About Scotchgard...

Stevie Bs

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Matt, my son, saturated a piece of carpet with undiluted Scotchgard that he planned to use an effectiveness demo in a presentation for a networking group he's in. Let it dry 100%. Poured Gatorade on it to test and it immediately stained the carpet.
Question: Is Scotchgard just bullshit? It works on the demo paper, but on carpet....

WTF? We're not going to sell it if it's worthless.
 

Cleanworks

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Matt, my son, saturated a piece of carpet with undiluted Scotchgard that he planned to use an effectiveness demo in a presentation for a networking group he's in. Let it dry 100%. Poured Gatorade on it to test and it immediately stained the carpet.
Question: Is Scotchgard just bullshit? It works on the demo paper, but on carpet....

WTF? We're not going to sell it if it's worthless.
Try using it as directed.
 

Stevie Bs

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Try using it as directed.
So it works better if it's diluted? That makes no damn sense.
He put it on full strength. Saturated the carpet. Dried the carpet with an air mover to 100% dry. Poured on Gatorade and Tea and it stained immediately.
I'm wondering why you bothered to comment?
 

Cleanworks

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So it works better if it's diluted? That makes no damn sense.
He put it on full strength. Saturated the carpet. Dried the carpet with an air mover to 100% dry. Poured on Gatorade and Tea and it stained immediately.
I'm wondering why you bothered to comment?
You need to dilute it 4-1 for wet carpet or 8-1 for dry carpet. You don't saturate it, you spray the recommended amount for the sqft. with an 8004 jet. Let cure for 48 hours before testing. When testing, don't expect lequids to bead up or run off. It will go between the yarns and soak through the backing but when you clean it, most things will come out. I have tested Scotchgard, Teflon and several no name products. All work to some degree. I find Teflon the best.
 
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D Luke

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Try using it as directed.
Actually I think Interlink tested protectors in the exact same way if I am remembering right.

Scotchgard seemed to have a recall a few months ago for bad product. Cleaners could get a refund but I was always curios how many actually refunded their customers who paid for application.

Anyways... Yes, carpet protector is a racket in more ways than one.
 
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D Luke

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Shouldn't be hard to find a link..................
Well (again, if I remember right) it was Scott posting on MB. Talking about dipping carpet samples into undiluted protector for testing.

You're the MB search master, so if it exists I have faith you can find it.
 

sassyotto

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a long time ago, we did a test on 7 different protectors. Used old carpet where the factory applied protector has long worn off.

cleaned entire carpet
sectioned off the carpet with tape
applied 7 different protectors to 7 different sections
put carpet in shop for 1 month (wear and soiling)
vacuumed to observe soil repellancy
spill different types of liquids (mustard, red dye, etc) and clean to observe stain resistance

There was one that stood out among them all. the national brands tested near the bottom.

Do this yourself. it will make it easier when your trying to sell it to a customer


BTW, I dont sell protector any longer as most of my customers have their carpets cleaned regularly and protector would not benefit them
 

Tom Forsythe

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I have tested protectors hundreds of times over the last 20 years. One thing to remember, mill protection uses the same fluorochemicals that we use. However, it is applied with high heat which provides better bonding. Directions for secondary market protectors are designed to replenish this mill protection. We instruct a much heavier application for our Maxim Advanced for wool since wool oriental rugs are not protected after construction and sporadically protected after sale.

Whenever I do a lab test, I use untreated nylon carpet squares. I gave up spraying protectors on carpet squares years ago because I doubted the results based on the probability of unequal protecting. Today, I mix up the protector at 1 to 4 and drop the carpet squares into the beaker for a few seconds to assure equal protection. My presupposition is that this level of application replicates mill level protection with any secondary market protectors. This way I can more confidently compare performance of different protectors.

It is also important to remember that virtually all protectors have had to change from a C8 to C6 chain in the last decade. In many cases the transition has resulted in different levels of performance to brand products. The transition for solvent protectors is the last group to transition from C8 to C6. Our industry is in the midst of this change. Our Maxim Fine Fabric made the change in raw material last spring.

Also protectors do 4 things: stain resistance, soil resistance, oil repellency and water repellency. No protector does all 4 things. The fiber or fabric should determine the protector used.
For example, Maxim Advanced and Advanced Protector provide excellent soil resistance which keeps carpet clean longer. Maxim Advanced does not provide surface repellency for water or oil, while Advanced Protector does provide excellent surface repellency. A test I did a few years ago, I treated samples for 2 protectors. One of them kept a drop of oil on the surface for all of 5 minutes and the Advance Protector kept that drop of oil on top for weeks in my lab. Oil immediately penetrates the surface for Maxim Advanced. However, the oil slides down the fiber and does not penetrate the fiber. Others provide a wet look as they penetrate the fiber. Maxim Advanced shines in stain resistance as it contains an acid dye resistor which fills open dye sites in nylon and wool. This limits stains as there is no place in the fiber to stain. Advanced Protector has good surface repellency against stains, however, the material will penetrate when a glass of koolaid falling from 3 feet will penetrate at the focus of impact but sit on the surface as drops spread.

