12v clutches

[Out of Character - 0]

I just recently realized that 2 of our machines have 2000psi heat exchangers and we've never run them past 1000. Since we've been running higher pressures on t&g our pro2000 has eaten 2 clutches (soon to be 3) in less than 500hrs. The clutch isn't strong enough to spin two roots 45's @ 15hg and go past 1200psi. I'm not wanting to reduce the hg's if we don't have to.

What is the strongest 2 groove clutch I can get on the front of our white magic shaft?

Thank you.

 

[Duane Oxley]

So, you're running two blowers from one clutch?

Any chance of putting clutches on the blowers and putting a pulley at the end of the drive shaft? That way, a clutch would be only driving one blower, so the load would be half as much.

 

[FredC]

Then the driveshaft would be spinning at all times..........that doesn't sound like a good idea for a few reasons.........



I know Pitts, and I assume others, has heavier duty clutches available

http://www.pittsindustries.com/pitts-clutches-catalog/

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Yes 2 45's Duane. I'd thought about 2 rear clutches but as Fred stated the shaft will always be spinning and I'm not sure that is a good idea.

 

[Duane Oxley]

Yes 2 45's Duane. I'd thought about 2 rear clutches but as Fred stated the shaft will always be spinning and I'm not sure that is a good idea.

A clutch rated for more torque is likely to be larger than the one installed on your system currently. And if it's larger (not diameter, so much as front- to- back), it will likely not line up the same as the current one. As a result, the shaft will have to be moved back accordingly. That will change the alignment of everything at the rear of the shaft. A pulley, on the other hand, will not be as large and should be able to be moved on the shaft in order to maintain current alignment.

I'm guessing that it would be simpler to make adjustments at the blower end, than under the hood. The shaft, if I'm not mistaken, is mounted between two "pillow blocks", which contain ball bearings and grease fittings. If you make it a point to not ignore due maintenance, such a configuration should last for years.

Of course, PTO's / CDS's aren't my "thing", so I could be missing something here. But looking at it from the standpoint of principles at work, this is what I see.

 

[FredC]

Why would the shaft be pushed back or change at all? IF it is larger, using the same mounting, if anything it would just be more forward in the engine bay (the belt grooves). A certain amount of that could be compensated for by the belts (*depending on year). If needed spacers could be added to the drive pulley..........or a deeper pulley added.......

unless I'm missing something

 

[Duane Oxley]

If I could draw a diagram here, I could explain it better. But basically, let's say that the one used now is two and a half inches, front- to- back and the new one is 3 inches. There would have to be 1/2" of movement somewhere to compensate.

The pulley system on the van engine is the start point and fixed in position. The clutch, if grooved the same, would have to be positioned as before, from an alignment standpoint. But, there would still be 1/2" behind that to be adjusted for. You could have the shaft itself shortened. But moving the shaft back would be simpler, if possible.

 

[FredC]

the front of newer WM (Chevy/gm)

View attachment 847

View attachment 848

 

[FredC]

The pulley system on the van engine is the start point and fixed in position. The clutch, if grooved the same, would have to be positioned as before, from an alignment standpoint. But, there would still be 1/2" behind that to be adjusted for. You could have the shaft itself shortened. But moving the shaft back would be simpler, if possible.

The drive pulley is an aftermarket piece with spacer...........


View attachment 849

 

[Duane Oxley]

The drive pulley is an aftermarket piece with spacer...........


View attachment 849

You won't really know until you get a different clutch. But having a spacer there does tend to make an adaptation easier.

 

[AshleyMckendree]

Sounds like he has an "A" Belt clutch, if so the power a single A belt can provide is VERY limited, and will start to slip quickly, producing LOTS of HEAT, therefore burning up the clutch.

On a typical 6" clutch turning at 1500 RPM, Each A Belt provides in the neighborhood of 6.4 HP, for a grand total of 12.8HP.

On the Dual blower WM that I am familiar with, they are severly under-driving both blowers, at a maximum of 2100 RPM. Requiring around 7.5 HP each, providing 160CFM a piece.

So, without a pump asking for an aditional 2+hp on the system, your already putting more demand on the clutch belts than they are able to supply.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

So is a single 6 groove stronger than the 2 v belts? if so how much? I have whole new front end kit for that van that uses a 6 groove.

I have 3 wm's in fords and they are all different. One is a 7 groove, ones a 6, ones got 2 v's, and the new kit i have is a 6 groover.

There is no spacers on my clutches. I haven't broken a belt on this one yet but on the 6 groove system an excessive load causes slipping and belt failure.

