Are you good at math? Look at these numbers.

[daniel@procarpet]

Ken for the record your smart as hell and a great business man.

 

[GeneMiller]

Daniel,

I'm not going to throw out numbers but I am an o/o and I hired a helper and make way more then before. I am talking NET not gross. YOu are making certain assumptions as to what will happen. Here are a few things to consider ,While he is cleaning carpets I can clean the furniture. we can dual clean furniture, which we did twice today. when the phone rings, the machine continues to make money with a helper. while he is cleaning up I sell fabric and carpet protector. I'm collecting a check and talking to the customer while he finishes the protectors. If i have to do all those things myself the time in the house will double depending on phone calls.

gene

 

[daniel@procarpet]

I am not saying don't use help.

Just use help on the jobs you need help on.

If you want help on every job to make your day easier, then get cheap help.

I personally like working with someone. Working alone sucks.

I just can't pay my help 40k per year.

Why do 300 more jobs to make just a little more?

 

[sweendogg]

My goal this year was to gross 150k.

I was going to pay my help 15 percent for jobs we are both present on and 20 percent on jobs he does solo and averages 17 percent of the gross pay.

In order for us to do this I was going to let him use my second truck to do rentals while I did other things.

I am going to assume running the second truck just a little will make the net go down to 40 percent from 43 percent but it is likley to be less than 40 percent. Your have to pay for your 2nd truck regardless if you use it or let it sit, you still have your insurance and have to maintain it. If you use it to make money, the job cost should pay for the expense of running it and any other overhead, your helper, and make you a profit. So while this van may net a little less than your main van. It won't drag the entire net down. The resulting net would be a weighted average.

40 percent of 150k is 60k dollars. Not bad.

Now working alone doing 8k per month or 96k keeping 60 percent will net 57600 dollars.

That means I will have to do 270 more jobs per year plus all the extra time to make 2400 more dollars.

150,000 - 96,000 = 54000/200 dollar job average ='s 270 more jobs.

That is a lot of jobs to make 2400 more dollars.

There is no way I am taking that business path.

I hope I didn't kill some of you guy's hopes, but the numbers don't lie.

I am disappointed I just realized this. I really like working with my friend. If he continues to work for a weekly salary then I can keep him on, but I know he needs to make more. His wife makes 90k per year. He should at least be able to make 40k but I can't pay that. I can but it doesn't make good business sense.

I am going to start a new thread to get some feedback on what I can do with this second truck and a new company.

That is where we can both make decent money and not hurt my profitability.

Seems to me that if you want to have a goal.. increase your individual job totals, and don't focus on the end net. And why doesn't it make good business sense to offer someone a well paying job where they can make atleast 40,000? It would make you work hard, you probably would have a harder working tech.. and a happier tech.


And Gene makes some great points as well.

 

[KevinL]

The job average is your bad math. With a helper you can bring up the job average and do 1 or 2 more jobs per day. Plug that in.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

The job average is your bad math. With a helper you can bring up the job average and do 1 or 2 more jobs per day. Plug that in.

Yes Kevin you are right. If you do 15 jobs per week and average 2500 or 500 five days per week that is a 166 and some change job average. If you do all the work yourself, work 45 weeks per year, and net 60 percent, you will make 67,500.

If you add just 100 dollars per day to 600 dollars, 3k per week, or a 200 dollar job average, you can pay someone 15 percent to help you on every job, work 45 weeks per year, have two days off assuming you have the marketing systems in place, and net 60,750 dollars minus employment taxes on your employee so yes less. You will make a litte less, but you will have help on all your jobs and get jobs done faster, but you will also need to raise your job average.

By the 15 percent of 135k is 20,250 dollars. I guess that is decent pay for a tech.

Cole says his guys make 125k making 35 percent. That is some BS. I would love to see how they do that.

I still think it is best to do what you can on your own, use help on bigger jobs, and enjoy your time off.

There is no right answer. Just do what feels right.

Good luck.

 

[Ron Werner]

Another way to look at it is if you can ave 600/day, 5 days a week, for 45 weeks, thats $135K
With a job ave of $300, that means 450 jobs a year and not big jobs either.
cut your advertising and focus on better clients and retaining clients and referrals, then you can net a lot more than $60K
If you work you busn for more profit, then if you add a second truck your profit could be far more than "normal" busn models

 

[Out of Character - 0]

Daniel, why do you waste your time driving all over town when you have such a small target number of jobs? Maybe your system needs some analysis? Why is your vision of what's possible so simple, are you for real?