The performance of protector degrades over time. Friction from foot traffic and beater bar vacuums will remove any protector over time. Cleaning also removes some protector in the process. This is why manufacturers of carpet suggest the reapplication of protector after cleaning. If protector did not work, carpet mills would not apply protectors to the carpet. Even Triexta manufacturers finally added mill protection. One brand calls it Everlast. Triexta fiber did not stain, but oil loved to bond to the fibers. They need the protector to limit this bonding of oils.
 

jcooper

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So it works better if it's diluted? That makes no damn sense.
He put it on full strength. Saturated the carpet. Dried the carpet with an air mover to 100% dry. Poured on Gatorade and Tea and it stained immediately.
I'm wondering why you bothered to comment?

I'm wondering why every post of yours turns into an argument.....


Ask for advice, get advice, belittle people giving advice because their opinion is different than yours.

Puzzling...
 

sOOper hero

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Thanks Tom.
I consider you one of the “good guys” in the biz
(Scott Warrington taught you well)

I’m one of those guys that considers spray on after market protectors as just “slightly” more than snake oil for carpet.
“Slightly” more ....at best

And it benefit$ carpet cleaner’s mo$t

Don’t have the same attitude for upl though...where I’ve actually seen the value to the consumer

If I can read between the lines of your post.....
I’m seeing after market spray on juice “ain’t all that” .
So you had to literally saturate samples to see any results worth a chit

How many yawks out there are doing that in the field ?

“Yes ma’am I can protect your carpet right, but it will be wet for days and crunchy when it finally dries”

“Or I can charge you a bundle of dough, not tell you the reality of the it and pretend it’s great for anything but my profit margins”


Can you tell I didn’t push the chit?
(Exception was upl for those that could benefit)

..L.T.A.
 

Cleanworks

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Where Scotchgard or other protectors make a difference is on commercial carpet. I sell more on commercial glue down than I do for residential. I have several buildings that I protect after every cleaning. Makes the cleaning much easier than ones that don't get protected. The results from applying protector are very subjective. It's hard to compare one building to another or one house to another, they all have different levels of soiling and foot traffic. There is absolutely no benefit in applying protector to an old worn out carpet. It does help to keeper newer carpets looking their best. I don't sell a lot of protector but where I do, its because I perceive a benefit to the customer.
 
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sOOper hero

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Read it again, He did that for consistency.

uh huh

applying "as directed" in ideal conditions
meaning;
a controlled environment
with any or every sprayer in the world
with no time constraints
on new carpet

....couldn't yield repeatable results .
so he had to immersion saturate


reading "between the lines" means .
Using it "as directed" ain't so great
and 97.88739% of CC'ers are selling "slightly" more than snake oil
....is what that all means


..L.T.A.
 
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Cleanworks

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uh huh

applying "as directed" in ideal conditions
meaning;
a controlled environment
with any or every sprayer in the world
with no time constraints
on new carpet

....couldn't yield repeatable results .
so he had to immersion saturate


reading "between the lines" means .
Using it "as directed" ain't so great
and 97.88739% of CC'ers are selling "slightly" more than snake oil
....is what that all means


..L.T.A.
No, you're way up a tree on this one. Using it as directed produces noticeable results. It's not going to cause liquids to run off. It's not a waterproofing agent. It helps prevent spills becoming stains as long as you act promptly. It also helps your vacuuming be more effective. Case in point, I had a nephew spill a can of grape pop on my freshly cleaned and tefloned carpet. I jumped up and grabbed a roll of paper towels, thinking, "that'll never come out". Amazingly, the whole thing came out with just the paper towels. Protector has been oversold for years with commercials like DuPont's cake hovering over the carpet and similar ads. It's better to have it than not to have it. Not going to change your life but may make it a little easier.
 

sassyotto

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does it work, doesnt it work? Do the testing and convince yourself. then you will be confident in either to sell it or not.

I dont.
 

sassyotto

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When someone asks about protector, I ask what their expectations are. Every time they say to keep the carpet clean longer. I tell them that applying protector is similar to waxing their car. It puts a protective coating on the paint. When it rains, the water beads up. But the car still gets dirty and you still have to wash it.

not to say that the factory applied protector doesnt perform well. but there is nothing I have found that can compare to it.

Point is, it doesnt meet customers expectations so Id rather be honest than lose a customer. I think thats why companies that push protector to make a buck lose so many customers.

I know a local company that has been around as long as I have. We each operate one truck. They push protector. I dont. Difference is I dont advertise and havent for over 19 years. They on the other hand are consistantly in every coupon book. Enough said.
 

ruff

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The least amount of chemicals introduced into your loyal and trusting customer's home, the better.
Protectors included.

The only protector I promote to my clients is for natural fiber and light colored upholstery. Mostly because they need as much protection (not to talk about celsestion intervention) as possible just to survive the first week :winky:

You gotta love designers.
 

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