570 I know you know

[Ray Burnfield]

To answer your question Marty no most of the distributors have no clue what to do with the Sapphires. They can sell them but they don't go through any training on them. When I took mine to Interlink they were all excited to work on it because they have never seen one yet. And of course you know you can't go to Sapphire directly with a problem because they expect the local distributors to handle it. So unless you know how to turn a wrench you have to go to a public forum so Sapphire will step in and then take care of the problem because it will make them look bad if they don't. Why these local suppliers are not required to have some kind of back ground training on the machines they sell is beyond me

That makes no sense. If the distributor has a problem getting you fixed, THEY can call the manufacturer and learn from it.
I think you would get faster results if you called them first.

 

[SamIam]

My son went down on April 6 for iicrc training he took the unit to be looked at my distributor made some assumptions and didn't check what I told him to.

Ray the line is bring it in will look at it!

I paid $300 for the fixes $600 for some other stuff another $600 the next day for my other machine and $ 700 for 2 guys to get certified.

 

[Ray Burnfield]

My son went down on April 6 for iicrc training he took the unit to be looked at my distributor made some assumptions and didn't check what I told him to.

Ray the line us bring it in will look at it!

I paid $300 for the fixes $600 for some other stuff another $600 the next day for my other machine and $ 700 for 2 guys to get certified

So you got both trucks fixed and 2 guys certified. What's the issue?
If you called to troubleshoot and wanted to fix it yourself the dealer should have helped you. We do it all the time. I know we are not the only one that provide that service for our customers.

 

[SamIam]

Well Ray money dosent grow on trees I have to make a second trip they could've fixed it the first time not only will I need to go down there to get it fixed that will be 2 hours driving round trip plus what ever time sitting around while they fix it. Since its warranty work it gets put on the back burner. You do understand the inconvience the cost of having a truck down? distributors act like money grows on trees and I can just pick some off. I'll be out $50.00 in gas plus time wasted. when the truck was there 3 weeks ago with basically the same complaint.

Distributors wonder why I fix things myself order parts not cause I need service for free! or warranty work its because I can order a part online install and never miss a days pay.

Ps acting like its my fault when there were other issues.

Like George said great machine great heat I want the temp switch to do what ots supposed to thats what I asked them to fix when my son took it in. they were distracted by something else and assumed what the problem was. now I have to make a second trip.

And by the way I said they called me and ask to schedule a time to go down there. i said i wouold when I have a day soon. I dont mind, I wasnt even complainmg about sapphire or the distributor. I was looking for an easy fix.

Thats why I posted hoping I could take off the temp relief and and it would be fine.

 

[Ray Burnfield]

I understand the frustration of being down as well as the cost.
Machines are machines. They are going to fail. The issue is how to get up and running so you can make money.
When I started in the industry, I started with a manufacturer . We would get calls from the end user and forward the call to the distributor.
Even though we have this forum to express our issues, it doesn't change the process.
One call to do it all!

 

[knoxclean]

Ray I'm sure they are willing to help but still you didn't answer my question. Why do the local suppliers who service the machines they sell not getting trained on the machines. I would think they would spend some time at the manufacture's plant to learn about the machines so when they come in for service they will have some background. It seems weird that they have to go by trial and error to learn about the little differences. I would think the manufactures would also benefit from this so they don't have to deal with distributors calling them asking them how to fix something or how this particular machine operates. They could give them heads up what common problems and things to look for. As it is today guys have to share their problems online and get feedback from others that have the same problem and learn about how to fix it from a backyard mechanic who has more experience with these new machines than most dealers that sell and repair them.

 

[Ray Burnfield]

I have sent many techs to a manufacturers service school. The thought that by attending these classes will teach a tech how to fix all the issues that occur is not realistic.
The factories design and build their machines. They teach you how the machines operate and how to perform standard maintenance. As far a fixing a mechanical failure, that's a different story.
The service department at the factory actually learns about their machines breaking down from us in the field. I can't tell you how many times that we have called for advise and we are told that it's the first time they have heard of the problem.
The service schools do have value and we will continue to send our techs to the classes. If for no other reason than to meet the people at the factory that we will be working with to help solve your problems.

 

[Mikey P]

Sapphire has service schools


I doubt a tear down and rebuild is included in the curriculum

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Sapphire has service schools


I doubt a tear down and rebuild is included in the curriculum

Even if it was it would not help in fixing a machine that is having issues

 

[Mikey P]

Ultimately it's the supplier who is responsible for training his techs to ne up todate as possible on how any of the units they sell function.
Im not aware of any of the Blue companies making it manditory that techs are schooled on the complete line up and revisions.


Maybe Mercedes, Tesla and BMW do that...


Actually, " ultimately" it's the owner who should be responsible for a machine that he or she feels comfortable working on..

Unless his supply shop is next door and is open 24/7.

 

[hogjowl]

There's something to be said for buying from the folks who build it. I had an issue this morning. Called TCS and they diagnosed it and told me how to fix it. There was no hem-hawing around and saying it was the first time they'd heard of it. When you build the same three machines for 30 years, there's no surprises.