Your creating your own reality, we all do even if we elect to model someone else. Yours reflects a lack of confidence stemming from the fact that you are subconsciously or semi consciously aware that you are not running your business as intelligently as someone who is so educated and physically capable as you could be.

Most people who think like you are not physically limited they are mentally limited, that's why you don't find yourself alone in your position yet have some telling you that your not right. If your just geographically challenged, then realize that isn't everybody and that you have the power to change that one.

 

[XTREME1]

I disagree with your numbers. You are not using a certain type of business model. You are bouncing from fixed cost moedl to variable model and that will never work also you seem to think carpet cleaning is the only thing, you really need to look outside the box. It was slow last week, kept busy enough but this weel was gangbusters with furniture, VCT and pile lifting after 5. Ran building to building last night doing small corporate kitchens and pile lifting rugs made more money from 5-8:30 than I ever could cleaning carpets and no one flinched at the price. Also, everyone says "my equipment is paid for" that doesn't matter that just means you started in the whole and didn't make any money until you $50,001 if you have 50g's in equipment. If you set up your business properly you should be selling that equipment and buying more after it is depriciated.

And yoakum you post in every thread I post in the MMM room and you say I have a mancrush because I call you on your bullshit. If it isn't bullshit please show the numbers, I want to learn. You say 35,30,35% respectively and I say show me how that can work

 

[dgargan]

I agree with Harper. It doesn't matter how you spin your numbers if you can't work they all add up to 0! Build some security into your business so there is always cash flow.

David

 

[Greg Cole]

That is one possibe scenerio, not fact Daniel. Many other ways to manipulate the numbers to reach whatever scenerio the author wants to achieve. All you have to do is manipulate the # of jobs, add a put a second man on the truck, do over 300k out of that one van and voila the net is much, much more than your scenerio.

I am not judging what is right or wrong for anyone, just don't fall into the trap of their being one right or wrong way to make a living in this business. The only fact that really exists is that or "facts" are really opinions- including mine :-)

Here are the facts. I can never do 300k with one truck even if I had twelve people on it because I spend half my time driving all over town. I said this thread was for owner ops or small multi truck businesses.

Here is a simple scenario and why my helper needs to find a new job except for making extra money helping me on big jobs.

I can do 10k per month on average and realistically make that happen, keep 60 percent, and net 72k per year.

Or I can have a full time helper that averages 17 percent, do an extra 2k per month which means 10 extra jobs, keep 43 percent and make 5160 dollars or 850 dollars less money. That is not taking into consideration the extra three dollar per gallon fuel, the added marketing and advertising costs, and maintenance so really I will have to do 12 more jobs per month to make 850 dollars less money repeat or not.

Ok let's go for big numbers. We bust ass and do 20k per month. I keep 43 percent or 8600 dollars. An owner op should be keeping 70 percent or close to it. If are trying to grow, then you will need to spend more on marketing so you will keep 60 percent. If you have part time help you will keep 55 percent. If you are established with part time help you will keep over 60 percent.

Ok with a helper doing 20k will net the owner 8600 per month which is awesome money assuming you have everything paid for. All tools, trucks, and equipment.

If you work hard and efficient and average 12k per month as a solo operator and keep 60 percent you will make 7200 dollars. That means you did 40 less jobs assuming you average 200 dollars per job to make 1400 dollars less.

The numbers don't lie.

The owner op that thinks they need a hose puller better think again. You better find a 50 dollar per day helper or do this gig solo because you will work twice as hard to make the same thing or less.

If you have a big truck payment, spend a thousand per month or more on advertising, have reasonable rates, you are doomed to fail or you might as welll work for Mcdonalds and cut grass on the side in the summer.

Your real profit comes from higher pricing.

WOW! you sound like someone who is burnt out! There is an old saying "The figures don't lie , but the liars figure".
There are many way to skin a cat. i believe that is what Ken was trying to get you to understand. The fact that you haven't figured out a way to be sucessful doesn't mean others can't. Naysayers are infectious. We call them 'Negative Nancies" and quickly remove them from our organization for a reason.

So let's talk your scenario: You want to do less jobs, work harder (no helper), and charge more money? OK- i get that. Sounds reasonable in a Recession! lol But let's talk an alternate scenario: Pay a helper $9-$10 per hour. After taxes, workers compensation, insurance, etc- lets say it comes to $13 per hour. $520 a week @36 weeks (only use during peak times)- (FYI: temp services can provide you good laborers if necessary.) I would imagine an owner operator is running a $275-$350 job average right? so... $275*3 extra jobs per week (jobs you would normally be unable to handle during peak)= $825*70% (remember your advertising is already a fixed expense covered by the other work)= $577.50 - $520.00(helper cost)= $57.50 profit AND you didn't work as hard.
WHILE IT SOUNDS GREAT TO DO "LESS JOBS", in FACT you are doing MORE work! .

