370SS Installed into 6x10 Trailer

[Hoody]

I stopped by John's to have a look-see while I was picking up a few things there. Very very impressed with the set up, and still room to put a 175, and a few other things inside as well.

 

[Gary T]

Not a gross weight issue, but a tongue weight issue. Looks like you have all the weight up front. Not good for handling.

 

[clean one]

Very nice setup John, i have a 6x10 with a TNT chem shelve, hose reels and a 70 gallon water tank. It pulls just great. Have no idea what the weight is. But i can't hardly tell its behind the F-350 power stroke even at 70mph

 

[rotovacguy]

Not a gross weight issue, but a tongue weight issue. Looks like you have all the weight up front. Not good for handling.

Gary, that's EXACTLY where you want the weight!! Of course, you don't want to exceed the tongue weight limit, or the gross weight limit that your hitch or vehicle was designed for.


I drove semi for 15 years, pulling 2 even 3 trailers at a time. You ALWAYS wanted the heavy stuff towards the front of the trailer (without overloading it), and gradually scaling the weight back. Your lead trailer should be the heaviest, while the back trailer should be lighter. The further back the weight, the greater the "whipping" effect will be.

 

[Gary T]

A tractor trailer is a far cry from a single axle trailer pulled by a half ton or 3/4 ton vehicle. Compare apples to apples.

In a single axle trailer, you want most weight over the axle. This number will go up slightly for a double axle. Too much forward weight can cause vehicle handling issues. Too much rear weight WILL cause excessive trailer sway. 10-15% of gross weight on the tongue is what you are shooting for. Google it.

Ive been pulling small trailers for 25 years. I'm not gonna tell you how a to load a tractor trailer, cause I don't know. I know small trailers. If you treat them the same, not a good thing.

 

[John Olson]

The Loading isn't an issue I promise. The trailer is balanced and loaded appropriately.

P.S. Are you sure your tandem axle 6x12 is only 1500? If so something is seriously wrong there.

 

[rotovacguy]

Not a gross weight issue, but a tongue weight issue. Looks like you have all the weight up front. Not good for handling.

Gary, that's EXACTLY where you want the weight!! Of course, you don't want to exceed the tongue weight limit, or the gross weight limit that your hitch or vehicle was designed for.


I drove semi for 15 years, pulling 2 even 3 trailers at a time. You ALWAYS wanted the heavy stuff towards the front of the trailer (without overloading it), and gradually scaling the weight back. Your lead trailer should be the heaviest, while the back trailer should be lighter. The further back the weight, the greater the "whipping" effect will be.

Gary, if you READ what I said, you'll see I am comparing apples to apples. Just cause a semi is larger then a pick up, doesn't mean the physics change. And I've pulled many a small trailer, too. Also pulled 28' pups running 2 even 3 in a row, 45', 48', and 53' trailers, totaling well over a million miles. It's all relevant, just the gross weight is higher for a semi.


The closer the weight is to the axle of the trailer, the more of a springboard effect you'll get. The weight will "load" up the springs, hit a bump, and watch the recoil!! woo hoo!! How is THAT good for handling?? :roll:


Now I agree, placing TOO MUCH weight on the tongue, or exceeding the gross is not good either. But I can assure you just by looking at the way John has that set up, it's fine and probably handles great.


But you stick to what works for you, I'm just offering an experienced opinion. Do you KNOW the source for your google advice? I wouldn't trust everything you read on the web.

 

[Gary T]

Just cause a semi is larger then a pick up, doesn't mean the physics change.

Really?

Who's physics do you use?

Now I completely doubt you have ever seen a semi, let alone ever drove one.

The only thing the same between them is they both tow. How they are connected is completely different. The weight distribution is completely different. Not sure if you noticed before, but a semi's trailer is connected directly over either 1 or 2 axles distributing most of the trailer's weight to the semi tractor(who's sole purpose is to take that weight and haul it).

A small trailer is connected to a tow vehicle up to 24" behind it's rear axle and usually about even in height, greatly reducing it's load bearing ability. The rear axle is now a fulcrum, with the trailer tongue weight pushing down on the rear of the vehicle(not over an axle, behind it), forcing(physics) the front of the vehicle up. What might you think may happen if you have too much weight on the tongue? Where does most of a vehicle's stopping power come from? How does a vehicle turn? Front wheels. What happens when you hit dips in the road? Or hit the brakes hard. Trailer wants to dive. Now what happens to the handling of a tow vehicle if you have too much tongue weight? Duh.

You can have too much tongue weight without exceeding the specs. All the major manufactures will tell you exactly the same thing, 10-15% of the loaded weight of the trailer for best results.

