))
I know I'm a dik but I'd stalk every post with my experience and let the prospective buyer be the judge.
Did I offend you? I would hope that everyone takes in to consideration quality of products. I am a fan of CRB of ))
I can not say if this was an one time thing. The only thing I see is different CRB manufactures equipment are just setting in the custodial closet because of stripped gears.
Desk Jockey
Member
I know I'm a dik but I'd stalk every post with my experience and let the prospective buyer be the judge. Did I offend you?
No you didn't, this is not a personal attack.
I'm merely stating if it had happened to me I would not be as understanding with either the CRB seller or the chemical manufacturer. It didn't happen to everyone in the buy group so I would expect some support from both parties. Not the two of them pointing fingers leaving me out in the cold.
Did I offend you?No you didn't, this is not a personal attack.
I'm merely stating if it had happened to me I would not be as understanding with either the CRB seller or the chemical manufacturer. It didn't happen to everyone in the buy group so I would expect some support from both parties. Not the two of them pointing fingers leaving me out in the cold.
Bob Pruitt
Member
Plastic gears don't seem good enough for the hard use a CRB gets but eating aluminum? Most of the TM waste tanks are aluminum.
dgardner
Moderator
I can't imagine the solution was corrosive to the plastic gears. Perhaps it got into the bearings, seized one and the gear(s) broke due to that? I'm thinking for everyone's peace of mind it would be good to get the mechanic to write up a description of what he found - seems there is more to it than just a broken plastic gear. Perhaps with a little knowledge everyone can avoid the specific circumstances that caused the failure....
Mikey P
Administrator
I know that their are at least a thousand other people who use our products in other CRB systems made by other company's. I also know that our products have been used over the past 5 years in our CRB system with no issues as well. I needed to hear back from the sales teams and professionals that worked everyday with this system for over 5 years. I waited 5 years and made my discussion to private label this powerful tough system our adjusted list is $6,900.00. If there was a problem in the industry with our product I would have hoped we would have known about it by now. This afternoon was the first I have heard of this issue on our product. I have been around a long time and just a little over a week ago our CRB all steel coated unit was brought up on the board. I felt that this was a direct slap in the face today with the small indirect hit.
Steve Lawrence
Member
It was a slap in the face to me to buy 3 CRB's, use Procyon with them only to be told that Procyon was the problem with my damaged unit and that I would pay for repairs on a 10 month old unit.
Zee
Supportive Member
Ivan..... Proofread.
Cheap is the word you're looking for.
Your first response to this thread, is the type that makes people not wanting to buy your stuff.
If you really try to push the health side of things, I don't think saying "I drink Procyon" is smart. And that's not an attack on how you look like...
Cheap is the word you're looking for.
Your first response to this thread, is the type that makes people not wanting to buy your stuff.
If you really try to push the health side of things, I don't think saying "I drink Procyon" is smart. And that's not an attack on how you look like...
Bob Pruitt
Member
I thought I was the one moving to Texas. It could be an issue!
ruff
Member
How long did Steve use Procyon with the CRB?
What was used before and for how long?
What exactly is the damage and where is it?
Who does the CRB tech work for?
How much pre-spray is being used? As I recall Rick's machines are the ones not recommended for use in heavy water situation.
........and yes. If the machines should not be used with products that contain certain chemicals, the manufacturer should specify what these chemicals are.
What was used before and for how long?
What exactly is the damage and where is it?
Who does the CRB tech work for?
How much pre-spray is being used? As I recall Rick's machines are the ones not recommended for use in heavy water situation.
........and yes. If the machines should not be used with products that contain certain chemicals, the manufacturer should specify what these chemicals are.
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Mikey P
Administrator
ruff
Member
He already did in his Webinar. It isn't.
Mikey P
Administrator
I'm tempted to open up my 10" to see whats going on in there.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
I've known Steve L for most of 20 years. Straight shooter, no drama no BS.
regarossa
Member
Hi folks! sorry for the delay...
I worked on Steve’s machine myself when I saw the extent of damage and wanted to see what had caused this to occur.
This was a situation where extensive metal corrosion resulted in bearing failure as well as rust on multiple areas of steel inside the housing.
When we opened it up, we saw a lot of rust dust. The gears were not at issue, it was the bearings on the lower gears that drive the brushes that had seized and could not be extracted from the side plate.
I called Steve to ask what pre-spray he was using and see what his cleanup procedures were on the machine at the end of day. He said he was using a few different ones, Procyon being one of them. For those who don’t already know, Procyon dries down to a salt crystal. I told Steve that it seems something he was using was causing this corrosion and combined with lax end of day clean up procedures, has caused damage to the machine. I recommended his best course of action was to stop whatever he was using and vastly improve his end of day maintenance procedure.
