Another wicking callback, what am I doing wrong?

gimmeagig

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Yesterday I cleaned a living room carpet. Light cream Nylon about 8 years old, with dog pee spots and some traffic wear. Other than that it was in OK shape.
I pre sprayed with Attack which is a High PH Enzyme prespray. I didn't go really deep because i did not want to saturate the pad. Then I extracted with CTI Last Step ( acid rinse) and did lots of drying passes followed by grooming the carpet and immediately putting on two commercial dryers. In the past I have had to go back a few times on other similar carpets.
I wanted to avoid any problems but my customer tells me that quite a few of the spots have come back.
In the past I have gone back in to re-clean using Prochem Utra Pac followed by Prochem All Fiber Deep Clean rinse. That has worked.
But this time I was so careful trying to avoid having to come back, but still no luck.
What am I doing wrong?
These stains that came back are supposed to be brownish in color. I haven't seen them yet.
Is there a stain remover for that that I don't have to extract?
On some stains I have used Groom Solutions Liquid Browning and Coffee Free which is Beta bisulfate. Smells nasty and the instructions say to rinse it out, but I have left it in and there is just a white powder left that can be vacuumed up. Worked OK.
The other thing is Stain magic. Sometimes it works, but CTI says that it can take between 1 and 8 hours for the full effect. And that I should extract it. That would mean I would have to come back yet another time. Have you guys used it without extracting it?
I know weird things can happen so I just want to check here to see what you guys think.
I don't have a rotary yet so that is out at this time for me.
I get really irritated when I see a problem coming and I do my best to take all the right steps and it doesn't help.
 
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Our industry would like to steer you towards more cleaning agents, more gadgets and endless procedures to combat piss deposits. The longer you clean the more you will find that you can't win all the battles against piss soiling in carpet. The backing of the carpet and the padding can and will stack the deck against you.

That being said you might try a large water claw on those spots (the first time) using a hydroforce to flood the spot and then slap the claw right on top to flush and flush. You can often flush out enough deposits and curb any visual wick backs. Remember, the carpet and padding were never engineered to be soiled by piss and the cleaned by normal cleaning procedures.
 

jcooper

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Turn your pressure down! More is not always better, was there an odor issue to begin with?


What ph is your rinse product? Try an acid rinse if you think it might wick or brown .
 

gimmeagig

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That's interesting, I have sort of gone the other way and just tried to hit the surface, hoping that that will leave the pad undisturbed. Sometimes with success but not always. I do have a water claw and I will try that. I have a product called At Last that I could spray on first. It's like liquid OSR. I probably should have done that anyway and charged extra..
You're right, people let their puppies piss on the carpets for months until they are housebroken and they expect us to fix it in a day. That ain't right :)
 

gimmeagig

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No Odor when I walked in but as I presprayed there was some. The Rinse i used was Pro's Choice Last Step it has a PH of 4.0. The other one I like is Prochem All Fiber Deep clean but that is higher at 5.2.
The pressure I used was 350 psi, on Olefin I sometimes go to 250. Should I have done that in this case?
 

jcooper

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No Odor when I walked in but as I presprayed there was some. The Rinse i used was Pro's Choice Last Step it has a PH of 4.0. The other one I like is Prochem All Fiber Deep clean but that is higher at 5.2.
The pressure I used was 350 psi, on Olefin I sometimes go to 250. Should I have done that in this case?


No, I'd say you did just fine, Roxy! 350 psi and low ph you should have been fine. Just one of those jobs, I guess...
 

gimmeagig

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So what about the next step? Groom solutions Browning and Coffee Free vs Stain Magic? I am thinking about just applying it and raking it in. Do you guys think that might be OK. On the Groom solutions I have in the past used a damp rag with the low PH rinse solution after.
 

Mikey P

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Is your wand pinching close on the pull back stroke?

Are your jets spraying evenly?

Is your blower protection filter free and clear?
 

SamIam

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gimmeagig

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Is your wand pinching close on the pull back stroke?

Are your jets spraying evenly?

Is your blower protection filter free and clear?

The Jets are spraying evenly and the blower filter is free. In fact i just bought a new blower for my machine so I'm really checking everything very thoroughly now. But I don't know what you mean by my wand pinching close on the backstroke...
I have a Prochem Quad with a Greenglide, and stainless jets. I'm pretty tall so I can keep the wand flat and the holes in contact with the carpet throughout the whole stroke. When I extract I often check the tube for heat. When it gets cold I move on. So I'm pretty sure i extract as much as possible.
 

Jim Martin

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A high enzyme pre spray is not the answer for removing urine.......you need to mix up some OSR and grab your water claw and flush it all out....

biggest things that cause wicking.........over wetting....or not completely removing the problem......
 
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SamIam

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A high enzyme pre spray is not the answer for removing urine.......you need to mix up some OSR and grab your water claw and flush it all out....

biggest things that cause wicking.........over wetting....or not completely removing the problem......


Unfortunately not all carpets illuminate under a black light and unless your pulling the carpet back and looking at the backing, or getting on your hands and knees to sniff every square inch you have to have alternative measures.

Unless a customers willing to pay for the extra service.

A quick solution would be a topical spray.

And let them know it may wick and if your not charging enough to make a second trip do so, or hit it when your in the area.

Make sure to let them know unless you pull the pad clean top and back of carpet there may some areas that reappear, and you'll come back to treat.

Also some stains are permanent don't over guarantee.


....
 

gimmeagig

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yes, I always pre vacuum. For this job I also added a little OSR to my prespray. I'm never really sure how these different chemicals interact with each other so I try not to become a "Bathtub Chemist" :)
 

Jim Martin

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OSR is really useless in a pre spray.....it needs to be mixed and poured onto the area.....it needs to sit for a little while and so it can do it's job....then extracted with a water claw.....
 

gimmeagig

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OSR is really useless in a pre spray.....it needs to be mixed and poured onto the area.....it needs to sit for a little while and so it can do it's job....then extracted with a water claw.....
I took a stain class a couple of years ago where the Pro's Choice Rep said that OSR also works a prespray booster. Is that not true?
 

Jim Martin

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Possible as a booster...I have never tried it but ...I have heard that before... but not effective for removing urine as a pre spray...
 

Buck1955

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I use Scotts encap coffee spray alot on situations like that. Have a bud that cleans a bar and swears by adding OSR to prespray. The carpet looks much better than when I cleaned it without OSR.
 

SamIam

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Probably cause your adding hydrogen peroxide and causing it to brighten up. Use to use energizer from chemspec to do the same thing.

It will actually remove or reduce yellowing from urine to.

But like Jim said OSR and a waterclaw, flush till no more yellow and if a stain remains then use USR.


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GeneMiller

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I disagree with the lowering of the pressure. You need more water not less to remove the stain . The dirtier the carpet especially on poly we crank it up. You can prevent the stain on the back of the carpet from wicking by just using water on the pull stroke going nice and slow. That way only the carpet gets wet as intended. I always add peroxide to my prespray when cleaning out urine. I can't remember the last time I had a redo for wicking.

Gene
 

hogjowl

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Seriously, what ever happened with putting that ... ground up sea shells ... powdered pu mis like stuff on stains to prevent wicking?

I thing it was standard practice way back ... like when Stockwell was young.

Did it not work?
 

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