Alls I'm saying is for John to be cautious with his set up, as it looks to me that he has too much tongue weight in that little trailer. Especially with a full waste tank.

My source for my info is 25 years of pulling and loading small trailers. The understanding of basic physics as it relates to the previous sentence. Also Wells Cargo, Haulmark, Pace. A few of the major manufacturers of trailers.

 

[rotovacguy]

Gary, Did you READ the part where I said not to overload the tongue or the gross weight???



No shit if you overload it you'll have problems!! :roll: I'm merely saying I can just look at the way John has it loaded in there and see that it is spot on.


Take a look at the truckmount John has in there. You think THAT is too much weight??


Let John or anyone else running a setup like that tell you how it handles. You go ahead and mount your truckmount over the axles like you say, and I can tell you right now YOU are at a higher risk for a jackknife or at the very least, an unstable vehicle. By putting the weight over the axles, you are putting the springs under a constant "load", and the recoil will be much higher then with the weight in FRONT of the axles.

As far as the physics go, I think that went over your head. So you think it's safer to have the weight further back, over the axles?? Really?? Now don't get me wrong, Gary, I agree the weight should be dispersed, WITHOUT overloading the tongue! But you are completely wrong about putting the weight over the axles! And John's setup is not overloaded, I can tell just by looking at it.


Don't believe me? Ok, let me give you an example. Take a 45 lb weight, hold it up close to your body and swing from side to side. Now take the same weight, swing your body from side to side, but EXTEND your arms. Notice a difference? Much harder to STOP your body's motion with the weight extended outward, and it's the SAME amount of weight! Now imagine a trailer loaded the way you say to load, weight over the axles, putting the springs under a constant "load". Those short wheelbases hop around enough already, they certainly don't need any more help!! All I can say is if I were on a road with dips and bumps, I'd much rather have the weight in front rather then on top of the axles.

 

[Gary T]

Dude, you have no clue.

My tandem 12X8 has the tm over the axles and waste tank slightly forward of the axles. Just where the trailer manufacturer told us to mount. Handles like a dream. Nearly perfectly balanced. This trailer manufacturer has built and custom built who knows how many thousands of these. Me thinks them and the other manufacturers of the small trailers out there know slightly more than some guy who can't tell the diff between a semi and 6x10 setup.

Next time I pass through Wisco I'll be sure to keep an eye out for you. Cause I for sure don't want to be driving next to or in front of you if you're pulling a trailer.

You claim to have driven semis. What bounces more, an empty or loaded trailer? Them springs need some weight on 'em, takes the bounce out. You gots it ass backwards.

 

[John Olson]

so how 'bout them cougars!

 

[Gary T]

where, what cougars. I don't like big cats.

 

[floorguy]

hummm ill hafta pull out my pics of my old trailer setup and see what you say...

i had the machine in front of the axles, with the hose reel there to....but i was always loading other types of equipment in there as well, so i rather to have my weight in the front, because those other machines where damn heavy...

NEVER NEVER NEVER, in the 5 yrs i had it, did it sway or pull funny...granted i few times it was heavy enough (maybe to heavy) i went to a scale once and between my 84 gmc 1 ton, and trailer i think i broke 12,000... :shock: :shock: :shock:

 

[rotovacguy]

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Ok, Gary, this is straight from the U-Haul website. You still stand by what you say about putting the weight over the axles?


Hmmm....that would explain the horrible condition of Illinois roads. Guys like Gary running around with their pogo stick trailers pounding the pavement!!

 

[Gary T]

Dipshit, have you seen a uhaul trailer? I should ask, Have you seen a nice Uhaul trailer?

If you have 10-15% of gross weight on the tongue, where is the rest of it? If you have a 3000lb trailer and 300lb on the tongue, what carries the remaining 2700lb?

The only things I see hopping around are empties.

I wonder why it is if I add a little weight to my Silverado, just why in the world it rides so much better?

:roll:

 

[Gary T]

Just to give it a shot. I just hooked up my 6X12, I gotta load up the Deer lawn tractor to bring in for service. So I moved about 350-400lbs of floor machines to the front(they were tied down over and slightly forward of the axle maintaining 10-15% of gross weight on tongue) as advised by Rotodrool guy and Uhaul. Pulled it home about 5 miles. What a jumpy, bouncy bitch. Usually rides nice and smooth(a little bouncy cause 400lb isn't near the capacity) Lets see how it rides with 425lbs of lawn tractor tied down over the axle. Should flatten out the ride quite nicely. :wink:

 

[John Olson]

Did you see the Cougars chew up the Beavers last night!

 

[Gary T]

Is that a new show on the WB?

 

[FloorPizza]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Did you see the Cougars chew up the Beavers last night!

