10 pounds of s*#t in a 5 pound bag.........

[floorguy]

diversification will be the key if things tank....

 

[Jim Martin]

I can't tell from the photo, but do you have a fresh water tank in that setup?

No...I havent had a fresh tank since my old Vortex..I have no use for one.....

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim,

What are the aforementioned quirks with the 570?
I am considering that unit for the future and just wana know as much as I can from an actual user and not a dealer or salesman.

It only has the one problem....and like I said it will not stop me from buying another but this issue really needs to be fixed....

there is a pressure valve that will only allow a certain amount of pressure into the machine..all water has to go threw this first......

on the tank there is a radiator cap...and if the pressure gets over 25 PSI...the cap will release and start dumping water....

I am on my 3rd valve and 2nd radiator cap....It seems like it works fine for a while then all the sudden it just starts leaking...

I am going to start concentrating on this issue and see if I can figure it out once and for all....I am starting with house pressures....

none of them are the same...at some houses the pressure is so high that I can disconnect my hose and open the my shut off valve and the back pressure can shoot water almost across the street....

so I bought a regulator that monitors the pressure and only allows 45 psi to van.....

there is a lot of questions and things I need to figure out on this....

1...is it my water softener hurting these valves...?

2...can I put a adjustable valve like this one before my water softener and just be done with it...?

3...Can my water softener work the way it should with less the 25 psi going into it....?

4...but here is the big question that I need to figure out....lets say that I have less then 25 psi going into the van....and into that tank with the cap on it...while I am working...everything is fine...stop working to switch rooms or what ever and then the pressure is building inside this tank it going to exceed it's 25 psi limit and the cap pops.....what is stopping this tank from building pressure when no water is moving...this question here may be the whole answer to the problem.........is a heavy duty check valve the answer........

this is its only problem...aside from that IMO it is one of the best slide in's out there...great vacuum and killer heat on this machine....runs great and can out do my thermalwave....

but...when this valve goes..it goes hard and then you have to start adjusting it down to get it to slow down....but once it goes you can't get it to completely stop...
I am sure that the clients don't care to see there dollar signs in water running down the street and it is killing the charge on my softener......
the performance of the machine out weighs this problem so I am not losing to much sleep over it but...it is something that I am going to try and solve once and for all........

Don't let this discourage you from this machine...you get one you wont be sorry....pretty sure me or someone will have this fixed once in for all in the near future.....it just going to be a step by step process until I can get the right combination.....

 

[TConway]

Jim I think you need a small pop off valve Mc master Carr sells them you can cet them in 10 15 20.... and plumb it with a line that will go through the floor so it doesn't flood your van. I think you can get them in 1/4 or 1/2 size.

 

[Desk Jockey]

If you carried fresh water do you think the regulator would still be an issue?

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim I think you need a small pop off valve Mc master Carr sells them you can cet them in 10 15 20.... and plumb it with a line that will go through the floor so it doesn't flood your van. I think you can get them in 1/4 or 1/2 size.

It not flooding the van there is a hose on the cap ( just like a radiator but bigger ) and I extended it and drop it out the door....The key here is to not let it dump water...

BTW...look in the pictures and see that pool filter that I am using....that's because I need a new top for my devastator filter....

 

[Jim Martin]

If you carried fresh water do you think the regulator would still be an issue?

don't know...but I really don't have any room for a fresh tank and have no desire to get one...

 

[kingjoelking]

Why not put that regulator in between the softwater tank and the machine?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Jim Martin]

Why not put that regulator in between the softwater tank and the machine?

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk 4

because at this point and time I am not sure if it is the salt water that is hurting the regulator....they seem to hold out ok for awhile and then they just go out......

 

[clean image]

JIm, so there is no pressure break between house hook up pressure and the water tank(which is always under pressure) on unit?

will unit not start if there is no water pressure applied to tank?

if water temp does not get over 212, then only reason to pressurize it would to be to force feed inlet on prressure pump(pump is higher than water sorce), or as part of the saftey bleed off?

 

[Jim Martin]

Not that I am aware of.....the water comes in from the house and straight into the softener....from there it goes to a regulator that is set at 15 psi.....then it is pre-heated and sent to the water box.....from the water box the pump picks it up and it is sent thru the heat exchangers and then to a manifold...from there it feeds my solution line....

machine will start and run with no pressure hooked up..you can drain the water box and it will still run....

I see nothing to stop this water box from going over 25 psi and popping the cap....but I have not really dug into this that deep...

 

[jcooper]

Don't let this discourage you from this machine...you get one you wont be sorry....pretty sure me or someone will have this fixed once in for all in the near future.....it just going to be a step by step process until I can get the right combination.....

Yea, but for the money, you shouldn't have to do anything!