The take away-
If you don’t maintain your machine, it will eventually fail no matter what you are using.
If you use Procyon and don’t flush your machine at the end of the day, you will eventually damage it as the salt will corrode some of the high carbon steel inside. It’s as simple as that.
So, no matter what you use as a pre-spray, you have to clean the machine out at least at the end of the day. Flush it with fresh water, mainly inside the brush housing. Just wiping it down doesn’t cut it when you are using corrosive chemistry.
Since Ivan brought it up, lets discuss the “cheap plastic gears” he keeps using in his sales pitch.
Our gears are made of plastic by design. The gears are designed to fail before damaging the motor. In a situation where an immovable object meets an unstoppable force, this keeps your motor alive. Furthermore, this is no ordinary plastic polymer that our gears are made of. If you have ever owned or fired a Glock handgun, it also has a lot of Ivan’s so called “cheap plastic” components as well.
That being said, there are other machines that look exactly like ours and do have very cheap plastic gears, however ours are not the same plastic as those. I will let them defend their own gears.
To sum it up, know what is in your chemistry and take precautions against any corrosive element as it relates to your tools. Salt is certainly not the only one.
Reg
I worked on Steve’s machine myself when I saw the extent of damage and wanted to see what had caused this to occur.
This was a situation where extensive metal corrosion resulted in bearing failure as well as rust on multiple areas of steel inside the housing.
When we opened it up, we saw a lot of rust dust. The gears were not at issue, it was the bearings on the lower gears that drive the brushes that had seized and could not be extracted from the side plate.
I called Steve to ask what pre-spray he was using and see what his cleanup procedures were on the machine at the end of day. He said he was using a few different ones, Procyon being one of them. For those who don’t already know, Procyon dries down to a salt crystal. I told Steve that it seems something he was using was causing this corrosion and combined with lax end of day clean up procedures, has caused damage to the machine. I recommended his best course of action was to stop whatever he was using and vastly improve his end of day maintenance procedure.
The take away-
If you don’t maintain your machine, it will eventually fail no matter what you are using.
If you use Procyon and don’t flush your machine at the end of the day, you will eventually damage it as the salt will corrode some of the high carbon steel inside. It’s as simple as that.
So, no matter what you use as a pre-spray, you have to clean the machine out at least at the end of the day. Flush it with fresh water, mainly inside the brush housing. Just wiping it down doesn’t cut it when you are using corrosive chemistry.
Since Ivan brought it up, lets discuss the “cheap plastic gears” he keeps using in his sales pitch.
Our gears are made of plastic by design. The gears are designed to fail before damaging the motor. In a situation where an immovable object meets an unstoppable force, this keeps your motor alive. Furthermore, this is no ordinary plastic polymer that our gears are made of. If you have ever owned or fired a Glock handgun, it also has a lot of Ivan’s so called “cheap plastic” components as well.
That being said, there are other machines that look exactly like ours and do have very cheap plastic gears, however ours are not the same plastic as those. I will let them defend their own gears.
To sum it up, know what is in your chemistry and take precautions against any corrosive element as it relates to your tools. Salt is certainly not the only one.
Reg
Bob Pruitt
Member
Thank you for clearing that up for me...that makes sense.
Steve Lawrence
Member
Thanks for chiming in, Reg, but I must take issue with your claim that we didn't do proper maintenance. As stated before, we clean our CRB's every day. Religiously. We love those things. We were hoping to get many more years of service without the need for repairs. We were not warned of using Procyon or similar products. I do appreciate your kindness to me on the cost of the repairs.
Also, you seem to be suggesting that it's okay to use Procyon with the CRB as long as you do thorough rinsing and cleaning afterwards. I disagree because we did that and still had the unit fail. We have discontinued using CRB's with Procyon altogether and will find a suitable substitute without salt.
regarossa
Member
Yes correct- the 10" is not rated for rug pit use.
Mikey P
Administrator
So can a silicone or rubber gasket be applied to keep out those pesky salts?
Nate The Great
Member
regarossa
Member
I hear you Steve, and I don't mean to cast a bad light on your maintenance procedure. At the end of the day I have to call as I see it when I open up the machine.
Whatever the reason, salt corrodes steel and procyon has salt in it. So use at your own risk. However if you do, you must take very good care and rinse the hell out of that machine.
Contrary to what was said previously in this thread...there is no bulletproof coating that prevents this. Steel and salt don't like each other and you can coat it with whatever you want but eventually the salt will win. Ask any sailor...
regarossa
Member
The PRO versions are IP54 rated to resist dust and water intrusion at up to 60psi in all directions. That rating is for the PRO chassis, not just the motor.
We don't have a PRO version of the 10" at this time. It is based off of our TM platform.