Now John, I'm sure you know that a Cougar can't chew up a Beaver until after a Temple marriage...

 

[Lora Olson]

Is that a new show on the WB?

BYU Cougars (my alma matter) embarassed Oregon last night in the Las Vegas bowl...once again proving that the freakin BCS system is a #@%$*& joke.

 

[Lora Olson]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Did you see the Cougars chew up the Beavers last night!

Now John, I'm sure you know that a Cougar can't chew up a Beaver until after a Temple marriage...

Man...that was bbbbbbbaaaaaaaaaddddddddddd! Funny...but bad!!

 

[Gary T]

BYU Cougars (my alma matter) embarassed Oregon last night in the Las Vegas bowl...once again proving that the freakin BCS system is a #@%$*& joke.

$$$$$$$$$ is King in the BCS. I didn't even know there was a game on 'til I saw the news reports, not about the game itself, but about the weather at the game.

 

[Dirtmonger]

Hey John

That's a nice looking setup looks to me to be well thought out. Since you are the first I know to have a functioning 370SS in the field I would be interested in getting your performance evaluation. Especially this time of year how well does it hold heat.

Steve

 

[Jim Pemberton]

BYU Cougars (my alma matter) embarassed Oregon last night in the Las Vegas bowl...once again proving that the freakin BCS system is a #@%$*& joke.

Lora said #@%$*& .........I'm shocked!

 

[Greenie]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Did you see the Cougars chew up the Beavers last night!

Now John, I'm sure you know that a Cougar can't chew up a Beaver until after a Temple marriage...

THAT is a funny damn post.

 

[rotovacguy]

Trailer Loading and Tongue Weight
Trailer tongue weight (TW) is the amount of downward weight on the tongue. The tongue weight should be 10 to 15% of the total trailer weight. For example, a trailer with a gross weight of 1500 lbs. should have the load evenly distributed so that the tongue weight is 150 to 225 lbs.Too much tail weight may cause the trailer to weave back and forth becoming the trailer wagging the dog. Too much tongue weight can damage the hitch, as well as lower the rear and raise the front of the tow car. This condition will cause your vehicle to handle sloppy and brake much slower. Load the heaviest cargo on the trailer floor in front of the axle. A front to rear balance of 60% to 65% should provide a good tongue weight to pull smoothly. NEVER load a trailer for a negative or very neutral tongue weight as this can actually act to shove the rear of the tow car up during heavy breaking.



OK, Gary, here's the 2nd publication I found clarifying what I'm saying, since you didn't seem to like the U-Haul ad, somehow thinking an ugly looking trailer will make a difference. :roll:


So far you haven't shown me shit, where is something backing up what you say?? Good luck finding any credible source saying you should place your truckmount RIGHT OVER THE AXLE!!


I know, but I'm the dipshit, right? Maybe you should stick to tile, that's probably your forte, and the one area you may actually KNOW what you are talking about. You arguing with me about trailers and proper loading would be like me arguing with you about the proper way to seal grout. I'll guarantee you right now, I've hooked and loaded 100 times the trailers you have, and don't even try to compare the miles! When someone has more experience than you in a certain area, and the proof to back it up!!....It's best to listen rather than be a smart ass know it all.

 

[rotovacguy]

Additional towing information and cautions

See also: Jeep detailed towing info (12-page PDF file)



Never overload your vehicle beyond these design capacities. DaimlerChrysler cannot be responsible for brake performance if the Jeep vehicle and hydraulic brake systems are in any way connected. Do not interconnect the hydraulic brake system of your vehicle with that of the trailer. This could cause inadequate braking and possible personal injury.

When pulling a heavy load or driving a fully loaded vehicle use a premium unleaded fuel to help prevent spark knock. If spark knock persists, lighten the load. Otherwise, engine piston damage may result.

Be sure a trailer is loaded heavier in front, about 4% of Gross Trailer Weight (GTW). Loads balanced over the wheels or heavier in the rear cause the trailer to sway severely side to side which will cause loss of control of the vehicle and trailer. Failure to load trailers heavier in front is the cause of many trailer related accidents.

Gross Trailer Weight (GTW) means the weight of the trailer plus the weight of all cargo, consumables and equipment loaded on the trailer when in actual underway towing condition. The best way to measure GTW is to put your fully loaded trailer on a vehicle scale. The entire weight of the trailer must be supported by the scale.

A separate brake system for all trailers weighing over 1,000 pounds gross is recommended. (State laws should be checked for trailer brake requirements.)

Do not connect a trailer lighting system directly to the lighting system of your vehicle. Use an approved trailer wiring harness. Failure to do so could damage the vehicle electrical system and/or result in personal injury.