I have a 370, the float for the waterbox is right under the water inlet. So, it dumps water onto the float. Then overfills and dumps under van.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Jim;

Surely, Sapphire knows what is happening . . .

What has been their response on the parts you have replaced ?

This also may be a clue:

then it is pre-heated and sent to the water box.

The pre-heater may be building back-pressure on the regulator and cap,

as it heats the water.

Larry

 

[clean image]

well, seems they engineered it that way, cause that 10 gallon tank(i think) going from room temp water at 15 psi, and going to 165 degrees , is enough thermo expansion to hit 25psi.

It may be a back up type system if the 165 thermo valve was to fail, having a 2nd system to intoduce cooler water.

so, how does air in your garden hose (assuming your live reels) escape this closed loop. other than the radiator cap expelling it. this air may also premature pop cap

 

[Jim Martin]

Jim;

Surely, Sapphire knows what is happening . . .

What has been their response on the parts you have replaced ?

This also may be a clue:



The pre-heater may be building back-pressure on the regulator and cap,

as it heats the water.

Larry

Sapphire has bent over backwards for me since I got this unit...could not ask for better service....

I am not the kind of person that jumps on the phone with every little problem...I like a good challenge of trying to figure out things on my own first...

The pre-heater may be building back-pressure on the regulator and cap,

as it heats the water.

it will start dumping water out the over flow when I hook up the fresh water supply hose to the house and turn the water on..with out the machine running.......

 

[Jim Martin]

well, seems they engineered it that way, cause that 10 gallon tank(i think) going from room temp water at 15 psi, and going to 165 degrees , is enough thermo expansion to hit 25psi.

It may be a back up type system if the 165 thermo valve was to fail, having a 2nd system to intoduce cooler water.

so, how does air in your garden hose (assuming your live reels) escape this closed loop. other than the radiator cap expelling it. this air may also premature pop cap

not sure because if I put a new pressure valve on it ..everything will work great for a while then all the sudden it starts leaking again....
I was told a long time ago that it does not matter but one thing I always make sure of is that no air is in my lines...
I have a shut off valve right at the hose connection and I shut it off before I disconnect the hose and hold the pressure........

 

[Jerry]

Jerry, I had the same thing happen. I put a longer length of hose on and looped back into the fresh water tank(water pond) I was sick of it dribbling onto the ground, especially in the winter months. Had the same issue with my old Powerclean unit.

 

[Jim Martin]

I checked my house pressure and it was about 72 psi.....

I hooked the fresh water hose up and let it build pressure......and is started dumping out the over flow......

so I disconnected everything and relived the pressure...then hooked up my regulator to the hose bib and it dropped the pressure to 45 PSI...
I made a small adjustment on the regulator on the machine..... and it took it a few minutes but it leveled off and stopped running....

ran the machine and almost peaked it on the heat...

not a drop came out the over flow......cooled it down and let it idle with nothing but water pressure and still did fine...
heated it up again and pressure washed the big truck off and still nothing..cooled it back down and so far it is holding fine...
so I guess it is a start and will see where this takes me.............

to be continued..............

 

[ruff]

Took me a bit to get a good lay out that was convenient to work with and user friendly......
Once I got it.....everything fell into place....I managed to get all this in and have some extra room for anything else that I need.....

plenty of room to still allow the machine to breath and do maintenance on the machine...can reach everything on shelf unit with no problems....

installed a roof vent to take the heat out......wired it into the accessory switch on the machine simple on and off....

works out perfect..no rattle squeaks or things banging around nice and quiet....

Nice set up Jim.
I may be moving my Apex to a regular van, got a few questions:

• Can't see from the picture- How much space (inches) between the driver/passenger seat and the machine?
• Did you put the vent because it is a lot hotter in Arizona, I assume you're working with both side and back doors open? Or is it to release some heat after you're done while driving?
• Does the shelf somewhat limits the machine's ability to breathe?
• Do you think there will be enough air movement (on my Apex I added a fan to draw air away from the motor) for the machine to breathe with the back door closed? That will enable me to secure rugs in the back.

 

[Jim Martin]

Nice set up Jim.
I may be moving my Apex to a regular van, got a few questions:

• Can't see from the picture- How much space (inches) between the driver/passenger seat and the machine?
• Did you put the vent because it is a lot hotter in Arizona, I assume you're working with both side and back doors open? Or is it to release some heat after you're done while driving?
• Does the shelf somewhat limits the machine's ability to breathe?
• Do you think there will be enough air movement (on my Apex I added a fan to draw air away from the motor) for the machine to breathe with the back door closed? That will enable me to secure rugs in the back.

I have almost 9 inches between the seats and the machine and just over 20 inches between the shelf unit and the machine...