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Well Ray money dosent grow on trees I have to make a second trip they could've fixed it the first time not only will I need to go down there to get it fixed that will be 2 hours driving round trip plus what ever time sitting around while they fix it. Since its warranty work it gets put on the back burner. You do understand the inconvience the cost of having a truck down? distributors act like money grows on trees and I can just pick some off. I'll be out $50.00 in gas plus time wasted. when the truck was there 3 weeks ago with basically the same complaint.

Distributors wonder why I fix things myself order parts not cause I need service for free! or warranty work its because I can order a part online install and never miss a days pay.

Ps acting like its my fault when there were other issues.

Like George said great machine great heat I want the temp switch to do what ots supposed to thats what I asked them to fix when my son took it in. they were distracted by something else and assumed what the problem was. now I have to make a second trip.

And by the way I said they called me and ask to schedule a time to go down there. i said i wouold when I have a day soon. I dont mind, I wasnt even complainmg about sapphire or the distributor. I was looking for an easy fix.

Thats why I posted hoping I could take off the temp relief and and it would be fine.

We have customers that are 4+ hours away from our shop. Some of them are mechanical and have the ability to fix the problem themselves. We help them troubleshoot and coach them on how to do the repair.
Many times that a problem is posted on the board the solution is the responders best guess.
As a distributor we work on machines every day. How often do the cleaners on this board fix machines?
Hopefully, not often

 

[Jim Martin]

you just can't know every machine out there...but you can get to know and understand the basic of them all...
not everyone is mechanically inclined so they rely on the people that they bought the unit from to be able to service..trouble shoot and repair there equipment so they can get it back to making money.......in a timely manner...not return trips because they didn't have a part or have no clue as of what to do..it cost them more and more money......

I was talking with a friend on the phone yesterday and the problem was not about a repair as much as it took 10 days to get a part that is common on most machines that should of already been in stock...

service and parts has been an issue for as long as I can remember..and not everyone is like Ray that sends there people out for any type of training...
that is why a lot of people are using the boards and other places first to try and get there machines back running......and in a lot of cases it is proving to work and help out...and at the same time others are seeing what is going on so now they know what to do and look for.....

 

[Ray Burnfield]

If the distributor can' t fix the problem, then I would post on the board. Not the other way around.
Dorrell at Sapphire is one of the head guy's in the company and he called the distributor to get the problem fixed.

 

[knoxclean]

This Thermal valve issue is a good example of how suppliers could benefit from the manufacture. Seems there are several machines judging from the posts that are having this issue. Does Sapphire send out a technical bulletin to notify the suppliers to look for this problem and there has been an issue with the valve? Maybe they do I don't know, just wondering.

 

[Jim Martin]

If the distributor can' t fix the problem, then I would post on the board. Not the other way around.
Dorrell at Sapphire is one of the head guy's in the company and he called the distributor to get the problem fixed.

Knowledge and information on the boards make it the number one place to start...they are becoming the number one assets

 

[Ray Burnfield]

There are always a lot of answers on the board. Which ones are the right ones?

 

[Jim Martin]

There are always a lot of answers on the board. Which ones are the right ones?

Most the time all of them..it is just a matter of finding which one you need for your problem

 

[Ray Burnfield]

So if I correctly understand.
1. State the issue on the board
2. Everyone that thinks they know what's wrong respond
3. The question is asked why the manufacturer doesn't respond
4. The mfg. rep finally step in and either tell you to call the distributor or they do it for you

 

[Jim Martin]

So if I correctly understand.
1. State the issue on the board
2. Everyone that thinks they know what's wrong respond
3. The question is asked why the manufacturer doesn't respond
4. The mfg. rep finally step in and either tell you to call the distributor or they do it for you

there are some very smart people on the boards that can trouble shoot and figure out a problem most of the time faster then having to take a machine down to a mechanic and watch him scratch his head and try to figure out what is what....

correct me if I am wrong but manufactures are not the people that we take our machines to...it is the distributors that we buy them from...and most distributor mechanics are not up to speed on machines like they need to be...all you have to do is read what people have to say about there experiences and you will see that it is not like what you are putting it out to be...so we/they rely on the boards.......

 

[jcooper]

Knowledge and information on the boards make it the number one place to start...they are becoming the number one assets

I agree, I can call Jim for example(and have - thanks again!) and get advice in minutes. Or post on the board and get lots of responses.
Someone over time has had the same TM/tool/whatever issue as me, it's guaranteed.


Calling or going to the disty is great if close and still under warranty... However, most of use don't have 10 year warranties. So, take a day off work and spend hundreds to have the disty fix or get advice here and fix it now.......

 

[Desk Jockey]

I agree, I can call Jim for example(and have - thanks again!) and get advice in minutes.

 

[SamIam]

I will get it taken in. I hope to get the temp switch working. When it does it sits at 195 low 220 med and 240 high thats heat control. As I unnderstand Jim it may be so hot it dumps alot, I do have an auto pummp out with some green chemicals, I can recycle to a tree and water that while cleaning win win.