 

[Hoody]

Daniel of that 70% take how much do you re-invest back into the company ?

 

[Greg Cole]

The job average is your bad math. With a helper you can bring up the job average and do 1 or 2 more jobs per day. Plug that in.

Yes Kevin you are right. If you do 15 jobs per week and average 2500 or 500 five days per week that is a 166 and some change job average. If you do all the work yourself, work 45 weeks per year, and net 60 percent, you will make 67,500.

If you add just 100 dollars per day to 600 dollars, 3k per week, or a 200 dollar job average, you can pay someone 15 percent to help you on every job, work 45 weeks per year, have two days off assuming you have the marketing systems in place, and net 60,750 dollars minus employment taxes on your employee so yes less. You will make a litte less, but you will have help on all your jobs and get jobs done faster, but you will also need to raise your job average.

By the 15 percent of 135k is 20,250 dollars. I guess that is decent pay for a tech.

Cole says his guys make 125k making 35 percent. That is some BS. I would love to see how they do that.

I still think it is best to do what you can on your own, use help on bigger jobs, and enjoy your time off.

There is no right answer. Just do what feels right.

Good luck.

WOW! your calculator doesn't work? ok I will help you
25jobs x $280 job average = $7,000per week x 52 weeks =
$364,000.00 revenue x .35 = $127,400.00
Damn- I'm from GA and even I can figure that out!

 

[Greg Cole]

I am not saying don't use help.

Just use help on the jobs you need help on.

If you want help on every job to make your day easier, then get cheap help.

I personally like working with someone. Working alone sucks.

I just can't pay my help 40k per year.

Why do 300 more jobs to make just a little more?

Agreed- helpers are worth $9-$12 per hour at most

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Greg when I get home I will help you with the numbers. I said 15 jobs per week. So your guys do 25 jobs per week with a 280 average. How do they manage that with a 87 dollar whole house special?

The job average is your bad math. With a helper you can bring up the job average and do 1 or 2 more jobs per day. Plug that in.

Yes Kevin you are right. If you do 15 jobs per week and average 2500 or 500 five days per week that is a 166 and some change job average. If you do all the work yourself, work 45 weeks per year, and net 60 percent, you will make 67,500.

If you add just 100 dollars per day to 600 dollars, 3k per week, or a 200 dollar job average, you can pay someone 15 percent to help you on every job, work 45 weeks per year, have two days off assuming you have the marketing systems in place, and net 60,750 dollars minus employment taxes on your employee so yes less. You will make a litte less, but you will have help on all your jobs and get jobs done faster, but you will also need to raise your job average.

By the 15 percent of 135k is 20,250 dollars. I guess that is decent pay for a tech.

Cole says his guys make 125k making 35 percent. That is some BS. I would love to see how they do that.

I still think it is best to do what you can on your own, use help on bigger jobs, and enjoy your time off.

There is no right answer. Just do what feels right.

Good luck.

WOW! your calculator doesn't work? ok I will help you
25jobs x $280 job average = $7,000per week x 52 weeks =
$364,000.00 revenue x .35 = $127,400.00
Damn- I'm from GA and even I can figure that out!

 

[daniel@procarpet]

So they do 360k to get 125k, but they have to pay all their expense out of that?

Your guys aren't doing those numbers unless they are crooks.

 

[Jamesh921]

Daniel,
There are so many variables in this business, AND so many various business models, you simply cannot tie "every" business into one "type/style/model".

I'm assuming you posted those numbers because they are YOUR numbers. That doesn't mean that they equate to everyone else's numbers.

There are certainly ways of making a 2 truck, 3 truck, 4 truck, etc.. work and be MORE profitable than an O/O doing 200k per year running the truck all by himself.

Also, you can have 3 employees plus the O/O running ONE truck doing over 350k per year and net more than your numbers state (72k per year).

It all depends on what kind of business you are "able" to run (able meaning - efficiency, market demands, productivity, commitment from the owner and employees, and much, much more).

I know of a company that ran its trucks 24 hours a day because their market "allowed" them that much business. Put your numbers to that business model and see how much the company/owner nets.

No disrespect intended here Daniel. I just don't think everyone fits into your (or your hypethetical) model.

James

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Daniel,
There are so many variables in this business, AND so many various business models, you simply cannot tie "every" business into one "type/style/model".