I put the vent in because it gets really hot here..and it helps a lot to pull the heat out of the van...I don't drive with the vent open...but after I am done cleaning it is not that hot in the van...no hotter then the cab over gets when I get up into it after a job....another thing that it is good for is like today I was off..when I pulled it in yesterday I cracked it open a few inches and the van stays cooler as it sits in the yard........

I made it a point to put the fresh water supply hose and the APO hose on the left side of the van ( or street side )...that way if I am parked in the street I can just flip the hoses over and close that door...so I don't have to worry about it flying all the way open and sticking out on the street....sometimes I clean with that one closed but if I am backed into a drive way out of the street then I just leave it open......but at least 3 doors are always open...

with the shelf unit sitting where it is the machine has plenty of air to breath and not give it any heating problems....not to mention I have more then enough room to service it....

Depends on what type of roof vent you get..some of them go all the way up to 920 cfm's...that should be more then plenty to exhaust the air out with the back end closed up.....

 

[davegillfishing]

jim..my 570 will be here in about 2 weeks..i am having a 200 gallon fresh water tank built to feed the machine..just like the butlers..hopefully i wont have the same problem you are having..

i am setting everything up in a 3500 extended gmc with the 6.0 found a insane deal on one so i grabbed it..

thanks for the lay out pics..its about the same way in laying mine out..that helped for sure..

i am wanting to put the filter box at the rear door instead of using a pool style..have you heard anything good or bad about saffires filter box?

i will post up pics of mine once done..
dave

 

[Jim Martin]

jim..my 570 will be here in about 2 weeks..i am having a 200 gallon fresh water tank built to feed the machine..just like the butlers..hopefully i wont have the same problem you are having..

i am setting everything up in a 3500 extended gmc with the 6.0 found a insane deal on one so i grabbed it..

thanks for the lay out pics..its about the same way in laying mine out..that helped for sure..

i am wanting to put the filter box at the rear door instead of using a pool style..have you heard anything good or bad about saffires filter box?

i will post up pics of mine once done..
dave

as much as I like just about everything that has come out of the sapphire barn.....I have to be honest and say I did not care for the filter and returned it....the top leaked air to much...I like the devastator filter for the 570....

I don't want to go to far out on a limb and say I that I think that I have the problem I was describing solved....But so far..once I started regulating the pressure coming into the van...I have used it 3 times..( one was a pretty good size job )...... and not a drop of water came out the over flow...
I am taking tomorrow off...but I plan on running it hard the rest of the week and we will see what happens.................

 

[Becker]

Thanks Jim,

I bolted in my hose reel today, and placed my chem shelf. ( unbolted )

Sitting here thinking of lay out and the gear I want to pack in, and I thought.. Huh, maybe I'll mount my chem shelf sideways.

I went down moved it, played around with a few things, and I have to say.. I like it. I can reach more from the side door on each shelf, and have full gallons on top shelf with it in this position. Yet it still offers me room between the machine and shelf for the wand, pump out hose.

Around back it opens up half the width of the van.

I'll bolt it in this was in the next couple of days, top and bottom....

 

[Jim Martin]

I checked my house pressure and it was about 72 psi.....

I hooked the fresh water hose up and let it build pressure......and is started dumping out the over flow......

so I disconnected everything and relived the pressure...then hooked up my regulator to the hose bib and it dropped the pressure to 45 PSI...
I made a small adjustment on the regulator on the machine..... and it took it a few minutes but it leveled off and stopped running....

ran the machine and almost peaked it on the heat...

not a drop came out the over flow......cooled it down and let it idle with nothing but water pressure and still did fine...
heated it up again and pressure washed the big truck off and still nothing..cooled it back down and so far it is holding fine...
so I guess it is a start and will see where this takes me.............

to be continued..............

I have pounded the hell out of this machine.......I have been running as hard as it will go.....today I did a job that took me just over 5 hours....I kept switching the PSI from carpet to tile...I was moving all over the place and at times the machine was just running full out building heat and pressure......

Not a single drop of water has come out of the over flow hose since I put the pressure regulator on it and slowed down the pressure going into the machine.....
This was to easy.......but it looks like it was all she needed.......

I think that I am going to put the big truck on moth balls for awhile and stay with the van...its been kinda nice working out of this thing and with this machine......

 

[davegillfishing]

good job jim!! what kind of solution hose do you run and have you noticed any faster wear with all that heat?

 

[Jim Martin]

good job jim!! what kind of solution hose do you run and have you noticed any faster wear with all that heat?

I have ran good year hose since day one and have never had any problems...I change them out once a year .....
i don't run the heat that high when I am cleaning...the 570 can hold what ever I set it at..normally around 220 or 230..