When hauling cargo or towing a trailer, do not overload your vehicle or trailer. Overloading can cause a loss of control, poor performance or damage to brakes, axle, engine, transmission,steering, suspension, body structure or tires.

Make certain that the load is secured in the trailer and will not shift during travel. It is recommended that any hitches installed on your vehicle be factory installed, or installed by a dealer using factory approved parts. Factory approved parts are specifically engineered with your vehicle’s performance in mind, including the possibility that it will be involved in an accident. Other hitches may not have been so engineered. Vehicle performance, including vehicle damage in an accident situation, may therefore be different.

If trailer towing is required and your vehicle is not equipped with a trailer tow package, the Mopar accessory towing harnesses are the only approved method to provide for trailer lights. These harnesses are designed to provide current to the trailer lights but bypass the module designed to monitor tail lights. Refer to the package instructions for details.

See your Owner’s Manual for additional important information regarding proper operation of this vehicle.







A little more food for thought, Gary, this makes 3, still waiting for your one!

 

[Gary T]

WoW, 4% of gross trailer weight up front sure ain't much. Certainly not all the weight up front like ya load a semi as you claim. THAT is what I have been saying all along. Did I say balanced over the axle? NO. Slightly forward as to maintain proper tongue weight. You can't load a small trailer like a semi you fool. Read my posts. All are in reference to maintaining PROPER tongue weight and balance.

Don't talk to me about loading trailers when you claim there is no difference between a semi and a small trailer and claim the physics don't change. HUgE difference.

Why didn't my trailer bounce today with a lawn tractor over the axle and proper tongue weight due to some floor machines up front? Sure didn't sway an inch, never has.

My tandem 12X8 has the tm over the axles and waste tank slightly forward of the axles.

That's my quote. Notice the waste tank slightly forward part? Guess what that does. Creates proper tongue weight.

Sorry John, I just now saw you question about my tandem gross weight cap. It is 4990lbs.

 

[rotovacguy]

WoW, 4% of gross trailer weight up front sure ain't much. Certainly not all the weight up front like ya load a semi as you claim. THAT is what I have been saying all along. Did I say balanced over the axle?[quote="Gary T":13o8fhs0]My tandem 12X8 has the tm over the axles

NO. Slightly forward as to maintain proper tongue weight. You can't load a small trailer like a semi you fool. Read my posts. All are in reference to maintaining PROPER tongue weight and balance.

Don't talk to me about loading trailers when you claim there is no difference between a semi and a small trailer and claim the physics don't change. HUgE difference.

Why didn't my trailer bounce today with a lawn tractor over the axle and proper tongue weight due to some floor machines up front? Sure didn't sway an inch, never has.

My tandem 12X8 has the tm over the axles

In a single axle trailer, you want most weight over the axle

That's my quote. Notice the waste tank slightly forward part? Guess what that does. Creates proper tongue weight.

Sorry John, I just now saw you question about my tandem gross weight cap. It is 4990lbs.[/quote:13o8fhs0]




Big deal, Gary. Your waste tank is not full 100 percent of the time, whereas your truckmount IS ALWAYS THERE!! That type of weight should NOT be mounted ON the axle!! You should have the truckmount which is a permanent weight, it does not change, as the main weight closer to the front, and your waste tank should be the counter weight, closer to the rear, not the way you have it now. When you are cruising around with an empty waste tank, that thing just sounds like it's unbalanced. Not sure how much your truckmount weighs, or how large of a waste tank you have, but EVERY publication I've read, every test I've taken, has said to place the heaviest weight, which would be your truckmount, because your waste tank is not 100% full, 100% of the time, FORWARD of the axle(s), NOT on them.


Do what you want, dude. Notice not one person on here has come forward saying they have theirs mounted ON the axle like you, or even said it's a wise thing to do? And how YOU are the only one here questioning John's layout? Show me some publications, like I did for you, that back up your point of view. So far every person I've talked to, and every publication I've posted backs up what I'm saying, NOT what you are. Better yet, let's see the finished product of yours. Got any pics?

 

[Gary T]

Look at any TMT trailer. They are all mounted the same as per trailer manufacturer specs. My trailer is balanced perfectly has never bounced or swayed. I did not question John, I merely said to be cautious. You are simply wrong. You say put all the weight forward as with a semi which is positively 100% wrong. I say(and so do all the manufacturers) balance the load with proper tongue weight as per specs, as per what you pulled and posted. That is what I have been saying moron. YOU CANNOT LOAD A SMALL TRAILER LIKE A FRIGGEN SEMI. EVEN your Jeep towing crap said 4% forward weight. Which is what I have been saying. Enough forward weight to produce proper tongue weight. Go Back And read dumbass.