I'm assuming you posted those numbers because they are YOUR numbers. That doesn't mean that they equate to everyone else's numbers.

There are certainly ways of making a 2 truck, 3 truck, 4 truck, etc.. work and be MORE profitable than an O/O doing 200k per year running the truck all by himself.

Also, you can have 3 employees plus the O/O running ONE truck doing over 350k per year and net more than your numbers state (72k per year).

It all depends on what kind of business you are "able" to run (able meaning - efficiency, market demands, productivity, commitment from the owner and employees, and much, much more).

I know of a company that ran its trucks 24 hours a day because their market "allowed" them that much business. Put your numbers to that business model and see how much the company/owner nets.

No disrespect intended here Daniel. I just don't think everyone fits into your (or your hypethetical) model.

James

Agreed.

 

[Doug Cox]

Well Daniel, You've given me something not to work towards. It amazes me when some guys think they absolutely have to have a helper. Truth be told, they are just too lazy to do the work themselves, especially if all they shoot for is 150k WITH a helper. I do well above that mainly alone. You should really considered finding yourself a wife who is not too much of a lady who can help you out in a pinch. I doubt you work hard enough where you're at that you couldn't do it yourself.

 

[KevinL]

Ya, thats it. We're just lazy carpet cleaners.

 

[Doug Cox]

Why don't you tell us a little about you, Kevin?

 

[Chris A]

I love it when one day a month some of you guys try to ACT like businessmen...

 

[Walt]

I think Daniels numbers make perfect sence. Going from one truck doing well to three trucks, then back to one truck is almost cliche in my area. I've watched tons of guys do it my area.

Most owner operators have limited business skills and resources. Being honest about it, most of us were not the top in our class in business school or have previous experience running a large company. It's not that we lack sufficient brain power, but experience.

What I took from what Daniel wrote is - at first you will not make more money (net) by adding a helper or second truck. As your organization grows you will make less (net percentage). So you will have to have a much larger organization to make more money.

I think it's a good reality check. If you want to grow, you will have to work much harder and longer. It doesn't mean it's not worth the effort. It doesn't mean it's not possible. But if you like cleaning carpets as a job and like keeping it simple - maybe going big isn't the right answer.

 

[Willy P]

I came to this conclusion decades ago. Lisa W will call you an anti-success type. If you're booked solid and your customers love you and you work hard and stay fit and healthy and you have all the money you need, you can call it what you want. I call it messin with the Hook.

3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOyj4ciJk343]

Funny story Art- I was sitting in a crowded bar one night a long time ago when an older black gentleman came and sat down beside me. We started talking and buying each other a drink or 2 when he said"I've got to go to work". "If you're not busy tonight, come on by and check out the show" as he handed me a pair of tickets to a show at a venue near by. Mr. Oblivious figured out it was John Lee Hooker when he walked on stage. :roll: He was a class act and a heck of a nice guy.

 

[Newman]

This thread has produced my 2 nominations for quote of the year by our resident heavy hitters.

There is an old saying "The figures don't lie , but the liars figure".

Ps When I become committed to my own perspective it becomes my reality, a self fullfilled prophesy. When I open my mind and experience others views as well as mine, the whole world looks different.

Ken, How far can I open my mind before my brains fall out?

 

[Greg Cole]

So they do 360k to get 125k, but they have to pay all their expense out of that?

Your guys aren't doing those numbers unless they are crooks.

Never said they were netting that- only that I was stroking them checks for that- and obviously that isn't all of our contractors. Just high performers

 

[Greg Cole]

So they do 360k to get 125k, but they have to pay all their expense out of that?

Your guys aren't doing those numbers unless they are crooks.

Sorry that you don't have sales ability sunshine..... however, guys that repair, stretch, clean area rugs, high-end upholstery, air duct etc. easily generate that kind of revenue. Just because you are either too arrogant, naiive, or just plain ignorant to figure out how to do it ethically doesn't mean they are crooks.
There are easily dozens of O&O's here that pull 360k in gross revenue. Are you calling them crooks too?

 

[Greg Cole]

I love it when one day a month some of you guys try to ACT like businessmen...

LMAO- awesome!

 

[XTREME1]

I think he called 5-10 of Kens crews crooks

 

[Ken Snow]

There is an old saying something like "youth is wasted on the young". In my teens I knew all there was to know, in my 20's I was pretty sure I know more than anybody, in the my 30's I realized I wasn't the center of the universe, and in my 40's and now early 50's I know I don;t know squat.