My temp dial on my 405 works great, and I can fix most thing after spending 12 years with it. I do take it to a repair specialst when I cant or dont want to work on it.

ps this thing just make hot water I need a high flow on my hoss but then I'll use even more water.

 

[tubad sosad]

hey ray step back an second and look at sam's first post of this thread..... he was asking a question at 9 pm at night.

he's got 220 atm even on low so and the disty mechanic didn't solve the problem, he just saw a possible reason and that was that. bad mechanic if you ask me. Ray you sound like your guys would have not let sam's machine go before you knew for sure that all the problems where solved. but you are not sam's disty are you. not every disty does what you guys do....if they did this board would only get half the threads it does now.

Sam is mechanical so he wants to know how to fix something himself, that should not be held against him. but in order to fix it you have to know what is causing the problem.....that is why he started his thread. And he has every right to do that, so what if sapphire gets mad. Sam has a business to run and who knows how long his heat problem has been going on. it doesn't seem like he has had his sapp. machine very longt.

I just made up a saying and I think it is a good one.......smart is solving a problem and wisedom is preventing a problem from happening again. kinda like a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. never more true than when you can onlymake money if your (not you're...haha) TM is working. Sam like others here wants his equipment to not only work but work very well day in day out. and it seems like he will use any source to get that accomplished, nothing wrong with that. shed tears for his disty....NO shed tears for sapphire...NO

this board is great becasue problems get solved and issues are exposed. that is way it should be. Jim martin has a 570 and so do others so sam wanted their help....again at 9 pm at night. If I was the head of sapphire I would kick some butt at sam's disty because the mechanic NOT fixing the problem is the REAL problem, not sam starting this thread. also , good for you Ray for helping your custy over the phone. that is great CS.

ps.....look at all those pretty paragraphs, hahaha

 

[Mikey P]

Great thread, arguments aside.


I just can't figure out why this issue took so long to deal with...



Sam?

 

[tubad sosad]

So if I correctly understand.
1. State the issue on the board
2. Everyone that thinks they know what's wrong respond

and then wait for Jim martin or dan gardner, et. al. to show up and break the thread open. But ray also remember that who know how many lurkers are following this thread....it could be a couple hundred or maybe more. and maybe if they have a similar problem the answer for sam will also be an answer for them. This a board of members and lurkers. this is a board for problems and answers. this is a board for disty's and manufacturers. this is a kick ass board thanks to everybody.

 

[Vincent Feehan]

Empire Floor where he bought it does have poor service techs, the best guy left the day before I bought my 650 so I had to assist the instillation process. They aren't trained for sapphires I am guessing. Good luck Sam

 

[Ray Burnfield]

hey ray step back an second and look at sam's first post of this thread..... he was asking a question at 9 pm at night.

he's got 220 atm even on low so and the disty mechanic didn't solve the problem, he just saw a possible reason and that was that. bad mechanic if you ask me. Ray you sound like your guys would have not let sam's machine go before you knew for sure that all the problems where solved. but you are not sam's disty are you. not every disty does what you guys do....if they did this board would only get half the threads it does now.

Sam is mechanical so he wants to know how to fix something himself, that should not be held against him. but in order to fix it you have to know what is causing the problem.....that is why he started his thread. And he has every right to do that, so what if sapphire gets mad. Sam has a business to run and who knows how long his heat problem has been going on. it doesn't seem like he has had his sapp. machine very longt.

I just made up a saying and I think it is a good one.......smart is solving a problem and wisedom is preventing a problem from happening again. kinda like a ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. never more true than when you can onlymake money if your (not you're...haha) TM is working. Sam like others here wants his equipment to not only work but work very well day in day out. and it seems like he will use any source to get that accomplished, nothing wrong with that. shed tears for his disty....NO shed tears for sapphire...NO

this board is great becasue problems get solved and issues are exposed. that is way it should be. Jim martin has a 570 and so do others so sam wanted their help....again at 9 pm at night. If I was the head of sapphire I would kick some butt at sam's disty because the mechanic NOT fixing the problem is the REAL problem, not sam starting this thread. also , good for you Ray for helping your custy over the phone. that is great CS.

ps.....look at all those pretty paragraphs, hahaha

If your distributor is not taking care of you then you need to do whatever it takes to get running. My point is the first place I would try would be my distributor. They should be able to offer the quickest solution.

 

[Mikey P]

and then wait for Jim martin or dan gardner, et. al. to show up and break the thread open. But ray also remember that who know how many lurkers are following this thread....it could be a couple hundred or maybe more. and maybe if they have a similar problem the answer for sam will also be an answer for them. This a board of members and lurkers. this is a board for problems and answers. this is a board for disty's and manufacturers. this is a kick ass board thanks to everybody.

 

[jcooper]

Holy poop, that's a lot of strangers reading our posts... Are the "lurkers" people who stumble on a thread, say google search(whatever) or are they people with user names and passwords(members) that just don't post?

Most of the board is actually open to public, right?