Thanks guys

 

[Duane Oxley]

I'm not a big fan of the small belts typically used on multi- groove pulley systems. They tend to use smaller diameter pulleys and require more side- load as a result, which places more stress on bearings. Larger pulleys have more "belt wrap" (a longer portion of the belt is in constant contact with the pulley, than a smaller pulley would provide) get more traction in the process and therefore slip less- so the tension that they require is not as much as with smaller pulleys. As a result, there is less side- load necessary on the bearings.

The more belts, the smaller diameter they tend to be.

If you have a choice of larger pulleys vs. smaller, go larger. And if you can do multiple larger belts vs. multiple smaller ones, go larger, IMO.

 

[FredC]

not a spacer on the clutch...other than the adapter plate.....behind the drive pulleyand

possibly behind the tensioner.

The point of me putting up the pics was to show that if the clutch ended up forward of its original position this could be made up for with a spacer behind the drive pulley.

My earlier manuals don't have pics.

 

[Kipp]

I have the WM pro 1200 with HV option. I just ordered a new clutch. The HV option requires a heavy duty 7" 6 groove clutch since it pulls 20 HGs

Maybe that clutch would help?

 

[Out of Character - 0]

yes, maybe. Where did you order it and what part # if you know?

 

[Kipp]

Interlink ordered it through Sapphire...$411

Steambrite claims they know who WM ordered there parts from so they might be able to get you one at a better price.

I did have the part number I will try to find it...

 

[AshleyMckendree]

7" 6 Groove 375.00
http://www.***************/white-magic-serpentine-clutch-groove-tapered-p-5916.html

 

[Duane Oxley]

Post a picture of it. I'm curious to see what it looks like.

And what is the bore size?

 

[AshleyMckendree]

It should be a standard Taper bore that's on all DD shafts. http://coastalhyd.com/pdfs/p31.pdf Here are some dimensions of the tapered bore from Pitts.

I have one of the 7" Clutches on a shelf that was on a WM 1200 HV, it is BEEFY! I will take a pic later today and post it.

 

[FredC]

If he switches to the 1200HV clutch would it require the adapter plate and retaining ring?

View attachment 852

 

[AshleyMckendree]

Mine does not, it has the mounting bolts on the outside of the field coil, the one you have pictured has the mounting holes on the inside of the field coil

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Here's your clutch selections. Bottom of the page are the tapered variety typical of WM, Steam Genie, etc.
Some are available only through OEM's, such as Sapphire. Ogura is very protective of their OEM customers.

You should be aware of the limitations of these clutches, and that of the belt drive, and the side loading you will be putting on the engine pulleys (for two 45's)

 

[Jimmy L]

Shawn my cleanco quad 56's clutch is squeeking .
Just put a new clutch in jan and just a couple weeks ago replaced a couple idler pulleys.

It uses a PITTS #14194 100 lb static torque rating

What would you suggest to do with the squeeking?

Would a more robust clutch from Ogura work better and last longer?

Pitts direct quoted me a price of $210 + shipping.

I need some advice.

 

[AshleyMckendree]

Shawn my cleanco quad 56's clutch is squeeking .
Just put a new clutch in jan and just a couple weeks ago replaced a couple idler pulleys.

It uses a PITTS #14194 100 lb static torque rating

What would you suggest to do with the squeeking?

Would a more robust clutch from Ogura work better and last longer?

Pitts direct quoted me a price of $210 + shipping.

I need some advice.

Change your serpintine belt to a "gates fleet runner" they are green on the back and almost twice as thick. They grab MUCH BETTER. And hardly ever "chirp"

Get them from discountfleetsupply.com
They usually cost the same as a regular serp belt.




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[Shawn Forsythe]

Jimmy,

Try Ashley's suggestion, if you think it might be the belt.

If the clutch....

Did you "season" the clutch, when it was newly installed. This involves repeatedly cycling the clutch to ensure that the mating surfaces acquire a better mating and to "square up" minute misalignment. Also, does that cutch assembly have provision for setting the field to pulley gap? It should be around 3/32", and is usually set by shimming the field onto the mounting plate. You "assemble" the two clutch parts, but bolt the pulley first. Then determine the gap, if the field were installed with no shims. Then use enough washers to gap the field to 3/32". Too much gap may result in clutch slippage, too little and you run the risk of the field making contact with the pulley, when under belt stress and load.

 

[Jimmy L]

Tried the green fleet liner and it just wore out my idler pulleys faster.

Even tried a gator back belt.

The clutch was in stalled by interlink.

It sounds like the clutch is squeeking but you think it's the belt?

It's a Gates KO61203

The belt Jeff at Cleanco in canada told me to buy.

It cost me $53

Should I just replace the belt?

 

[AshleyMckendree]

Wore out your idler pulleys???

Dude I have had dozens of pto units, and can only recall replacing ONE idler, and we run our systems HARD, and put way more tension on them then they were designed for.

Btw that belt at discount fleet supply would be around 40 bucks.


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